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      05-14-2014, 01:36 PM   #1
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335is vs n54 ppk version 2

Hey guys, I did a quick search and saw mixed responses so I'm hoping to get clarity on this topic. To my understanding, the n54 ppk version 2 is what the 335is is. Same upgraded cooling, bigger radiator fan, tune, performance exhaust. Same rated HP and Torque (minus over boost feature) The IS has an over boost feature, beefier flywheel and clutch, DCT (does not apply to manual) and short shifter on 6mt. To my knowledge, that's the only difference between the IS and ppk 2. Well and the cosmetic upgrades. Not counting cosmetics, what's the difference?

I came across this thread which the the manager of BMW Performance, Eric Riehle says the only difference is the over boost feature and in hardware is the beefier flywheel to handle the increased torque.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357288

I realized that IS owners get mad when I say my car with ppk2 is basically an IS including one of my good friends who just bought an 11 is

I could be totally wrong but this is my understanding. Can someone clarify?
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      05-14-2014, 01:43 PM   #2
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Sounds like the only thing you're missing is the clutch and overboost, and front/rear ground effects. Oh, and the 335is sticker on your trunk. I can understand them being mad. Are you tuned? If so yu could really rub it in.
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      05-14-2014, 01:47 PM   #3
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313s... The only thing I personally care about the IS. They can keep all the others... I just want me some 19'' 313s...... yum...
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      05-14-2014, 01:55 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jklad View Post
Sounds like the only thing you're missing is the clutch and overboost, and front/rear ground effects. Oh, and the 335is sticker on your trunk. I can understand them being mad. Are you tuned? If so yu could really rub it in.
Haha. No tune...yet. Summer plans are about to start. But I do like the m front and rear bumper but going with m3 skirts.
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      05-14-2014, 01:56 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Bear From Jax View Post
313s... The only thing I personally care about the IS. They can keep all the others... I just want me some 19'' 313s...... yum...
They do look nice. But if I were going to change out my rims, there are nicer/nicer looking wheels out there.
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      05-14-2014, 02:00 PM   #6
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They do look nice. But if I were going to change out my rims, there are nicer/nicer looking wheels out there.
This is very true, but I really like the OEM+ look. It's nice having a sleeper. If I were going to go aftermarket, I really like HRE's. But that's a lot of cash...
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      05-14-2014, 02:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear From Jax View Post
This is very true, but I really like the OEM+ look. It's nice having a sleeper. If I were going to go aftermarket, I really like HRE's. But that's a lot of cash...
Yea it is. I have AG m359 19in but I'm having doubts about it's durability. Cracked both rear rims. HRE are damn expensive but I guess you have to pay to play.
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      05-14-2014, 08:09 PM   #8
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BRO, you're not an is. lol jk, all in all they're still relatively the same car lmao. But we do consider ourselves +1 against the 335i just because we spent more money.. DCT is what wins it for me
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      05-14-2014, 08:40 PM   #9
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The DCT just takes the N54 to another level in the IS form.
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      05-14-2014, 09:06 PM   #10
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The PPK does not run the same basic software package from the factory as the 335is. They have completely different ignition advance curves. Its the main reason why the 335IS is more boost tolerant than the PPK which is just a tune on the base advance curve.

Not sure what the PPK will dyno at on the N54 but the stock 335IS will dyno 319-322whp. It grossly under rated at 320bhp.

That being said the 135is is a PPK package.
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      05-14-2014, 09:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ
The DCT just takes the N54 to another level in the IS form.
+1. Only reason to get a 335is IMO!
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      05-14-2014, 09:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
The PPK does not run the same basic software package from the factory as the 335is. They have completely different ignition advance curves. Its the main reason why the 335IS is more boost tolerant than the PPK which is just a tune on the base advance curve.

Not sure what the PPK will dyno at on the N54 but the stock 335IS will dyno 319-322whp. It grossly under rated at 320bhp.

That being said the 135is is a PPK package.
I thought to handle the over boost torque was the beefier flywheel and clutch. And not sure where you're getting the stock dyno number of 319-322 whp. I just did a quick search on here and they are doing about 293 - 308 depending on where they dyno'd. Very similar to the ppk 2 dyno results.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=541359&page=2
The OP claims he did 308. But other that posted later said 293 - 299.
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...bo_engine.html
293whp for IS

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=838263
This OP has my set up and dyno'd before and after the ppk 2 install. He did 283whp before and 296whp after ppk2 install.

