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      11-27-2009, 01:16 AM   #1
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Stacking a JB+ on top of an ECU flash

Hi,

I just bought a special version of the JB+ ( min = 0.2, max = 2.0 psi ) from BMS.

I plan to put it on top of my ECU flash ( ~ 14.5 psi ) and raise the additional JB+ boost slowly, finding a well working & performing configuration.

Any thoughts, any experiences ?

Thanks,
Eugen
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      11-27-2009, 01:22 AM   #2
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On top of Giac stage 1 i run +1 psi and for racing 1.5 psi. NO issues at all. Car was pretty fast.
Just check at redline what you are boosting , everything above 12 psi is pushing it.
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      11-27-2009, 04:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita View Post
On top of Giac stage 1 i run +1 psi and for racing 1.5 psi. NO issues at all. Car was pretty fast.
Just check at redline what you are boosting , everything above 12 psi is pushing it.
Thanks, how about max. psi on stock turbos with an upgraded FMIC and less pressure drop ( -0.7 psi compared to stock ) and OEM DP's with 200 cell HJS cats. What would be your recommondation related to turbo reliability ?

The product and related questions are discussed here as well:
n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=86623#post86623

Thanks,
Eugen
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      11-27-2009, 05:49 AM   #4
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If you are pushing now 14.5 just set jb plus to +1 psi and see how the car goes. I did lots of logging with the Jbplus and sent them to Terry everytime i raised it. All was looking good. You should monitor PSI you are boosting after 6000 rpm so that you dont go over 12 psi.
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      11-27-2009, 07:27 AM   #5
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I have a few customers who are interested in this so if you guys can post your experiences that would be great

Mike
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      11-27-2009, 09:08 AM   #6
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Giac Stage 1 + JBplus (1.5psi) - Boost around 14.8 Psi.
Yellow is WHP.
Add 25 whp for dynojet type figures
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      11-27-2009, 11:54 AM   #7
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Well, currently my boost rarely exceeds 14psi ( depending on ambient temps ) and tapers down to 9.5 psi at redline. I'll try to start with 1 additional psi. Which performance gain could be expected and should this be safe ?
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      11-27-2009, 11:55 AM   #8
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yes its fine, worst that can happen is a limp.
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      11-27-2009, 12:12 PM   #9
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Now, you can use such a configuration for Meth tuning with ANY ECU flash not supporting Meth configurations . Just read on the "other" board.

However, first I'll raise my engine performance output without Meth.

Eugen
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      11-27-2009, 01:08 PM   #10
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Well with Meth i will use the GIAC Race Methanol map
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      11-27-2009, 01:27 PM   #11
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I'm very happy with my ECU flash. Provides 402hp / 560 nm crank without any issues since quite some time ( with Forge DV's, Code3/Spearco FMIC, OEM DPs with 200 cell HJS catalysts, VKM oil-cooler, drop-in filter ). Now I just want to upper the boost without getting a limp.

Understanding the concept of JB+, it should work flawless unless you go too far.

Eugen
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      11-27-2009, 02:00 PM   #12
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By the way this is against a NOELLE car when i had GIAC Stage 1 and Jbplus 1.5 psi.

[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/243-wLd0SrA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/243-wLd0SrA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]
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      11-27-2009, 02:28 PM   #13
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So you can stack tunes now?? I'm assuming only piggy on top of flashed tunes? And not piggy on top of piggy?

I always heard that wasn't safe.......??

