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      10-06-2006, 04:14 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet
If the others had approval, why dont Mobil state it ??
Mobil 1 5w-40 is not even available in the United States. Neither is 5W-30 ESP. It is obvious that BMW just took the European info and copied it into the US manual.

Could you post the current approved oil list? Perhaps that would put this issue to bed.
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      10-06-2006, 04:18 PM   #46
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thanks for the info. i just went out and checked, and that's what it exactly says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatcarry
Page 4 of the service and warrantee Information Booklet typed directly:

All 2006 model year 325i, 325XI, 325XI Sports Wagon, 330i, and 330XI are factory filled with BMW High Performance Synthetic oils. At the time of the printing of this booklet, the following oils are strongly recommended and approved by BMW:

BMW High performance 5W-30 Synthetic Oil (Part Number 07 51 0 017 866)
Mobil 1 5W-30
Mobil 1 5W-40

BMW is evaluating various synthetic oils for inclusion in our list of recommended engine oils. For the most current list of synthetic oils please contact your BMW center or call BMW of North America, LLC. at 1-800-831-1117.
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      10-06-2006, 04:28 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet
So again, use whatever you want
Im just saying the very latest list of approved oils for USA dealers for USA cars doesnt include the USA 5W-30 and also only the 0W-40 states it has BMW approval

If the others had approval, why dont Mobil state it ??
I'll take your word that its not your approved lists. However, my sources (the manual, and a phone call directly to customer service) do say it is approved so I'm going to continue to use Mobil 1 5w-30 whenever I can't get BMW oil. If I ever have a warrantee issue that can directly be tied to oil (not very likely) I have actual legitimate BMW sources to back me up.
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      10-06-2006, 04:30 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 742
Mobil 1 5w-40 is not even available in the United States. Neither is 5W-30 ESP. It is obvious that BMW just took the European info and copied it into the US manual.

Could you post the current approved oil list? Perhaps that would put this issue to bed.
I asked if I can permission to publish a copy of the Mobil LL-01 part and was given this pic

The full documents are copyrighted on BMW's internal technical sites
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      10-06-2006, 04:36 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combatcarry
I'll take your word that its not your approved lists. However, my sources (the manual, and a phone call directly to customer service) do say it is approved so I'm going to continue to use Mobil 1 5w-30 whenever I can't get BMW oil. If I ever have a warrantee issue that can directly be tied to oil (not very likely) I have actual legitimate BMW sources to back me up.
And I hope you have many thousands of wonderful trouble free miles

It is also intriguing to me why the newer "gold top" "extended performance" USA Mobil 1 5W-30 doesnt have approval. Maybe they are still testing it or just havent gotten around to adding it to the list ( which is maintained by BMW AG )
The older "normal top" one never got it, but it was given to the 0W-40 one.

I will keep checking for updates on the list and posting them on the forum
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      10-06-2006, 04:49 PM   #50
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Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 data sheet (sold in Europe): http://www.mobil.com/Germany-English...mula_5W-30.asp

Mobil 1 5W-30 data sheet (sold in US): http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Lu...bil1_5W-30.asp
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      10-06-2006, 04:57 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet
I asked if I can permission to publish a copy of the Mobil LL-01 part and was given this pic

The full documents are copyrighted on BMW's internal technical sites
They need to make the list public. This game, and sloppy transmission of information from the mother country to the United States, cost VW a lot of money. It will be interesting to see if it costs BMW in coming years.
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      10-06-2006, 05:38 PM   #52
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Wow, I am having deja-vu here. there was a very similar argument a few years back on the E46 board about whether or not Mobil 5-30 can be used. I’ll search and see if I can dig up the thread. Basically Mobil 5-30 in the US is not approved for use in BMW motors. The manual is wrong. The European 5-30 is. In the US you have to use 0-40 from Mobil. If you go to the Mobil tech specs on the oil, you’ll see that the actual viscosity (not the 5-30 on the bottle) of the oil is not quite thick enough to meet the standards for BMW. Apparently there is a range of viscosity that is acceptable to have for an oil to be advertised as a certain rating. Mobil 1 5-30 in the US is on the low side of that range and the BMW (castrol) 5-30 is on the high side. Thus both are “5-30” but not exactly equal.

