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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Take 3: Vishnu 335i coupe Tuning Update



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      11-14-2006, 06:52 PM   #837
shiv@vishnu
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Quick update:

I'm going to be installing and tuning Xedes on 3 or 4 335is in the next 7-10 days. One of them with a cat-back exhaust. All of them with the updated ECU update from the dealership. It should be interesting

-shiv
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      11-14-2006, 08:16 PM   #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Quick update:

I'm going to be installing and tuning Xedes on 3 or 4 335is in the next 7-10 days. One of them with a cat-back exhaust. All of them with the updated ECU update from the dealership. It should be interesting

-shiv
awesome, im looking forward to seeing the results! im wondering if you figured out an easy way to wire the xede into the cockpit and what the switch/control unit looks like? will the installs you do in the next 7-10 days be the final setup or will they just be rigged up until you get production units made? if you have any pictures please post them up but a description of the switch and method of install would be almost as good!
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      11-14-2006, 09:27 PM   #839
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Shiv, you say updated ECU from dealership? i've heard that some had to go back and get reflashed and noticed power drop. Will the Xede do the same for cars that have and have not been reflashed at the dealer? how do i know if i need to be reflashed at the dealer?
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      11-14-2006, 10:47 PM   #840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgannonloans
Shiv, you say updated ECU from dealership? i've heard that some had to go back and get reflashed and noticed power drop. Will the Xede do the same for cars that have and have not been reflashed at the dealer? how do i know if i need to be reflashed at the dealer?
I am not completely up to date on that story, but i remember that being not a huge issue, or an old wives tale, but i might be wrong.


Shiv...any chance these customers are from the board...or could be asked to post a review once installed, customer feedback is the #1 selling point in my book.
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      11-14-2006, 11:45 PM   #841
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hmm.....shiv hasnt answered. well anyway im still getting my 335i i just hope someone can explain these discrepancies to me before i drop whatever it is $1000, 2000 etc. on the reflash. Caveat Emptor(Buyer Beware).
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      11-14-2006, 11:53 PM   #842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJapan
hmm.....shiv hasnt answered. well anyway im still getting my 335i i just hope someone can explain these discrepancies to me before i drop whatever it is $1000, 2000 etc. on the reflash. Caveat Emptor(Buyer Beware).
Not answered what (huh)?
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      11-14-2006, 11:58 PM   #843
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Shiv.. How much is going to be affected because I have auto? Can we get any more vids up soon? Maybe make a new thread with all of them. Keep it up shiv.
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      11-15-2006, 12:04 AM   #844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMW
Shiv.. How much is going to be affected because I have auto? Can we get any more vids up soon? Maybe make a new thread with all of them. Keep it up shiv.
I have to even dyno test a steptronic'd 335i, let alone tune one. I don't expect there to be any issues other than the automatic transmission robbing a bit of the power. % gains should be similiar though. Been a bit too buys to take videos. But i'll take some of next few tuning jobs.

-shiv
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      11-15-2006, 12:16 AM   #845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJapan
I too am curious about this tuning as i am waiting on a 335i. I also currently own an evo and a wrx. I read that Dustin says his evo has 450hp with all bolt ons available except garret GT series turbo upgrade. Yet Shiv says Dustin's Evo is retaining the stock Evo 8 turbo which is a TD05HR-16G6-9.8T with the 9.8cm² turbine housing. This particular turbo WILL NOT support 450hp. What explains the discrepancy in this?
On our awd dyno, and on race gas, Dustin's evo makes 20whp more than all the stock Porsche 996 Twin Turbos we've tested. Or more than twice of a stock 2.0 WRX. Or 65% more than a stock Sti. These are facts and I cannot change it. These results aren't atypical either. Other Evos have made similar numbers. The factory Evo turbo isn't suitable for that power level due to airflow limitations. But with the help of race gas, and the huge bump in thermal efficiency it provides, those power levels are certainly attainable. Albeit with the obvious shortcomings (octane requirement, turbo longevity, thermal loads, etc,.) On 91oct, the car makes 50hp less.

Shiv
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      11-15-2006, 01:15 AM   #846
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shiv the reason i ask isnt to accuse you of exaggerating the facts but the evo/dsm tuners ive talked to say that with the 9.8 it wont support 450hp even with bolt ons. i know you've been in the biz longer than i have im just curious because i'd like to take my evo as far as it can go feasibly for a street car so keeping the stock turbo with maybe an upgraded 10.5 housing would be nice. the responses ive gotten on the evo forums all agree that the 10.5 gets it closer but still not quite. but anyway all that aside, realistically what do you think the stock 335i block can handle powerwise with everyone untouched oil pan to valve cover?
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      11-15-2006, 01:24 AM   #847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJapan
shiv the reason i ask isnt to accuse you of exaggerating the facts but the evo/dsm tuners ive talked to say that with the 9.8 it wont support 450hp even with bolt ons. i know you've been in the biz longer than i have im just curious because i'd like to take my evo as far as it can go feasibly for a street car so keeping the stock turbo with maybe an upgraded 10.5 housing would be nice. the responses ive gotten on the evo forums all agree that the 10.5 gets it closer but still not quite. but anyway all that aside, realistically what do you think the stock 335i block can handle powerwise with everyone untouched oil pan to valve cover?
If the people you are talking to are saying that the evo turbo can't support 450bhp, they are wrong. Plain and simple. Tons of evidence showing otherwise. But I suspect they are saying that it can't make that kind of power on pump gas- which is true. For that, you'd need at least a GT3071 or preferably a 3076.