TIA
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      11-27-2009, 02:33 PM   #14
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you can stack Jb+ (which is a boost controller) to a flash...
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      11-27-2009, 05:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita View Post
If you are pushing now 14.5 just set jb plus to +1 psi and see how the car goes. I did lots of logging with the Jbplus and sent them to Terry everytime i raised it. All was looking good. You should monitor PSI you are boosting after 6000 rpm so that you dont go over 12 psi.
Did you monitor the psi with a boost cage or via the OBD. With the OBD shouldnt the psi indicated be a bit out.
Did the car manage the extra fueling needing properly?
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      11-27-2009, 05:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeSmooth View Post
Did you monitor the psi with a boost cage or via the OBD. With the OBD shouldnt the psi indicated be a bit out.
Did the car manage the extra fueling needing properly?
yes, boost was monitored with gauge and fueling was not an issue at all. All was looking good with timing as well.
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      11-27-2009, 06:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita View Post
yes, boost was monitored with gauge and fueling was not an issue at all. All was looking good with timing as well.
Interesting. Guess its of no use now with the GIAC Stage 2. Whats the max boost on that? I am currently running 1.15bar peak and must say the difference from 1 bar is day and night.
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      11-27-2009, 06:25 PM   #18
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16.5 PSI on 94 octane.
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      11-29-2009, 04:58 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstmx_ryder View Post
So you can stack tunes now?? I'm assuming only piggy on top of flashed tunes? And not piggy on top of piggy?

I always heard that wasn't safe.......??

TIA
I wouldn't stack a piggy on top of a piggy, never. You would ask for trouble.

However, stacking a JB+ ( adjustable from 0.2 to 2.0 psi ) will only alter the TMap sensor readings, which means the flashed ECU has to optimize it's settings according to the ( altered ) readings. Depending on the quality of the flash, there could be just more power without any changes in quality, drivability and power delivery characteristics. Thus I deal with my already tuned ECU, I needed a JB+ starting at 0.2 psi with increments of ~ 0.2 psi to find out how my flash will work in hot conditions and at high altitude. In case everything turns out well I can expect 10 - 20 additional whp by setting +0.8 to +1 psi boost with zero negative side-effects, IMO. I use an aftermarket FMIC with approximately 0.7 psi less pressure drop compared to a stock FMIC at my boost-levels, which is not respected in my flash, so I don't expect noticeable additional turbo stress compared to the configuration the flash has been developed for. The JB+ tapers down more progressive at high rpms than for example a JB3 which is exactly what I like to achieve ( capability of the turbos ).

In addition, I expect that stacking a JB3 or PROcede on top of a flash would not work properly thus a) no such low boost maps are available and b) a lot of signals are altered and signal computing is involved. This could result in ECU conditions out of range, which can cause power loss, excessive boost pressure, misfire, knock, detonation and AFR out of range, IMO.

I have some room for additional bolt-ons as well. I still run the OEM intake ( with a HP drop-in filter ) and might change the secondary cats by high-flow 200 cell HJS cats which I use in my OEM DP's already. Finally I consider the BMW performance exhaust. All this should end up in reliable +380whp/+380wtq which I think is pretty fast for a daily driver.

BTW, I hate removing tuning components for visiting the dealership and love the ability to have my ECU flashed locally. In fact I never removed any tuning component before bringing the car in and have been covered by warranty with wastegate rattle and HPFP failure.

Cheers,
Eugen
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      11-30-2009, 02:12 PM   #20
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interesting, i know of a 1er stacking dinan and jb. seems to have no problem as of late. johnny135 i think
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      12-05-2009, 08:02 PM   #21
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The story continues
n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=86623#post86623

Long story short:

I adjusted the JB+ flash version to 50%. This provides sustained 16 - 16.5 psi boost at 40 DegF ambient temperature. Car pulls like a freight-train. Everything works flawless, no codes thrown. However, I will adjust ( dial back ) JB+ to provide 15 psi at 40 DegF together with the flash. I use 95-96 octane ( 100 octane in Europe ) gasoline.

Engine data is currently logged with the Bavarian Technic tool.

Cheers,
Eugen
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      12-06-2009, 05:12 AM   #22
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Hi,

Dialed back the JB+ to provide 15 psi at 40 DegF together with my flash and test drove the car. Very nice car, although I liked 16 - 16.5 psi better .

Now I'll continue data logging and see how the overall tune behaves at high ambient temperatures and / or high altitute.

I expect no problems at all. JB+ (flash version) on top of an ECU flash seems to be a great option .

Cheers,
Eugen
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