All in all it seems the same to me. Which is why I'm trying to get a better understanding.
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      05-14-2014, 09:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335is808 View Post
BRO, you're not an is. lol jk, all in all they're still relatively the same car lmao. But we do consider ourselves +1 against the 335i just because we spent more money.. DCT is what wins it for me
Haha. get mad. You're not the first. I'm manual so DCT doesn't matter. My previous car, I bought a 2.0T TT with DCT and to tell you the truth I got bored of it after about a week or 2. I went back to my wrx 5mt as my daily. I don't know, I just like the action of manual.
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      05-14-2014, 10:13 PM   #14
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Hmm so the 335i might have over boost feature as well.Part of the thread discusses that it's standard on 335i and 335is. Just that 335is has an actual number attached to that over boost feature.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=530990
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      05-15-2014, 12:37 AM   #15
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Aight , I might as well chime in on this. Other than the cosmetic finish, the PPK hardware is included in the 335is. The 335is also has additional engine mounts the regular N54 do not have

The DME and the software is different from other N54 cars regardless if you upgraded to the PPK.

I am probably the only person who has a tuned 335is that has retained the overboost feature and it has a huge advantage down low.

There are tuning tables on the IS, Z435is and 1M that is null for all other N54 cars regardless if upgraded to PPK.

The DCT on this car shifts so fast it makes the new M6 and M5 seem like they are out dated, yes i drove the new M6 and M5 and I did not like the bog in the shifting. The DCT shifting on the IS is much much more refined and sharper.

So if you get the 6mt 335is then yes your just getting a 335i with a PPK , additional motor mounts, and a rebuffed cosmetic look

This cannot be said for the DCT 335is, it just a different animal all together.
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      05-15-2014, 03:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRichieX View Post
Haha. get mad. You're not the first. I'm manual so DCT doesn't matter. My previous car, I bought a 2.0T TT with DCT and to tell you the truth I got bored of it after about a week or 2. I went back to my wrx 5mt as my daily. I don't know, I just like the action of manual.
BRO MY 335I IS FASTER THEN A M3
(defeats your future argument)
(was secretly hoping for angry 335is owners to flame lolol)

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      05-15-2014, 08:14 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Aight , I might as well chime in on this. Other than the cosmetic finish, the PPK hardware is included in the 335is. The 335is also has additional engine mounts the regular N54 do not have

The DME and the software is different from other N54 cars regardless if you upgraded to the PPK.

I am probably the only person who has a tuned 335is that has retained the overboost feature and it has a huge advantage down low.

There are tuning tables on the IS, Z435is and 1M that is null for all other N54 cars regardless if upgraded to PPK.

The DCT on this car shifts so fast it makes the new M6 and M5 seem like they are out dated, yes i drove the new M6 and M5 and I did not like the bog in the shifting. The DCT shifting on the IS is much much more refined and sharper.

So if you get the 6mt 335is then yes your just getting a 335i with a PPK , additional motor mounts, and a rebuffed cosmetic look

This cannot be said for the DCT 335is, it just a different animal all together.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Minus DCT it's pretty much the same. But also, I believe dct can be had in a 335i in like germany and a few other european countries. I wonder what exactly is the difference in software? I mean both are pushing out same numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335is808 View Post
BRO MY 335I IS FASTER THEN A M3
(defeats your future argument)
(was secretly hoping for angry 335is owners to flame lolol)
Haha. I started this thread because some folks got angry in another thread that I said my car is basically an IS minus a few things like motor mount, and flywheel. 6mt so dct does not apply. They REALLY got angry. I'm just trying to fully understand the differences. I really am curious as to how the software is different. I get that DME will be different since it's in a newer car but how the software tunes and runs seems the same, as again, it pushes out same numbers.

Anyone got a link that specifically clarifies this from BMW? In my mind, I think BMW came out with the ppk2 and then realized they can package it, call it an IS offer dct as standard and sell the car for a premium. From a marketing/business strategy, it's genius. If you want dct, you have to get an IS but it's cool since you get upgraded hardware and the m-sport package standard. I think when the ppk first came out it was some ridiculous cost but now it can be had for like $1600.
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      05-15-2014, 09:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRichieX View Post
This is exactly what I was thinking. Minus DCT it's pretty much the same. But also, I believe dct can be had in a 335i in like germany and a few other european countries. I wonder what exactly is the difference in software? I mean both are pushing out same numbers.
Other than the overboost, there is another difference in the way the DME handles advanced timing, you will rarely see negative post timing shifts on the IS which has an instantaneous timing recover during shifts.

