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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > VTT2+/Brentuning Review



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      01-15-2015, 06:56 PM   #1
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VTT2+/Brentuning Review

The car:

2007 E90, full weight with a 15" subwoofer in the trunk. 105k miles!
6MT, Spec SMFW, BMW 550i clutch
BMS DCI
CP-e charge pipe with Tial BOV
VRSF 7" FMIC
1 step colder plugs
Riss Racing downpipes
Corsa exhaust (3.5" single that splits into dual mufflers)
Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP
Fuel-it Protoype Supplemental Fueling System (stage 1)
Vargas Stage 2+ Turbos (19t/unclipped)
E60 fuel

First, Tony was awesome to deal with. I ordered some stage 2's back long before they would be ready, and I knew this. Tony kept in contact with me and when the delays came, he with no questions asked if I wanted a refund. He was courteous, no BS, and extremely knowledgeable on the turbo side of things. My background is most recently as a test engineer working on turbine engines; Tony clearly knows his stuff. I will say that I had no issue with the delays as I ordered turbos before mine were completely dead. When the 2+'s were offered as an upgrade, I couldn't say no. Since I like ripping around and am not super concerned with 1/4 mile or trap speed, we decided on 19t compressor and unclipped turbines. If I were to do it again I might go clipped, because spool on these things is fantastic.

As far as the tune goes, I went to my standby, Bren of Brentuning. He's been involved in tuning N54's since 2008 (DIMSPort open source back then). He really does have a ton of experience and he's been my go-to since my Subaru days. I told him I wanted something that was fast, fun, but kept in mind my car has over 100k miles on it, and I do like thrashing the car somewhat severely. Using a Cobb V3 and some wizardry, he ended up giving me a map that's running 25 psi tapering down to 16-17 at redline. Timing ramps to 13.5 degrees. The DME is not blind to the boost, but it is tricked -DME won't read above 22.5 psi (although I have one unicorn log that it read 22.6). As far as power output goes, I don't have the holy grail of N54 dynos (dynojet), I use Virtual Dyno. I will say, that I use the same stretch of track, with the same start point, and the same weight for the car (and even endeavor to have the tank within 1/4 tank each time). I did do a 60-130 using SteveAZ's VBOX (I work with Steve on the engineering side of Fuel-it!) and with very little idea of what I'm doing (i.e. no FFS, no tailwinds/max acceptable downslope) ran 8.96s. I am 300 lbs. On a stock timing/boost target map, but running all of my mods, I put down 302/292. On my best FBO stock turbo E50 map I was 407/450 in the same location. My most recent map revision on the VTT 2+'s is 500/555. Anyway, looks like I'm at about 500 whp with lots of torque. When Tony sends the upgraded turbo inlets, we're revisit this and see if we can open up a little more on the top end. I'm sure Bren could have gotten more out of them on a more aggressive map, but that was not my goal. Of course I want it all, but it's gotta be sane and handle daily driving thrashing. Log (I added "actual boost" based on testing):

http://www.datazap.me/u/scgt/bretuni...og=0&data=3-16

Overall I'm very happy with the results. The car sounds and feels awesome, it's very fast, and it's very responsive -I'm nomally pretty sensitive to turbo lag and really don't like the feel of the average big-turbo car. These spool super quick, so much so that were I to do it again I'd really consider going clipped. The few people that I've had ride with me have normally commented on how different the engine sounds (Bren's VANOS magic) and then that's usually followed by "holy s&%$!" I love it.

The next progression of things will be to add inlets, then change to 100% E85 and see where we're at.

Thanks!

Chris


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      01-15-2015, 08:24 PM   #2
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Cool ! Looks like you are making progress to make it a beast. I am interested to see if his new pipes add a significant amount of HP/TQ.
Keep us updated.
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      01-16-2015, 01:47 AM   #3
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Is that a Virtual Dyno (V-Dyno) Graph ?
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      01-16-2015, 03:03 AM   #4
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Yes, virtual dyno.
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      01-16-2015, 03:13 AM   #5
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I think you'd make more power than that on real Dynojet dyno.
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      01-16-2015, 03:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musc View Post
I think you'd make more power than that on real Dynojet dyno.
That'd be funny! I wouldn't be surprised. Regardless, the delta between stock tune and the final product should be about the same...
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      01-16-2015, 03:51 AM   #7
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Good stuff!I would love to see dynojet numbers and trap speeds, your baseline number seems right if not a little high but the numbers for FBO E50 and VTT 2+ both seem low.
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      01-16-2015, 09:55 AM   #8
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I would be highly interested in normal fuel numbers with VTT2+. I only get 98oct (Europe), I could drive to Germany for 102oct but that isn't practical at all.. costs 20% more and have to drive 140km. But probably they will also make 420-440hp on normal fuel..
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      01-16-2015, 10:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux3m35i View Post
I would be highly interested in normal fuel numbers with VTT2+. I only get 98oct (Europe), I could drive to Germany for 102oct but that isn't practical at all.. costs 20% more and have to drive 140km. But probably they will also make 420-440hp on normal fuel..
Big numbers on pump gas require a big turbo, no other way around it. Stock frames can't support the boost and advance reqd. with pump. You'll make good power, but for the juiced up stockers octane is so critical.

