E90Post
 


GT Haus
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > 335i Turbos - Stage 2 now installed and reviewed!!



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-05-2009, 10:46 AM   #45
ar design
 
ar design's Avatar
 
Drives: '86 325ES+S50, '01 TT QC
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver, CO

Posts: 4,408
iTrader: (9)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to ar design Send a message via MSN to ar design Send a message via Yahoo to ar design
Lookin good Tony!
ar design is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 10:55 AM   #46
Sniz
Lieutenant General
 
Sniz's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 335 - gone // e36 M3 turbo
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ellicott City, MD

Posts: 10,564
iTrader: (1)

nice stuff!

looking forward to your impressions.

will you get this dyno'd again for comparison?
__________________
Sniz is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 10:58 AM   #47
E92Fan
Moderator
 
E92Fan's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: .

Posts: 5,492
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
nice stuff!

looking forward to your impressions.

will you get this dyno'd again for comparison?
The car has to be remapped again to take into account the new turbo performance so it'll be on the dyno again. I don't know how hard I want to push the car - theoretically I should be able to get over 500bhp quite easily, but I'm not really keen on the idea as having 470bhp with room to spare is more in keeping with the idea of durability!
E92Fan is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 11:04 AM   #48
E92Fan
Moderator
 
E92Fan's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: .

Posts: 5,492
iTrader: (0)

More pictures -

TD have machined completely new wastegate bushes from stainless billet to replace the worn bushes. These will be much more durable!


New wastegate bush machined from stainless billet

Name:  New wastegate bush, machined from stainless billett - small.jpg
Views: 2339
Size:  345.0 KB

New wastegate bush installed

Name:  New wastegate bush from the other side - small.jpg
Views: 2406
Size:  420.6 KB
E92Fan is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 11:04 AM   #49
creepy coupe
Major General
 
creepy coupe's Avatar
 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK

Posts: 8,171
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2009 335i  [0.00]
Jeez, you must have ragged that poor car everywhere tone
creepy coupe is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 11:11 AM   #50
E92Fan
Moderator
 
E92Fan's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: .

Posts: 5,492
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by creepy coupe View Post
Jeez, you must have ragged that poor car everywhere tone
Not really... I think it's the 150+ laps of the 'Ring that's done it
Still, someone's got to find out what the factory parts can handle, right?!
E92Fan is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 11:11 AM   #51
marconi118
Captain
 
Drives: 06/07 e93 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: europe

Posts: 938
iTrader: (0)

TD are really doing a great job! new wastegate rod bushing, wastegate seat etc!!!

BMW should have done al this to solve the turbo rattling problem!!!!

Inpatient to have more pictures about the wastegate seat and the flap...
marconi118 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 11:13 AM   #52
E92Fan
Moderator
 
E92Fan's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: .

Posts: 5,492
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
TD are really doing a great job! new wastegate rod bushing, wastegate seat etc!!!

BMW should have done al this to solve the turbo rattling problem!!!!

Inpatient to have more pictures about the wastegate seat and the flap...
BMW can't do anything like this, because it requires a complete redesign of the turbo by Mitsubishi. The amount of work gone into it is just too costly for an OEM fix.
E92Fan is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 11:18 AM   #53
joec500
Brigadier General
 
Drives: it has 4 wheels
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 3,004
iTrader: (10)

I might just buy a set of used turbos and send these over to have them re-built when my turbos go kaboom!
joec500 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 11:20 AM   #54
marconi118
Captain
 
Drives: 06/07 e93 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: europe

Posts: 938
iTrader: (0)

strange thet mitsu designed such a crap turbo, normally they are doing well

why TD isn't installing a bigger exhaust turbine wheel? Only bend the OEM fins?

Really hope the spooling time won't be increased by the mod... pulling hard from 1500rpm till 7K would be insane
marconi118 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 11:44 AM   #55
E92Fan
Moderator
 
E92Fan's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: .

Posts: 5,492
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
strange thet mitsu designed such a crap turbo, normally they are doing well

why TD isn't installing a bigger exhaust turbine wheel? Only bend the OEM fins?

Really hope the spooling time won't be increased by the mod... pulling hard from 1500rpm till 7K would be insane

You're right, only the compressor wheel has been enlarged and not the exhaust turbine wheel. The exhaust turbine hasn't been enlarged because it's really hard to get a bigger exhaust wheel into the housing for a few reasons. Firstly the size of the shaft, journal bearings and thrust bearings would all be different so as well as sourcing a new shaft you would need to find something that has the same outside-diameter journal bearings. This would be like searching for a needle in a hay stack. The second would be trying to re-profile the turbine housing would be very difficult especially for a one off. It would be possible in batches but then you come back to the first problem of finding the right size parts!

And just to clarify one point - the OEM blades aren't "bent" - Turbo Dynamics use a cylindrical grinder to remove literally a very tiny slice of material
E92Fan is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 11:53 AM   #56
marconi118
Captain
 
Drives: 06/07 e93 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: europe

Posts: 938
iTrader: (0)

WOW this is really High tech processing.

