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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Take 3: Vishnu 335i coupe Tuning Update



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      10-12-2006, 01:38 PM   #287
shiv@vishnu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresaMat
Hey Shiv,

When can we have a Houston Dyno day?!?!
lol... I'll be Houston this Saturday tuning a bunch of Evos. I'll come back soon if there is enough demand.

shiv
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      10-12-2006, 01:43 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
lol... I'll be Houston this Saturday tuning a bunch of Evos. I'll come back soon if there is enough demand.

shiv
Oh yeah? Where at? I might just have to stop by say whats up. I think there will definately be high demand. I know I have been advertising for ya .
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      10-12-2006, 01:47 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresaMat
Oh yeah? Where at? I might just have to stop by say whats up. I think there will definately be high demand. I know I have been advertising for ya .
Sure... I'll be at:
EngineLogics Inc.
12201 Dover St
Houston , TX 77031
Phone: 281-933-2262

Pretty much all day Saturday. Hope to see ya there..
-shiv
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      10-12-2006, 02:04 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
I've logged as much as 34-35mpg during extended highway cruise on the 380bhp map, FWIW.
That's HOT. That's better than what I was getting on my 2002 330xi when I was driving to Myrtle Beach last weekend.

I have to say, this is nothing short of impressive. Again, you guys deserve a big pat on the back.

Hey, how about we all chip in and buy these guys some beer?!
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      10-12-2006, 02:07 PM   #291
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Shiv,

Out of curiousity what kind of engine temps have you seen?
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      10-12-2006, 02:37 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
The fuel economy map, does almost the same things as the 380bhp map when it comes to maximizing fuel consumption. Both maps bump up timing and target learner A/F ratios during cruise/low load conditions. The only difference is that the 380bhp map builds boost at lower throttle angles. Which means that it feels much more "eager" to get up and go. As a result, it is more eager to consume fuel. If drive very casually (prolonged cruising), both the 380bhp map and the fuel economy map will deliver the same mpg. I've logged as much as 34-35mpg during extended highway cruise on the 380bhp map, FWIW.
Understood. So I guess the fuel economy map would build less boost then the stock setup at lower throttle angles? I would love that! I don't need 300bhp - 380bhp for my daily driving. But if I'm running late to a meeting and I need that extra kick, I could easily see myself pushing the 380bhp Vishnu "M" button! :rocks:

Sorry for bugging you but I have a few more questions:

-How low will the PSI be for the turbos on the fuel economy map? Can you turn the turbos off completely?
-How much will it cost to have the fuel economy map and the 380BHP map(I would like to be able to switch back and forth by using a switch)?
-BMW states that the 335i gets 19/29 (City/hwy). Obviously there's no sure answer, but under normal driving, (not heavy footed) what do you think the fuel economy map will get City/Hwy?

I appreciate your answers.
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      10-12-2006, 02:54 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
The fuel economy map, does almost the same things as the 380bhp map when it comes to maximizing fuel consumption. Both maps bump up timing and target learner A/F ratios during cruise/low load conditions. The only difference is that the 380bhp map builds boost at lower throttle angles. Which means that it feels much more "eager" to get up and go. As a result, it is more eager to consume fuel. If drive very casually (prolonged cruising), both the 380bhp map and the fuel economy map will deliver the same mpg. I've logged as much as 34-35mpg during extended highway cruise on the 380bhp map, FWIW.

You will not need any additional tuning. While custom tuning will always help to some degree, the car should have no problem making the advertised hp without custom tuning. Especially on 93oct fuels. The only question in my mind is whether the exhaust will fit on a sedan since we have only tested it on a coupe. I'm sure we'll cross that bridge soon during the early adopter turn-key phase.