OP nice numbers.
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      01-16-2015, 11:13 AM   #10
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Im Impresed

Very good job BrenTuning. Logs look immaculate, and smooth. I have a suggestion though. STFT banks need to be blanced a bit more, and some trims need to be reduced a bit unless you leaving headroom for more E85 when the winter blend changes. This is minor, Im just nit picking other wise

Also, post shift logs are very very very important, and will determine if the tune is dialed in correctly. As it is now its perfect.
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      01-16-2015, 11:55 AM   #11
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Very nice.

Congrats
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      01-16-2015, 12:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindovaanything View Post
Good stuff!I would love to see dynojet numbers and trap speeds, your baseline number seems right if not a little high but the numbers for FBO E50 and VTT 2+ both seem low.
Yeah, the Virtual Dyno numbers for the stock tune (which Bren modified for the E60 that was in tank) were higher than I thought. I figured the car being FBO and the larger turbos must have bought me a little in power.

The VTT 2+ numbers need to be looked at remembering that these are the 19t/unclipped, which is the smallest/fastest spooling/lowest horsepower version of the 2+. Also remember my car has 105k on it and I didn't ask or want Bren to wring out every last horsepower available. Remember, this car isn't a unicorn, it's driven hard daily, in a miserable climate, stuck in traffic nearly every morning, and used. I'm perfect with maintenance but I need a tune that isn't right on the edge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux3m35i View Post
I would be highly interested in normal fuel numbers with VTT2+. I only get 98oct (Europe), I could drive to Germany for 102oct but that isn't practical at all.. costs 20% more and have to drive 140km. But probably they will also make 420-440hp on normal fuel..
I'm most likely going to have Bren whip me up a pump gas tune, but as I'm in Arizona and we have ACN91, which is a lot like 87 octane everywhere elese -it's really terrible stuff. That in combination with the very high heat here means that I told him I don't care if it barely makes 300 whp -just something to drive on a trip if I go in a direction that E85 isn't available. You'd have to talk to Tony about pump gas number capability -I'm probably not really going to find out how much they do there. If that changes I'll be sure to update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
Big numbers on pump gas require a big turbo, no other way around it. Stock frames can't support the boost and advance reqd. with pump. You'll make good power, but for the juiced up stockers octane is so critical.

OP nice numbers.
Thanks! Agreed. We're def heating things up with the upgraded stock frames, no 2 ways about it. They're certainly way more efficient than stockers but there isn't really a substitute for a big single/stage 3 equivalent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Im Impresed

Very good job BrenTuning. Logs look immaculate, and smooth. I have a suggestion though. STFT banks need to be blanced a bit more, and some trims need to be reduced a bit unless you leaving headroom for more E85 when the winter blend changes. This is minor, Im just nit picking other wise

Also, post shift logs are very very very important, and will determine if the tune is dialed in correctly. As it is now its perfect.
Thanks BuraQ. Bren isn't very active on the forums (he's usually too busy tuning) but I've known him for a long time now, and he's always cooking up something good and he certainly knows his stuff. We are def leaving more headroom for more E85, and I need to let the car adapt a little more on the trim side of things, I had just been fooling around in Bavarian Technic resetting a variety of parameters -I'm sure he'll tweak the trims as required when the car has adapted a little better. I also may be getting due for some new injectors... the ones currently on the car have over 60k on them.

Post shift is pretty clean. It's not perfect but I'm not always the most gentle shifter. On my 60-130 run, I did nail the 3-4 shift and the log was clean -if I recall correctly (log isn't in front of me) one or two cylinders had -2.something which quickly returned to zero. How smoothly I shift makes a difference here, something I learned a long time ago and endeavor to incorporate (unless I just gotta ham fist some gears... lol).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Give_Em_The_DD View Post
Very nice.

Congrats
Thanks! I'm very pleased.
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Last edited by C.Pop; 01-16-2015 at 12:51 PM.
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      01-16-2015, 01:10 PM   #13
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awesome! seems like its well worth it cant wait to get mine
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      01-16-2015, 02:06 PM   #14
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As always, a pleasure working with you. Let's get those inlets on and play some more!

Neil@BrenTuning
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      01-16-2015, 02:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Pop View Post
Yeah, the Virtual Dyno numbers for the stock tune (which Bren modified for the E60 that was in tank) were higher than I thought. I figured the car being FBO and the larger turbos must have bought me a little in power.
Yeah, when I plotted my cobb log from a dynojet pull, the numbers were 20 whp higher on the VDyno.. It would be interesting to see some actual dynojet numbers and/or timeslips..

Last edited by NA55; 01-16-2015 at 04:09 PM.
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      01-16-2015, 03:56 PM   #16
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Yeah, as sort of a side project I may consider doing that when I get a chance to put it on a dyno. Would be an interesting comparison. I suppose accurately knowing the car weight would be useful too. Will do that as well.
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      01-17-2015, 11:00 AM   #17
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Nice numbers! You can never go wrong with the guys at BrenTuning, they're the only shop we recommend in the area for tunes/installs.
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      01-18-2015, 11:06 AM   #18
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Can wait to get my 2+ and intakes
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      01-19-2015, 05:39 AM   #19
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What part of AZ?
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      01-19-2015, 10:12 AM   #20
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Near Phx.
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      02-10-2015, 10:34 PM   #21
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Near Phx.
Oh ok. Coming this fall I'll be moving from CO springs to Prescott for school, so I'm looking for someone who can tune well for high elevation environments.
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      02-11-2015, 01:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Oh ok. Coming this fall I'll be moving from CO springs to Prescott for school, so I'm looking for someone who can tune well for high elevation environments.
ptf has me tuned in CO... i forgot to mention i was at altitude sent a log and he knew right away. they know their stuff
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