Hopefully they keep all the tools for future use, I think if everything goes well for you I will go to them with my spare turbo set

Do they specify the extra performance of the turbos cfm psi and spool time?
Or is it a surprise when you will test it?
marconi118 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 12:09 PM   #57
ianthegreat
Colonel
 
ianthegreat's Avatar
 
Drives: n54
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh/Houston

Posts: 2,314
iTrader: (1)

excellent, good luck
ianthegreat is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 12:14 PM   #58
Alpina_B3_Lux
Colonel
 
Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
 
Drives: Audi R8 V10, BMW 330d E91 LCI
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Germany

Posts: 2,434
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 335i  [4.39]
Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
The car has to be remapped again to take into account the new turbo performance so it'll be on the dyno again. I don't know how hard I want to push the car - theoretically I should be able to get over 500bhp quite easily, but I'm not really keen on the idea as having 470bhp with room to spare is more in keeping with the idea of durability!
Looks all really neat and professional. Inspires confidence and makes me wish to have that, too!

One question: Can you drive the car with the upgraded turbos without the remap? Or do you believe that will trigger a limp mode? I assume you will have to drive the car to DMS for the remap, don't you?

Alpina_B3_Lux
__________________
Audi R8 V10; sold: BMW 335i
Alpina_B3_Lux is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 12:14 PM   #59
marconi118
Captain
 
Drives: 06/07 e93 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: europe

Posts: 938
iTrader: (0)

what about the ASR turbine? only intoxicating info?

Name:  ASR Turbine Wheels - small.jpg
Views: 1514
Size:  329.0 KB
marconi118 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 12:16 PM   #60
Nick.CBR
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA

Posts: 1,646
iTrader: (6)

This is awesome info. I love the good images of the progress. I really believe this level of attn to detail will win customers down the road. It's great to see the quality of their work.

On another note - it will be interesting to see what the next few years brings with regard to the mitsu turbos used on the N54 engine. I wonder if BMW reads threads like these - if I were an engineer, I would be very very interested in long term wear on a single engine that has that many laps 'round the 'ring. It sounds like the motor is ok though and it's more an issue with the turbo's?

Thanks!

Nick
Nick.CBR is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 12:35 PM   #61
Alpina_B3_Lux
Colonel
 
Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
 
Drives: Audi R8 V10, BMW 330d E91 LCI
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Germany

Posts: 2,434
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 335i  [4.39]
Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
what about the ASR turbine? only intoxicating info?
ASR is using Garrett ball bearing turbos and have not upgraded the Mitsubishi ones like Turbo Dynamics do. But there's no detailed info about what they have done, at least so far and to my knowledge.

Alpina_B3_Lux
__________________
Audi R8 V10; sold: BMW 335i
Alpina_B3_Lux is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 12:44 PM   #62
marconi118
Captain
 
Drives: 06/07 e93 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: europe

Posts: 938
iTrader: (0)

from the picture found on this forum it seems the housings are the same as OEM

indeed ball bearing would be better for the TD upgrade?!
marconi118 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 12:45 PM   #63
E92Fan
Moderator
 
E92Fan's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: .

Posts: 5,492
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
what about the ASR turbine? only intoxicating info?
From Turbo Dynamics -

"Looking at the ASR turbine wheel, they have changed the CHRA (core assembly) for a Garrett CHRA which not only means a lot of machining and probably a welded adaptor ring on the turbine housing. It also means that you would have to change the oil and water lines which I can imagine isn't easy!"

I'm not a turbo expert by any stretch in terms of the design and components, so I'll leave it at that for now!
E92Fan is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 12:55 PM   #64
E92Fan
Moderator
 
E92Fan's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: .

Posts: 5,492
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick.CBR View Post
This is awesome info. I love the good images of the progress. I really believe this level of attn to detail will win customers down the road. It's great to see the quality of their work.

On another note - it will be interesting to see what the next few years brings with regard to the mitsu turbos used on the N54 engine. I wonder if BMW reads threads like these - if I were an engineer, I would be very very interested in long term wear on a single engine that has that many laps 'round the 'ring. It sounds like the motor is ok though and it's more an issue with the turbo's?

Thanks!

Nick

The engine itself on my car is in pristine condition, and the head is totally clean too. The main issue is the degradation of the turbos as you have already seen. And yes, BMW UK are well aware of the condition of my car
E92Fan is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 01:00 PM   #65
Yahoo
Captain
 
Drives: 335i e91 LCI msport
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincolnshire

Posts: 826
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post

One question: Can you drive the car with the upgraded turbos without the remap? Or do you believe that will trigger a limp mode? I assume you will have to drive the car to DMS for the remap, don't you?

Alpina_B3_Lux
I have read a thread stating that ASR have driven their car using the standard map on their upgraded turbos completely limp mode free - this was prior to Vishnu's official involvement I believe.

They apparently made some gains over stock, but clearly no where near the potential of the upgrade.
Yahoo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2009, 01:07 PM   #66
MIKEYBMW1
GT3
 
MIKEYBMW1's Avatar
 
Drives: PORSCHE GT3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: LINCOLNSHIRE UK

Posts: 1,679
iTrader: (1)

Looks very impressive Tony, car will fly with all that power ,my old 335i was very rapid and that was with 370bhp God knows what 470bhp will be like from the 335i ,absolute rocket ship I assume.
__________________
PORSCHE GT3
MIKEYBMW1 is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
boost, compressor, overhaul, turbine, turbo, turbo upgrade, turbocharger, upgrade

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:46 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST