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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Take 3: Vishnu 335i coupe Tuning Update



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      10-12-2006, 07:52 PM   #309
sflgator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Wow... so many questions, so little time. I'll try my best... here goes:

I'm never restrained enough to measure my city mpg. But on the highway, I routinely get 33-35mpg if I'm a good boy.

The Xede is on whenever the car is running. When you shut the car off, the Xede turns off. It's powered by switched ignition power. Just like any other ECU. There is no on/off button. The switch i think you are referring to is used to toggle back and forth between two distince maps (if so desired). This can be down with the car running. The switchover process takes 1-2 seconds. Cheers,
shiv
Shiv,

1. The 33-35mpg Hwy...is that real mpg or just what the computer is registering at the time while cruising? Also, is that with the tuned ECU power map or the economy/regular stock ECU map? And, I take it that's mainly been in 6th gear?

2. The toggle switch that takes 1-2 seconds...can this be done on the fly, or do you have to stop and trun off the car, flip the toggle switch and start the car again?

Thanks again!
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      10-12-2006, 07:58 PM   #310
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Quote:
shiv, I'm guessing that your car can do the 1/4 mile around 12.5 - 12.7 sec area correct?
Beats me. That really depends on the launch and track surface I'd imagine. Car and Driver tested our EVO a couple of years back and it logged a 0-60mph in 3.4 seconds. Another tester managed a time of 3.1 seconds. C&D was tested on the straight of Michigan Motor Speedway (regular track surface). While the other was tested on a drag strip with tons of VHT on the surface and with tire pressures reduced several psi. That's why I don't particularly care of standing start acceleration figures. Too much fudge factor.

Quote:
P.S. - I would call it the V button.
Done. V-Button it is. Courtesy of poldim.

Quote:
Vish, you've got us all wired over here in anticipatio, but i'm firing this question for my dad since I was showing him some of the strides you were making. He's on the waiting list for the new 997 turbo and was wondering if you guys were going to make that a project as you did the 996?
We never really made my 996 into a project. To this day, it's still stock with the exception of suspension. If it had turbos, however, it would be hard to keep me from messing with it. I'd love to play around with the 997 eventually. But now, we're devoting most of our time to the 335i. Once we get it squared away, it's we'll start with the next project. But that wont be for some time. And even then, we'll still support it just as we will from day 1.

Quote:
Thanks for the updates. Am I correct in assuming that unlike the other ecu tuners, when one buys the xede it is a hardware purchase and as such allows transfer to another private party if the origional owner were to turn in his leased car, sell his car, total his car in a street race or for any other reason? If so, I see this as a major advantage of your tune compared to most of the others that are likely to show up on the scene, especially considering the obvious quality and performance gains and excellent price point.
Yes, you are correct. The Xede can be removed and sold or installed on a new car. The Xede that we are using in the 335i should work on ALL BMWs. Given appropriate mapping, of course. And yes, this has always been one of the major advantages the Xede has over a reflash which, for the most part, isn't transferrable or even readily removable.

Quote:
Second question, would it be possible to have your car smogged so we could get an idea of whether or not the stock exhaust would need to be re-installed prior to smog cert-ing, at least us in Cali?
That's a great idea. I'll run a pre-test on Monday and will post up the results. It sure would be nice if it sniffs clean with our exhaust system.

Quote:
Shiv - I know this is a little off topic but what are your thoughts on the shifter? Im wondering if a better shifter like say the Rogue Engineering would really make a difference especially with this kinda power.
I kinda like the factory shifter. But then again, i haven't tried anything else. The problem i have with a lot of short throw shifters is that the gates get too bunch up close together which can create a problem during hard cornering when the transmission moves around in its mounts. Short throw shifters also naturally increase shift effort which may be ok in a Formula Atlantic race car. But in a daily driver, I like things that come easy. But that's just me...

Quote:
1. The 33-35mpg Hwy...is that real mpg or just what the computer is registering at the time while cruising? Also, is that with the tuned ECU power map or the economy/regular stock ECU map? And, I take it that's mainly been in 6th gear?
The 33-35mpg number comes from the dash. I haven't really taken the time or had the patience to actually run through more than a few gallons of gas while staying off boost. In fact, this car has probably seen more boost in its 4000 miles than most cars will see in 50,000 miles. That mileage was logged with the performance map and a very light right foot. And yes, that's mainly in 5th and 6th gear on the highway doing 60-80mph. Absolutely no boost.

Quote:
2. The toggle switch that takes 1-2 seconds...can this be done on the fly, or do you have to stop and trun off the car, flip the toggle switch and start the car again?
It can be done on the fly while the car is being driven. It would be a real drag if you had to turn off the car to changes maps, no?