The Euro 335is DCT is prone to timing flateline which does not exist on the IS

You have to keep in mind is that the majority of tuners use a template map that was optimized around the regular N54 that is used on an IS which disables the the overboost features etc. Thats why the numbers come out similar

I often wonder is an IS an IS after its performance features have been ommitted ? That is the IS signature that sets it apart from other N54's

From what I have seen, and to be blunt, under virtual perfomance comparison of the DCT 335is and the DCT 335i (Euro) they have remotely two different types of characteristics

For me when you ommitt performance features on the IS then it becomes a regular tuned N54 in my eyes. Its something most have to deal with tuners with though until they know how to tune their own cars, and its not easy.

Another thing, dynos should not be taken as prime authority as there are factors of what type of dyno is being used, DA, and temps etc. No dyno is equal and have their own cons. Dynos should only be set as an example backed up by somthing else like traps and ET. What a car does on a dyno can be far different when it performs in real world conditions
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      05-15-2014, 09:59 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Other than the overboost, there is another difference in the way the DME handles advanced timing, you will rarely see negative post timing shifts on the IS which has an instantaneous timing recover during shifts.

The Euro 335is DCT is prone to timing flateline which does not exist on the IS

You have to keep in mind is that the majority of tuners use a template map that was optimized around the regular N54 that is used on an IS which disables the the overboost features etc. Thats why the numbers come out similar

I often wonder is an IS an IS after its performance features have been ommitted ? That is the IS signature that sets it apart from other N54's

From what I have seen, and to be blunt, under virtual perfomance comparison of the DCT 335is and the DCT 335i (Euro) they have remotely two different types of characteristics

For me when you ommitt performance features on the IS then it becomes a regular tuned N54 in my eyes. Its something most have to deal with tuners with though until they know how to tune their own cars, and its not easy.

Another thing, dynos should not be taken as prime authority as there are factors of what type of dyno is being used, DA, and temps etc. No dyno is equal and have their own cons. Dynos should only be set as an example backed up by somthing else like traps and ET. What a car does on a dyno can be far different when it performs in real world conditions
Completely agree about the dyno numbers. Let's see some slips of stock IS and 335i with ppk2. My buddy just got an 11 IS. When the weather starts to get nicer I'm going to ask him to run his car while it's stock. I'll run mine with only ppk2. But we're both 6mt so takes away from the dct aspect of IS. We'll get some numbers.

So essentially, if you know how to tune your own car, can't you tune a 335i with ppk to have the same performances features as the IS? Or is there something else that controls over boost and what not in the IS.
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      05-15-2014, 10:01 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRichieX View Post
Haha. get mad. You're not the first. I'm manual so DCT doesn't matter. My previous car, I bought a 2.0T TT with DCT and to tell you the truth I got bored of it after about a week or 2. I went back to my wrx 5mt as my daily. I don't know, I just like the action of manual.
Oh trust me you won't ever get bored with a DCT in a 335i... Manual is great in the earlier days but today's super fast shifts in a proper dct box is just such an advantage as many can vouch for...
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      05-15-2014, 10:25 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by WRichieX View Post

So essentially, if you know how to tune your own car, can't you tune a 335i with ppk to have the same performances features as the IS? Or is there something else that controls over boost and what not in the IS.
No, the table and the tables that supliment this table are "null" meaning they are not active in non IS cars
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      05-15-2014, 10:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
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And not sure where you're getting the stock dyno number of 319-322 whp. .
My first DynoJet run back in 2011 on 94 octane fuel was 319whp. Base line held up over a number of modifications into late 2013. IIRC Terry estimated the car would run 5whp or so less on that dyno. Other brands will give different numbers. The attached may be of interest. Its the first time at the track & the guy is pretty inconsistent but will give a general idea what the car can do.



Bottom line for me was my 335is stock would always out run my 135is(PPK2) regardless of who was driving the cars. The spread was always more than just the 6MT/DCT expected spread.

I think the new 435 MPPK @ 335BHP should be stronger than the stock 335IS. Will find out next month after the break-in period.

BTW the IS does not have a bigger oil cooler what it has for cooling is an additional small radiator in the left bumper intake, faster water pump & a bigger fan. Typically you need to pull the fan assembly to mount an FMIC easier. With the stock version the FMIC's will slip right in without touching the fan assembly.

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