Moral of the story: If you run Mobil 5-30 here in the US will you destroy your motor? Probably not. But, for me I am not going to take the chance when 0-40 is the same price. While the car is under warranty, I’ll probably just use the BMW 5-30, though with all the talk of high temps in 335’s I may go with the TWS 10-60 (M car stuff).
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      10-06-2006, 06:43 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealm3
Wow, I am having deja-vu here. there was a very similar argument a few years back on the E46 board about whether or not Mobil 5-30 can be used. I’ll search and see if I can dig up the thread. Basically Mobil 5-30 in the US is not approved for use in BMW motors. The manual is wrong. The European 5-30 is. In the US you have to use 0-40 from Mobil. If you go to the Mobil tech specs on the oil, you’ll see that the actual viscosity (not the 5-30 on the bottle) of the oil is not quite thick enough to meet the standards for BMW. Apparently there is a range of viscosity that is acceptable to have for an oil to be advertised as a certain rating. Mobil 1 5-30 in the US is on the low side of that range and the BMW (castrol) 5-30 is on the high side. Thus both are “5-30” but not exactly equal.

Moral of the story: If you run Mobil 5-30 here in the US will you destroy your motor? Probably not. But, for me I am not going to take the chance when 0-40 is the same price. While the car is under warranty, I’ll probably just use the BMW 5-30, though with all the talk of high temps in 335’s I may go with the TWS 10-60 (M car stuff).
probably this one: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168505
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      10-06-2006, 07:28 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet
Im not shure I get what you are saying

LL-01 refers to BMW Specifications for Long Life motor oils released in 2001
LL-04 refers to BMW Specifications for Long Life motor oils released in 2004
There was also a LL-98 before

The R6 engines require a minimum of LL-01

The new diesels that have the optional particle filters fitted need LL-04


The main oils with LL-01 or LL-04 approvals state so on the bottle

Funny,BMW NA doesn't think so.
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      10-06-2006, 07:36 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealm3
Wow, I am having deja-vu here. there was a very similar argument a few years back on the E46 board about whether or not Mobil 5-30 can be used. Iíll search and see if I can dig up the thread. Basically Mobil 5-30 in the US is not approved for use in BMW motors. The manual is wrong. The European 5-30 is. In the US you have to use 0-40 from Mobil. If you go to the Mobil tech specs on the oil, youíll see that the actual viscosity (not the 5-30 on the bottle) of the oil is not quite thick enough to meet the standards for BMW. Apparently there is a range of viscosity that is acceptable to have for an oil to be advertised as a certain rating. Mobil 1 5-30 in the US is on the low side of that range and the BMW (castrol) 5-30 is on the high side. Thus both are ď5-30Ē but not exactly equal.

Moral of the story: If you run Mobil 5-30 here in the US will you destroy your motor? Probably not. But, for me I am not going to take the chance when 0-40 is the same price. While the car is under warranty, Iíll probably just use the BMW 5-30, though with all the talk of high temps in 335ís I may go with the TWS 10-60 (M car stuff).
What was revelant for the E46 is irrevelant concerning the E90.

LL-01 oils were recommended in the owners manuals for the M54 motors in the E46 however the E90 doesn't use the M54.

The LL-01 spec doesn't apply to the E90 here in the US.
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      10-06-2006, 07:37 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 742
They need to make the list public. This game, and sloppy transmission of information from the mother country to the United States, cost VW a lot of money. It will be interesting to see if it costs BMW in coming years.

BMW NA isn't as stupid as you seem to belive.
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      10-07-2006, 06:29 AM   #57
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Capacity-controlled oil pump: double flow rate, precise control, substantially lower energy consumption.
In accordance with the current oil pressure, the capacity-controlled oil pump accurately supplies the required quantity of oil during each operating condition. As the oil circulation parameters (pressure, quantity and temperature) react partly in opposite ways, conventional pumps, which increase their flow rate according to engine speed, are not suitable for the complex requirements of the new BMW R6.