cheers,
shiv
Shiv, sorry if I'm a bit confused...Is it ok for the Xede to be "on" all the time or is it only good to be "on" for short periods of time? Do you turn it on manually only when you want that extra boost (kind of like nitrous...ha ha)? And, if it's ok to have the Xede on all the time, then why have an on/off button?
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      10-12-2006, 02:57 PM   #294
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It is perfectly safe to have the XEDE on at all times, but it is a high performance modification that increases boost when the throttle is not wide open, thus the motor is always ready to go, and it feels more lively. This makes the engine not as fuel efficient, thus you could have a switch that changes the proramming on the XEDE to a different map (settings) and thus achieve different response from you car and better gas milage or less performance etc.
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      10-12-2006, 03:18 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarch1
It is perfectly safe to have the XEDE on at all times, but it is a high performance modification that increases boost when the throttle is not wide open, thus the motor is always ready to go, and it feels more lively. This makes the engine not as fuel efficient, thus you could have a switch that changes the proramming on the XEDE to a different map (settings) and thus achieve different response from you car and better gas milage or less performance etc.
That's what I thought, which makes sense. I know that the Auto/Step 335i Coupe is supposed to get approx. 20mpg City / 29mpg Hwy stock, which is very decent indeed. But, I'm used to 16-17mpg City and 21-22mpg Hwy. (19-20mpg mixed) in my Infiniti FX35, so anything over 20mpg City and 25mpg Hwy would be a refreshing change for me.
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      10-12-2006, 03:24 PM   #296
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Shiv, am I correct in that you are removing the secondary cats with the exhaust upgrade? I thought I read that you were but I just wanted verification. How will that affect emissions especially being in California and with their tight emissions regulations?
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      10-12-2006, 03:58 PM   #297
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When you go take your emissions certification, you will probably have to reinstall the stock system. Unless there could be a XEDE MAP that would somehow make the emissions pass (maybe a valet/less tuned map?)
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      10-12-2006, 04:01 PM   #298
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I am also concerned about the emissions testing. They have this new AirCheckTexas program and I am in one of the first counties to adopt it:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/act.htm
OBDII and TSI testing in my county.
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      10-12-2006, 04:30 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarch1
When you go take your emissions certification, you will probably have to reinstall the stock system. Unless there could be a XEDE MAP that would somehow make the emissions pass (maybe a valet/less tuned map?)
I'm not worried about the Xede mapping, etc. as the Xede unit will be easy to remove so the engine runs it's default programming from the factory I'm just curious if the new exhaust will not have the secondary cats in it. It would be a pain to have to swap out the exhaust whenever you need to go in for emissions check.

One thing that comes to mind is that Shiv mentioned a $3000 price tag. Later he mentioned that the Xede would only be about $1300 so that's close to $1700 for exhaust. Seems a little spendy unless it comes with highflow cats. What is "Secondary cat deletes"? Does that mean 'without the secondary cats'?
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      10-12-2006, 04:41 PM   #300
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I meant reinstall the stock exhaust.

And there either seems to be no need for a high flow system b/c the deletion of the cats in the back does a good enough job relieveing backpressure, or the deletion of the back cats is a "high flow" system.

And i think that 1700 for a exhaust is more than reasonable. I might be a fool on that one though.
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      10-12-2006, 05:07 PM   #301
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An exhaust that rumbles at idle and sings at high rpm would be preferred! And if the Cold Air Intake makes a sound that complements the engine and exhaust, you would elevate yourself to a new level among us! Do it for us, Shiv! We love you, man! Haha! Keep the mods coming!

Another question: How does your tuning compare to this?

http://www.dynocomp.com/bmw.php?view=bmw

Do they promise at the wheels or at the flywheel?

Above all, please keep the components affordable...
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      10-12-2006, 05:32 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STL30
An exhaust that rumbles at idle and sings at high rpm would be preferred! And if the Cold Air Intake makes a sound that complements the engine and exhaust, you would elevate yourself to a new level among us! Do it for us, Shiv! We love you, man! Haha! Keep the mods coming!

Another question: How does your tuning compare to this?

http://www.dynocomp.com/bmw.php?view=bmw

Do they promise at the wheels or at the flywheel?

Above all, please keep the components affordable...

I wouldnt trust anything posted on the Dyno-Comp website. The ECU they released for the 325i was not nearly as powerful as they stated. More or less they look like junk. Dyno-Comp=Junk, Shiv=Quality!

I cant wait shiv to see the final product. Shiv will you have any other "higher tunes" that would still allow us to run on pump gas (93 here) - like a Super High Performance Street tune (should only be used on occation) from what you have been saying about the 380bhp tune it sounds rock solid for full time use... maybe have it and a super street map too? Just a thought.

Mat
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      10-12-2006, 06:36 PM   #303
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Wow... so many questions, so little time. I'll try my best... here goes:

Quote:
Out of curiousity what kind of engine temps have you seen?
I've seen coolent temps as high at 215F (read through diagnostic tool). Oil temps (on dash gauge) have gone as high as 230F. Nothing out of the ordinary as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:
-How low will the PSI be for the turbos on the fuel economy map? Can you turn the turbos off completely?
-How much will it cost to have the fuel economy map and the 380BHP map(I would like to be able to switch back and forth by using a switch)?
-BMW states that the 335i gets 19/29 (City/hwy). Obviously there's no sure answer, but under normal driving, (not heavy footed) what do you think the fuel economy map will get City/Hwy?
Boost will never been less than 7-8psi at full throttle. However, the economy maps (as sstarch1 kindly explained) will induce full boost only at full throttle. Unlike the performance maps which will induce boost (11-12psi) at lower throttle angles (50-75%, depending on the engine speed). The turbos cannot be turned off completely without inducing a diagnostic code. And yeesh.. I can't think of ever wanting to "turn them off." The few times I've ran around on no-boost mode, I nearly fell asleep. Yuck. Felt like a sitting duck in traffic. Not a good feeling.

Off-the-shelf baseline maps are free. They can be downloaded off our website (once our BMW section is up). Only custom dyno tuned maps are $250 each. Unless you are local or come to one of our out-of-state dyno days, you will be running a free baseline map. It will come, pre-loaded, in the Xede. Two maps can also be loaded and toggled back and forth with a switch.