Cheers,
Shiv
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      10-12-2006, 08:17 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poldim
You bought a BMW. If you wanted modifications that were cheap, you should buy a Honda.
Not to get off topic, but this sentence is the largest load of crap I have ever seen. I guess you have never seen how much quality JDM parts cost.
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      10-12-2006, 08:51 PM   #312
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Shiv, any plans to do anything with the downpipes of this car? Also, what about the intercooler. Being from Houston, its hot and humid, heat soak looks like it will be an issue with the stock intercooler. TIA
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      10-12-2006, 08:59 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedBMW
Not to get off topic, but this sentence is the largest load of crap I have ever seen. I guess you have never seen how much quality JDM parts cost.

Haha, yea. Companies making parts for german's sell full exhaust systems for $1300 and people complain, when my catback and headers ran me a net of $2200. At least on a 335i, getting an extra 70 horsepower out of a tune will cost me at MOST $1500, when getting that same 70hp on a NA honda would require that $5000 supercharging bill. This guy's been sitting in rice-ville too long. Real modded japanese cars cost mega big bucks. Try getting a real Mugen CF intake for under $700

Boosted! I just noticed you drive an S2K. That was going to be my next car but I couldnt get my legs to fit. A real heartbreaker. Nice to see a fellow honda fan on the boards.
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      10-12-2006, 09:08 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrygarcia
Shiv, any plans to do anything with the downpipes of this car? Also, what about the intercooler. Being from Houston, its hot and humid, heat soak looks like it will be an issue with the stock intercooler. TIA
The downpipes and intercooler/induction system are next in line for testing. It's just a matter of time....

-shiv
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      10-12-2006, 09:13 PM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Yes, you are correct. The Xede can be removed and sold or installed on a new car. The Xede that we are using in the 335i should work on ALL BMWs. Given appropriate mapping, of course. And yes, this has always been one of the major advantages the Xede has over a reflash which, for the most part, isn't transferrable or even readily removable.

The 33-35mpg number comes from the dash. I haven't really taken the time or had the patience to actually run through more than a few gallons of gas while staying off boost. In fact, this car has probably seen more boost in its 4000 miles than most cars will see in 50,000 miles. That mileage was logged with the performance map and a very light right foot. And yes, that's mainly in 5th and 6th gear on the highway doing 60-80mph. Absolutely no boost.

It can be done on the fly while the car is being driven. It would be a real drag if you had to turn off the car to changes maps, no?

Cheers,
Shiv
Well, hurry up already ...my 335i Coupe should arrive here in S. FL in about 6 weeks, and I may order the Xede (as a stand-alone mod; sorry, no aftermarket exhaust necessary for me). I'm sure you'll post up when it's available for order. Thanks.

btw - sorry, one more question before I forget. You say how stealthy the Xede is since it's intercepting the signals to the ECU (so the ECU "thinks" it's using it's stock map), but also you mention how the actual Xede unit would be placed under the hood (with the wires running to the ECU)...wouldn't the BMW service technicians see the Xede when doing routine maintenance (especially if they're diagnosing a possible mechanical/engine problem) and wouldn't this be a "problem" if let's say you had them checking out an issue under the warranty? Thank you.
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      10-12-2006, 09:19 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
The downpipes and intercooler/induction system are next in line for testing. It's just a matter of time....

-shiv
Nice! This is just what I wanted to hear.
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      10-12-2006, 10:06 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflgator
sorry, one more question before I forget. You say how stealthy the Xede is since it's intercepting the signals to the ECU (so the ECU "thinks" it's using it's stock map), but also you mention how the actual Xede unit would be placed under the hood (with the wires running to the ECU)...wouldn't the BMW service technicians see the Xede when doing routine maintenance (especially if they're diagnosing a possible mechanical/engine problem) and wouldn't this be a "problem" if let's say you had them checking out an issue under the warranty? Thank you.
The XEDE can be installed/removed in 15 minuted (with a little bit of practice). It is very obvious if it is actually in the car, but when removed, it is like it is never there.




Side note: Shiv, im know you have gotten all the praises in the world on e90post.com without even releasing a product yet, but again i must say, that you involvement in answering our questions, concerns, and sharing your knowledge is priceless when compared to the very pricey amount paid for a 335i. We all really appreciate the time you spend reading our posts and aswering out quivering concerns if our warranty is going to be violated, while you are out there hacking apart your beautiful car.

Again, thank you and keep up the good work.
I know i have enjoyed reading everything you post on here, even if it is answers to questions i know my self, it is great to see an answer from a experienced tuner, like your self.