The whole dimension of the R6 project is aptly demonstrated by one single ancillary component. With the capacity-controlled oil pump BMW achieves two goals simultaneously:

the amount of oil intake corresponds to the quantity required under each particular operating condition. The capacity-controlled oil pump does not require a bybass in order to re-divert excess flow (up to 80%).

Thanks to the regulation of the actual requirement and the elimination of unnecessary output, the capacity-controlled oil pump consumes up to 2 kW less than conventional oil pumps.


That is part of the reason an LL-01 and A3 rated oils are not needed or necessarily desirable.

Damn guys,BMW used to spec 20W50 down to 15f.

You gonna use that too?
Thicker isn't always better especially in an engine as complex as the R6 N52.

Maybe in a less complicated design like the new twin turbo 335i engine perhaps.
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      10-07-2006, 07:03 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300B

The LL-01 spec doesn't apply to the E90 here in the US.
BMW NA and BMW AG documents state a minimum of BMW Spec LL-01 must be used in the N52 petrol engines.

Earlier E46 engines could use LL-98

The USA BMW oil sold and used by dealers is Castrol TXT LL-01
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      10-07-2006, 07:07 AM   #59
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BMW came up with the LL-04 secifications for the diesel engines with particulate filters, while keeping the formula close to LL-01 spec for the petrol engines.
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      10-07-2006, 07:13 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300B


That is part of the reason an LL-01 and A3 rated oils are not needed or necessarily desirable.

Damn guys,BMW used to spec 20W50 down to 15f.

You gonna use that too?
Thicker isn't always better especially in an engine as complex as the R6 N52.

Maybe in a less complicated design like the new twin turbo 335i engine perhaps.
N54 also uses the demand regulated oil pump and there is nothing less complicated about the engine, it just doesnt use the Valvetronic system

All BMW dealerships are required to use LL-01 or where available LL-04 oils
The pump has nothing to do with what oil is speced
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      10-07-2006, 08:16 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet
BMW NA and BMW AG documents state a minimum of BMW Spec LL-01 must be used in the N52 petrol engines.

Earlier E46 engines could use LL-98

The USA BMW oil sold and used by dealers is Castrol TXT LL-01

Softec TXT 5W30 you mean?
It's not even labelled a aynthetic in Europe btw.

In NA LL-01 is not manditory nor recommeded.
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      10-07-2006, 09:07 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300B
Softec TXT 5W30 you mean?
It's not even labelled a aynthetic in Europe btw.
Well the bottle and castrol website says it is
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      10-07-2006, 09:11 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet
I asked if I can permission to publish a copy of the Mobil LL-01 part and was given this pic

The full documents are copyrighted on BMW's internal technical sites
E90Fleet, can you tell me if Red Line Oil is on that list or if it's approved for 335i?
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      10-07-2006, 09:18 AM   #64
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From a BMW NA "specified oil list"
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      10-07-2006, 09:20 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuthair
E90Fleet, can you tell me if Red Line Oil is on that list or if it's approved for 335i?
Hi, there are no Red Line products currently on their list
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      10-07-2006, 09:22 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300B
In NA LL-01 is not manditory nor recommeded.
NA and rest of the world reccomendations are the same

Why wouldnt BMW reccomend their own labeld USA oil which is produced by Castrol for them ?


May I ask where you are getting your info about it not being reccomended ?
Maybe because the owners manual doesnt state it ? ( it doesnt state most service requirements )


EDIT:

From a BMW NA Dealer bulletin:

"it is mandatory to use BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil in 1999 model year and later BMW models, Castrol Formula RS SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Oil or Castrol TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Oil in M5 S62 models produced up to 3/00 and E46 M3, E36 M roadster and M coupe with S54 engines. Also recommended is the use of either BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil, BMW High Performance Mineral Oil or one of today's highly advanced brand name lubricating oils conforming to API classification SH or higher in 1998 and earlier BMW models."
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