I'm never restrained enough to measure my city mpg. But on the highway, I routinely get 33-35mpg if I'm a good boy.

Quote:
Shiv, sorry if I'm a bit confused...Is it ok for the Xede to be "on" all the time or is it only good to be "on" for short periods of time? Do you turn it on manually only when you want that extra boost (kind of like nitrous...ha ha)? And, if it's ok to have the Xede on all the time, then why have an on/off button?
The Xede is on whenever the car is running. When you shut the car off, the Xede turns off. It's powered by switched ignition power. Just like any other ECU. There is no on/off button. The switch i think you are referring to is used to toggle back and forth between two distince maps (if so desired). This can be down with the car running. The switchover process takes 1-2 seconds.

Quote:
Shiv, am I correct in that you are removing the secondary cats with the exhaust upgrade? I thought I read that you were but I just wanted verification. How will that affect emissions especially being in California and with their tight emissions regulations?
We eliminate the second set of cats. You will still be left with the two cats in the downpipes. And, as such, you will not through any codes for catalyst inefficiency. However, removing or replacing any cats, for any reason, is frowned upon by the powers that be. So it's one of those "for off road use only" deal. Actually just about any modification, unless it offers CARB approved status, is technically a no-no for your car. This is why you see a lot of people taking the time to put their stock intakes/exhausts/etc,. back on their car every 4 years for their smog test.

Quote:
One thing that comes to mind is that Shiv mentioned a $3000 price tag. Later he mentioned that the Xede would only be about $1300 so that's close to $1700 for exhaust. Seems a little spendy unless it comes with highflow cats. What is "Secondary cat deletes"? Does that mean 'without the secondary cats'?
Our Suby and Evo exhausts are in the $1100-1200 range. Even ones with test-pipes (no cats). The BMW uses, quite literally, twice the material (twice the number of mufflers, twice as much pipe sections, twice the number of tips, twice the number of hangers, etc,.) So I don't see it being anything less than $1700. In fact, if it moves anywhere, it'll probably move upwards. And yes, it does remove the two cats located under the car, right under the shift lever area.

Quote:
Another question: How does your tuning compare to this?
http://www.dynocomp.com/bmw.php?view=bmw
Do they promise at the wheels or at the flywheel?
Above all, please keep the components affordable.
I have no idea what dynocomp offers or claims. We just focus on our own stuff

Cheers,
shiv
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      10-12-2006, 06:46 PM   #304
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10 sec 0-100 ?

shiv, I'm guessing that your car can do the 1/4 mile around 12.5 - 12.7 sec area correct?
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      10-12-2006, 06:59 PM   #305
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Honestly, I think the pricing and the service Shiv has shown thus far is more than top notch. The exhuast, although may seem expensive, is not unrealistic. You bought a BMW. If you wanted modifications that were cheap, you should buy a Honda. Less people work on BMW's, and the engineering has to be more precise, resulting in higher pricing. I cannot immagine someone complainning about getting 80bhp for $3000. Sure its not cheap, but again, you drive a BMW.

I believe Shiv's pricing places in a perfect place to convince a lot of people that would be on the fence about the idea.

Good job Shiv.


P.S. - I would call it the V button.
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      10-12-2006, 07:05 PM   #306
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Vish, you've got us all wired over here in anticipatio, but i'm firing this question for my dad since I was showing him some of the strides you were making. He's on the waiting list for the new 997 turbo and was wondering if you guys were going to make that a project as you did the 996?
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      10-12-2006, 07:23 PM   #307
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Shiv,

Thanks for the updates. Am I correct in assuming that unlike the other ecu tuners, when one buys the xede it is a hardware purchase and as such allows transfer to another private party if the origional owner were to turn in his leased car, sell his car, total his car in a street race or for any other reason? If so, I see this as a major advantage of your tune compared to most of the others that are likely to show up on the scene, especially considering the obvious quality and performance gains and excellent price point.

Second question, would it be possible to have your car smogged so we could get an idea of whether or not the stock exhaust would need to be re-installed prior to smog cert-ing, at least us in Cali?
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      10-12-2006, 07:34 PM   #308
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To anyone with issues on price... come on $3000 is NOT bad for this mod at all. Look at the power it gives! Plus its very hard to beat anyone who is truely in touch with the community. Shiv seems like a very stand up guy. How often do yall talk in a format like this to Dinan or any other major tuners? Plus the $$/HP ratio IMO seems very reasonable for a BMW. Not to put down other tuners but Dinan charges $1600 for his exhaust setup on the 330i and I doubt it gives anything near the performance increase (yes I know different cars etc - but if I am going to pay $$ for something like it I want it to actually make a difference in power not just sound).

In my opinion I have no problem even paying a little extra for quality parts and service. We are BMW owners... this is a big reason why we bought BMWs.


Shiv - I know this is a little off topic but what are your thoughts on the shifter? Im wondering if a better shifter like say the Rogue Engineering would really make a difference especially with this kinda power.
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