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      06-21-2014, 02:25 PM   #1
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Notes on a 2011 335d with HiFi and a PnP MS-8/center speaker install

Customer shows up with an MS-8 bought at eBay and asks for an install in his HiFi system. I suggest a PnP install with a center speaker addition and nothing more. No more than 2 hours of labor.

This is pretty much what happened in 2 hours...

MS-8 pre-wired with Kenwood KFC-1065S center speaker (excellent sensitivity, silk dome tweeter):


Run center speaker cable to OEM amp connector at trunk:




Insert center speaker cable into OEM amp connector into slots 39 (positive) and 40 (negative). Pin slots numbers are molded into black OEM amp connector.







Center speaker OEM grill (Double Scoop: 51457123750 Single Scoop: 51457123749)


Plug MS-8 directly to OEM amp connector:


That was it.

Notes:

1) No battery connection required. MS-8 keeps its settings/calibration in memory after 12V constant is removed. So much that previous owner's settings/calibration were still present after install.

This allows the MS-8 to be connected directly to the OEM amp connector 12V, ground and remote turn on. The OEM connector 12V line is not 100% constant, it goes to "sleep" to slightly above 0V after 8-15 minutes.

2) MS-8 output configuration and settings in this particular install are:

- CH1 = Left front
- CH2 = Right front
- CH3 = Left rear
- CH4 = Right rear
- CH5 = Center
- CH6 = Left woofer
- CH7 = Right woofer
- CH8 = Not used

Suggested setup:
- skip input setup
- Sub = 2, subsonic at 50Hz at 18dB slope, low pass at 175Hz at 12dB slope
- Front = 1-way
- Center = 1-way, 175Hz at 18dB
- Sides = 1-way, 175Hz at 18dB

Calibration volume = -25dB
Main volume after calibration = -6dB

There will be no sound until MS-8 is completely setup.

How it sounded?

Just great considering all the OEM speakers and a center speaker add-on powered by just the MS-8. No tricks for bass/midbass; for MS-8 installs with PnP harness I use the subwoofer outputs instead of front 2-way. What this does is to force the MS-8 to send the bass to the underseat woofers after calibration. Otherwise setting the front as 2-way confuses the MS-8 microphone with the location of the underseat woofers during calibration, causing the apparent lack of midbass.

The result was a lot of bass from the get go, so much that I had to reduce the subwoofer level adjustment to almost minimum. This is another benefit of setting the underseat woofers as subwoofers -output can be directly adjusted with the subwoofer level in the MS-8 menu. The E9x HiFi OEM woofers with aftermarket power are really impressive with just 30W RMS. As a side note, the F30 HiFi OEM woofers are inferior to the E9x's in output and bass depth just because they are shallower, IMO.

Voices and midbass from the doors, center and rear speakers were loud and clear. The Logic7 implementation in the MS-8 is more aggressive in stereo separation, front stage presence and surround effects than the OEM Logic7. Depending on what is your opinion about surround DSP effects, what the MS-8 Logic7 does would be better or worse than OEM.

For sure, the customer loved it.
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      06-22-2014, 12:00 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic
Customer shows up with an MS-8 bought at eBay and asks for an install in his HiFi system. I suggest a PnP install with a center speaker addition and nothing more. No more than 2 hours of labor.

This is pretty much what happened in 2 hours...

MS-8 pre-wired with Kenwood KFC-1065S center speaker (excellent sensitivity, silk dome tweeter):


Run center speaker cable to OEM amp connector at trunk:




Insert center speaker cable into OEM amp connector into slots 39 (positive) and 40 (negative). Pin slots numbers are molded into black OEM amp connector.







Center speaker OEM grill (Double Scoop: 51457123750 Single Scoop: 51457123749)


Plug MS-8 directly to OEM amp connector:


That was it.

Notes:

1) No battery connection required. MS-8 keeps its settings/calibration in memory after 12V constant is removed. So much that previous owner's settings/calibration were still present after install.

This allows the MS-8 to be connected directly to the OEM amp connector 12V, ground and remote turn on. The OEM connector 12V line is not 100% constant, it goes to "sleep" to slightly above 0V after 8-15 minutes.