.....now if you could get atleast 500hp out of this bad boy...i MIGHT be impressed...
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      10-13-2006, 12:11 AM   #318
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As far as I am concerned the price for what is being offered is Great! Especially with the interaction that Shiv is giving everyone.. On the flipside of the coin I am married and will never hear the end of it if I put $3k+ into making my car faster! She thinks no matter what l do, I'll want something different in a few years....shes probably right =0)~ It was a stretch to get her to let me buy another new car allready let alone a $50k+ one.... Anyways I WILL find a way to get this done, but I also think if the XEDE is available as a standalone purchase, That is what I would lean towards....... Another reason for the hesitation is the fact that I have Leased (1st time) this car for 30 months.... I tell myself..."If I can make this car as fast as my vette was and do all these other little upgrades that I will be happy enough with it to buy it out and extend the warranty . I would drive it for like 95k miles and then get a new car"................ But, I know me and I think in 30 months I'll want an M or maybe somethin else...... SOOO as you can see I am hesitant to drop 3k+ on my short lived toy.....

Shiv,
What will be the loss in performance without the exhaust??
Also in an earlier post u said u guys kind of threw together a cat back exhaust for you initial tests.... Would it be pretty cheap to have an exhaust place rig something up like that and still get some of the performance benifit or is that what u guys are offering? (im not really knowledgable on this if you cant tell but we all gota start somewhere)
AND, there is an update that people have talked about getting from BMW that possibly hurts performance.... Do you aggree with what has been said and would you reccomend getting the update done or not?

THANKS!!!!!

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      10-13-2006, 12:15 AM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedBMW
Not to get off topic, but this sentence is the largest load of crap I have ever seen. I guess you have never seen how much quality JDM parts cost.
I've spent nearly half my car's vaule into modifying my old Integra, I know more than my fair share about quality parts. However, the bulk of the JDM interested market does not buy quality parts and buy shit.

That money pit is the main reason I'm not doing the same thing to my E90.
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      10-13-2006, 12:17 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger
Haha, yea. Companies making parts for german's sell full exhaust systems for $1300 and people complain, when my catback and headers ran me a net of $2200. At least on a 335i, getting an extra 70 horsepower out of a tune will cost me at MOST $1500, when getting that same 70hp on a NA honda would require that $5000 supercharging bill. This guy's been sitting in rice-ville too long. Real modded japanese cars cost mega big bucks. Try getting a real Mugen CF intake for under $700

Boosted! I just noticed you drive an S2K. That was going to be my next car but I couldnt get my legs to fit. A real heartbreaker. Nice to see a fellow honda fan on the boards.
Know the facts before running your mouth.
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      10-13-2006, 12:33 AM   #321
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Keep the look stock

Shiv,
I like the fact you are keeping appearances simple on your product. I personally would never buy if other people could easily discern that I did not just drive my car out of the factory. Keep it classy my friend. THANKS
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      10-13-2006, 02:04 AM   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger
Haha, yea. Companies making parts for german's sell full exhaust systems for $1300 and people complain, when my catback and headers ran me a net of $2200. At least on a 335i, getting an extra 70 horsepower out of a tune will cost me at MOST $1500, when getting that same 70hp on a NA honda would require that $5000 supercharging bill. This guy's been sitting in rice-ville too long. Real modded japanese cars cost mega big bucks. Try getting a real Mugen CF intake for under $700
Apples and oranges. 70 hp out of a lighter Honda will make you a lot faster than 70 hp on a BMW (depending on the car, see 800-1000+ lbs). For Hondas, to get 70 hp, you just do a motor swap (for under 4k). :P

Oh yeah, the Mugen CF intake is purely bling and as most Mugen products, overpriced (I have a Comptech intake on my S2000).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedBMW
Not to get off topic, but this sentence is the largest load of crap I have ever seen. I guess you have never seen how much quality JDM parts cost.
Part of the expensive price is due to where the product is made and availability. Anyways, back to topic.

Shiv - Do you have any plans for a dyno report for those who don't use an aftermarket exhaust system? Like another poster here, one of my reasons picking the 335i is I don't want it to be an aftermarket money pit like I have done with some of my previous cars. It provides plenty of power stock, but an aftermarket ecu add-on could be very tempting due to the bang for buck power.
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      10-13-2006, 10:06 AM   #323
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@ shiv
Hi I`m from germany and sorry for my english.
I will get my 335i in 4 weeks and I thinking about chiptuning for my car. So I`m very interested to read this threat. I just called some german tuner (for example evotech) and they told me, that the 335i has a new controller (by siemens) and it is very difficulty to tune this. You need knowledge in "can bus-tuning".
The other very interesting think they will informed me is that there are already different engines. The special engine for the press will have a magnesium engine block with 330hp and the costumer engine is without magnesium.
Do you know something about this informations and do you know somebody in germany to tune my engine?
thx
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      10-13-2006, 10:37 AM   #324
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Wow, I really created an issue over price here. That was not intended.