The jury is out on the what max power the block can support. With the factory turbos being the bottleneck, it is unlikely that we'll ever approach the torque-induced breaking point. Leave it to the crazies who will be bolting on big single turbo upgrades to test the upward limits.

-Shiv
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      11-15-2006, 02:39 AM   #848
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haha consider me to be one of those crazies shiv, would you happen to know what flange the stock turbos use? i heard they're mitsubishi turbos so does that make them compatible with say 2 large 16g or 20g turbos? and if someone ::cough:: were to have a 335i at your shop with the required break in miles(what is it, 25 miles?) would you be able to tune it? err....EDIT: i mean with the turbos installed(if they fit).
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      11-15-2006, 11:32 AM   #849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
If the people you are talking to are saying that the evo turbo can't support 450bhp, they are wrong. Plain and simple. Tons of evidence showing otherwise. But I suspect they are saying that it can't make that kind of power on pump gas- which is true. For that, you'd need at least a GT3071 or preferably a 3076.

The jury is out on the what max power the block can support. With the factory turbos being the bottleneck, it is unlikely that we'll ever approach the torque-induced breaking point. Leave it to the crazies who will be bolting on big single turbo upgrades to test the upward limits.

-Shiv
what do you think the stock 335 block can safely handle (max)?
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      11-15-2006, 12:37 PM   #850
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my question got skipped again? will the Xede make everyones car run to the Xedes tune or will cars with the dealer reflash and wo be different?
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      11-15-2006, 02:24 PM   #851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgannonloans
Shiv, you say updated ECU from dealership? i've heard that some had to go back and get reflashed and noticed power drop. Will the Xede do the same for cars that have and have not been reflashed at the dealer? how do i know if i need to be reflashed at the dealer?

The post you are talking about was answered recently. The BMW tech forgot to reset something after a program update and it created a reduction in power. One off issue. Not something we have to worry about unless the BMW techs forget this ofter.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33045

K
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      11-15-2006, 02:46 PM   #852
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OK Cool thx
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      11-15-2006, 04:18 PM   #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJapan
haha consider me to be one of those crazies shiv, would you happen to know what flange the stock turbos use? i heard they're mitsubishi turbos so does that make them compatible with say 2 large 16g or 20g turbos? and if someone ::cough:: were to have a 335i at your shop with the required break in miles(what is it, 25 miles?) would you be able to tune it? err....EDIT: i mean with the turbos installed(if they fit).


I think somewhere along the line it was stated that the turbo's used in the 335 are made of a 'special' material that is able to withstand above average temperatures. So it is assumed that the aftermarket turbo's would be able to handle that much heat (more expensive). Beyond that, two 16g's would provide enormous backpressure (lots of lag and much higher boost threshold) but would probably produce insane amounts peak power. Even then, the response of the stock turbo's on the 335 would be a lot to contend with if you didn't have gob's of power to back up all of that lag. The ideal turbo upgrade will include turbo's that probably aren't that much larger than stock (most likely). Driveability will be important for the vast majority of the BMW aftermarket.

I am always interested in as much testing as possible. I would never own a 900whp 335 or 600whp for that matter but it would be great to watch one race.
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      11-15-2006, 04:30 PM   #854
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It sure would!
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      11-15-2006, 06:33 PM   #855
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Supra....?

well...all in all, im just waiting for Shiv to anounce.... "this could be the next Supra"


any comments Shiv....?

and just for the record.... i am one of those that would love to own a 600hp 335i
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      11-15-2006, 07:12 PM   #856
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and just for the record.... i am one of those that would love to own a 600hp 335i
600 whp

Are you willing to suffer the consequences? I can't say that most 335 owners are going to go that far beyond reflash and the standard bolt-on's. No doubt this car will attract those who love to modify their cars, but I think that those seeking tons of power will be the minority (though they will be on the boards for sure). My point is that 600whp is going to require a major sacrifice on the part of the owner.
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Drivers over here get their license with MT. Most cars have MT, and all of my friends can drive MT. My chick had an auto once and she sold it in less than a year because she didn't like it. The only replacement to MT for me would be shifters in the steering wheel (ala F1)! Still MT but no clutch.
I don't drink,smoke,eat in my car, ever. And I don't hold the hand of my GF of her thigh or anything else unless there is traffic or stoped in a traffic light. When the car moves, I'm meant to drive it both hands... and god I do it with pleasure

Kudos!
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      11-15-2006, 07:46 PM   #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJapan
haha consider me to be one of those crazies shiv, would you happen to know what flange the stock turbos use? i heard they're mitsubishi turbos so does that make them compatible with say 2 large 16g or 20g turbos? and if someone ::cough:: were to have a 335i at your shop with the required break in miles(what is it, 25 miles?) would you be able to tune it? err....EDIT: i mean with the turbos installed(if they fit).
The turbos are integrated with the exhaust manifolds so there is no such thing as "bolting" another Mitsubishi turbo on, unfortunately. Plus, I don't see how one could fit anything much bigger than the standard turbos without quite a bit of work. Not saying that it isn't possible. If if someone with a deep enough wallet asked me to build them a 600bhp 335i, we'd do it. It may take several months, a fully built-motor, upgraded transmission, and somewhere around $30k. I sure as heck wouldn't do it to my own car!

-shiv
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      11-15-2006, 10:22 PM   #858
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Shiv,

I don't live far from your shop and I'm interested in getting your system (that guy's "adictive" article is pretty convincing). The 335 is my daily driver, and so I ordered it with an auto. Do you have any info on whether or not this auto can take the power?
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