2) MS-8 output configuration and settings in this particular install are:

- CH1 = Left front
- CH2 = Right front
- CH3 = Left rear
- CH4 = Right rear
- CH5 = Center
- CH6 = Left woofer
- CH7 = Right woofer
- CH8 = Not used

Suggested setup:
- skip input setup
- Sub = 2, subsonic at 50Hz at 18dB slope, low pass at 175Hz at 12dB slope
- Front = 1-way
- Center = 1-way, 175Hz at 18dB
- Sides = 1-way, 175Hz at 18dB

Calibration volume = -25dB
Main volume after calibration = -6dB

There will be no sound until MS-8 is completely setup.

How it sounded?

Just great considering all the OEM speakers and a center speaker add-on powered by just the MS-8. No tricks for bass/midbass; for MS-8 installs with PnP harness I use the subwoofer outputs instead of front 2-way. What this does is to force the MS-8 to send the bass to the underseat woofers after calibration. Otherwise setting the front as 2-way confuses the MS-8 microphone with the location of the underseat woofers during calibration, causing the apparent lack of midbass.

The result was a lot of bass from the get go, so much that I had to reduce the subwoofer level adjustment to almost minimum. This is another benefit of setting the underseat woofers as subwoofers -output can be directly adjusted with the subwoofer level in the MS-8 menu. The E9x HiFi OEM woofers with aftermarket power are really impressive with just 30W RMS. As a side note, the F30 HiFi OEM woofers are inferior to the E9x's in output and bass depth just because they are shallower, IMO.

Voices and midbass from the doors, center and rear speakers were loud and clear. The Logic7 implementation in the MS-8 is more aggressive in stereo separation, front stage presence and surround effects than the OEM Logic7. Depending on what is your opinion about surround DSP effects, what the MS-8 Logic7 does would be better or worse than OEM.

For sure, the customer loved it.
Awesome. Do u still sell the harness that I can use to replace my oem hifi amp? I am going to do the same ms-8 install. I wish I was in Florida but Texas is a little too far to drive to you for the install.
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      06-22-2014, 12:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metblack328i View Post
Awesome. Do u still sell the harness that I can use to replace my oem hifi amp? I am going to do the same ms-8 install. I wish I was in Florida but Texas is a little too far to drive to you for the install.
Yes... please use PM for details.
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      06-22-2014, 01:13 PM   #4
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I love these ideas you give us Technic! I am thinking about removing the earthquakes and amping the oem woofers I had for mid bass. My setup with Morel Hybrid 402's is lovely, but I can tell a fullness is missing from the music due to the gap from around 70-140 Hz. What are your thoughts on Jehnerts vs. OEM woofers for midbass?
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      06-22-2014, 11:05 PM   #5
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Did JBL stop making the ms-8? Crutchfield and other retailers say discontinued. Some shady sellers still have it but where can I find a genuine piece? Did jbl replace it with a newer model?

I saw an alpine h800 unit with similar capability but no built in amp. So that's a no game for me.
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      06-23-2014, 11:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metblack328i View Post
Did JBL stop making the ms-8? Crutchfield and other retailers say discontinued. Some shady sellers still have it but where can I find a genuine piece? Did jbl replace it with a newer model?

I saw an alpine h800 unit with similar capability but no built in amp. So that's a no game for me.
thanks for the bad news.


but thanks Technic for the inspiration. (I could really use more threads like these).
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      06-24-2014, 12:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metblack328i
Did JBL stop making the ms-8? Crutchfield and other retailers say discontinued. Some shady sellers still have it but where can I find a genuine piece? Did jbl replace it with a newer model?

I saw an alpine h800 unit with similar capability but no built in amp. So that's a no game for me.
Pm me
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      06-24-2014, 04:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyc123 View Post
I love these ideas you give us Technic! I am thinking about removing the earthquakes and amping the oem woofers I had for mid bass. My setup with Morel Hybrid 402's is lovely, but I can tell a fullness is missing from the music due to the gap from around 70-140 Hz. What are your thoughts on Jehnerts vs. OEM woofers for midbass?
My advice is that, before replacing the HiFi OEM woofers, just amplify them with aftermarket amp. Then decide if they need replacement.
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      06-25-2014, 08:27 AM   #9
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Technic, how did you mount the ms-8 in the oem amp space?
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      06-25-2014, 11:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metblack328i View Post
Technic, how did you mount the ms-8 in the oem amp space?
I use a custom pre-cut plastic platform attached with Velcro.
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      06-30-2014, 08:42 AM   #11
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From the pictures, it looks like you are routing the center speaker cable on the driver side. Correct me if I am wrong .