I have no problem with what Shiv is doing. In fact I plan on trying to convince my wife that $3000 is a good thing for me to spend on the new $50k car that I just bought however I will need to wait for the sedan version of the exhaust to come out.

That said, the whole reason I brought up the exhaust question was two fold. One was my concern for getting the car to pass the emissions tests. Now up here in Washington if the car is relatively new they just plug it into and OBDC reader and if no codes pop up they pass it (at least that's what happened to me during my tests) however they do have the right to do a sniff test. I don't want to have to change the exhaust out "just in case" when I need to have my car checked. If Shiv does a sniff test next week like he indicated he will and it passes california emissions without those extra cats then I'll be happy as pie. The other reason I was questioning the price is I'm used to modding good ol american muscle. I can put in a whole mandrel bent dual exhaust system (including headers) for less then $1700 so it seemed a little spendy to me for just cat back system without secondary high flow cats but if you peeps here are saying it's in line with other exhaust mods on other foreign cars then I'll take your word for it.

Tom
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      10-13-2006, 10:59 AM   #325
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I'm not going to hijack Shiv's thread with this non sense.


Shiv, can the switch between maps (pressing of the button/moving the toggle) be performed which driving or does the xede have to be off (ignition off) in order to swap the setting?
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      10-13-2006, 11:11 AM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poldim
I'm not going to hijack Shiv's thread with this non sense.


Shiv, can the switch between maps (pressing of the button/moving the toggle) be performed which driving or does the xede have to be off (ignition off) in order to swap the setting?
Shiv already answered this question on page 15...

2. The toggle switch that takes 1-2 seconds...can this be done on the fly, or do you have to stop and trun off the car, flip the toggle switch and start the car again?

It can be done on the fly while the car is being driven. It would be a real drag if you had to turn off the car to changes maps, no?

Cheers,
Shiv
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      10-13-2006, 02:23 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poldim
I'm not going to hijack Shiv's thread with this non sense.


Shiv, can the switch between maps (pressing of the button/moving the toggle) be performed which driving or does the xede have to be off (ignition off) in order to swap the setting?

Also, a lot of Xede questions can be answered on their site..
http://www.vishnutuning.com/xede_support_evo.htm

Granted this is for the EVO but my belief is that the Xede functions for the 335 will not differ that far from the offerings for the Evo, Sti, etc.
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      10-13-2006, 02:39 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddanny
@ shiv
Hi I`m from germany and sorry for my english.
I will get my 335i in 4 weeks and I thinking about chiptuning for my car. So I`m very interested to read this threat. I just called some german tuner (for example evotech) and they told me, that the 335i has a new controller (by siemens) and it is very difficulty to tune this. You need knowledge in "can bus-tuning".
The other very interesting think they will informed me is that there are already different engines. The special engine for the press will have a magnesium engine block with 330hp and the costumer engine is without magnesium.
Do you know something about this informations and do you know somebody in germany to tune my engine?
thx
Welcome here Nachbar

Nobody is answering my questions in this thread and I think no one is going to answer yours...
I'm waiting on Alpina/Wetterauer or some other GERMAN tuner, or maybe DMS from the UK to chiptune the 335i.

EU and US are a bit different in 'tuning' I guess.

But where did you get that story about the press cars have more PS and have magnesium blocks just like the normal valvetronic 330i 258PS?

MfrGr
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      10-13-2006, 02:53 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poldim
I've spent nearly half my car's vaule into modifying my old Integra, I know more than my fair share about quality parts. However, the bulk of the JDM interested market does not buy quality parts and buy shit.

That money pit is the main reason I'm not doing the same thing to my E90.
Well, then I guess your in the same boat as me. So far I have put over 20k into my s2000. Maybe S2K guys are a different crowd, but most buy real JDM parts that usually cost more then european spec parts. I use to own an '03 325ci so I have been on both sides, that is the only reason why I commented on what you said. I'm also looking to get into a car (E92) that I can be happy with through basic bolt-ons, if that's possible.
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      10-13-2006, 03:06 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood
Welcome here Nachbar

Nobody is answering my questions in this thread and I think no one is going to answer yours...
I'm waiting on Alpina/Wetterauer or some other GERMAN tuner, or maybe DMS from the UK to chiptune the 335i.

EU and US are a bit different in 'tuning' I guess.

But where did you get that story about the press cars have more PS and have magnesium blocks just like the normal valvetronic 330i 258PS?

MfrGr
Robin

Hi Robin,
I got the answer from evotech in germany and the have the info from evotech/ dynocomp from USA.
Appreciate 0
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