Where did you leave the display for MS-8? And how about the microphone for calibration?
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      06-30-2014, 01:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metblack328i View Post
From the pictures, it looks like you are routing the center speaker cable on the driver side. Correct me if I am wrong .

Where did you leave the display for MS-8? And how about the microphone for calibration?
No display permanently installed; once unit is calibrated the display is unplugged -not needed. Microphone must be unplugged after calibration.
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Last edited by Technic; 06-30-2014 at 03:06 PM.
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      06-30-2014, 01:51 PM   #13
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Microphone must be unplugged after calibration.
haha....yeah....no kidding
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      07-02-2014, 02:15 PM   #14
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So would you suggest something like this for a L7 system? I just got a 2008 e90 and am trying to figure out what to do. I'm liking the sound better now with the L7 off, and would like to make some simple but effective upgrades.
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      07-02-2014, 06:14 PM   #15
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So would you suggest something like this for a L7 system? I just got a 2008 e90 and am trying to figure out what to do. I'm liking the sound better now with the L7 off, and would like to make some simple but effective upgrades.
No, you already have a Logic7 system. And yours is not a HiFi system as in the install of this thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=884978
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      07-02-2014, 07:00 PM   #16
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nice. i need to find a shop in san jose to do this for me but with a sub as well
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      07-04-2014, 05:13 PM   #17
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I finally did it. Exact same setup. Technic harness is a must. The bass response on the stock sub is very good. Now I feel the speakers are alive and how much the stock amp under powered them.

The only difference is the final volume. -6db was too loud for the warning chimes. Turned it down to -12db and happy with it.
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      07-04-2014, 05:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metblack328i
I finally did it. Exact same setup. Technic harness is a must. The bass response on the stock sub is very good. Now I feel the speakers are alive and how much the stock amp under powered them.

The only difference is the final volume. -6db was too loud for the warning chimes. Turned it down to -12db and happy with it.
So you have good mid bass? How about phone bluetooth, any echoes?
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      07-04-2014, 08:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgatti
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metblack328i
I finally did it. Exact same setup. Technic harness is a must. The bass response on the stock sub is very good. Now I feel the speakers are alive and how much the stock amp under powered them.

The only difference is the final volume. -6db was too loud for the warning chimes. Turned it down to -12db and happy with it.
So you have good mid bass? How about phone bluetooth, any echoes?
Of course he has the echo with the MS-8!
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      07-04-2014, 11:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgatti
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metblack328i
I finally did it. Exact same setup. Technic harness is a must. The bass response on the stock sub is very good. Now I feel the speakers are alive and how much the stock amp under powered them.

The only difference is the final volume. -6db was too loud for the warning chimes. Turned it down to -12db and happy with it.
So you have good mid bass? How about phone bluetooth, any echoes?
Yes indeed. There is way too much bass than what I imagined. With logic 7 processing ON, I feel the sound is coming from the center speaker more. May be it just takes some getting used to. But I love it. Haven't tested the Bluetooth yet.

Edit:
Sorry u asked for mid bass. It has improved a lot from stock. Even at low volume, the sound definition is very clear.
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      07-08-2014, 11:36 PM   #21
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Turns out I do have the Bluetooth echo issue with my setup. Technic, any recommendations? I did not route the display to the cabin. So I cannot us the hot fix that jbl made (using the mute button to cancel time delay). Does the system sound bad if I turn off the time delay? And how do I disable time delay in the first place?
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      07-29-2014, 08:27 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metblack328i View Post
Turns out I do have the Bluetooth echo issue with my setup. Technic, any recommendations? I did not route the display to the cabin. So I cannot us the hot fix that jbl made (using the mute button to cancel time delay). Does the system sound bad if I turn off the time delay? And how do I disable time delay in the first place?
In my old MS-8 setup I tried different calibration volumes (from -25 all the way to -42dB) until I got a nice compromise between minimal echo and Logic7 surround effects.

The thing about this echo is that in some installs it shows up agressively and in some it does not at all. To me, this is then a calibration volume dependency.
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