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      09-09-2016, 11:56 AM   #1
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Thumbs down Reason #5,876 Why BIG BANKS Suck A**!!!

These MF's have a team of MF's sitting around devising ways to skim your $$$ right out of your wallet, account, family, home, etc.
I am happy to say that I have never done business with Wells Fargo. But this is some shady, low down dirty shit right here:


http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/08/inve...inkId=28554666

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Everyone hates paying bank fees. But imagine paying fees on a ghost account you didn't even sign up for!


That's exactly what happened to Wells Fargo customers nationwide.

On Thursday, federal regulators said Wells Fargo (WFC) employees secretly created millions of unauthorized bank and credit card accounts -- without their customers knowing it -- since 2011.

The phony accounts earned the bank unwarranted fees and allowed Wells Fargo employees to boost their sales figures and make more money.

"Wells Fargo employees secretly opened unauthorized accounts to hit sales targets and receive bonuses," Richard Cordray, director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, said in a statement.

Wells Fargo confirmed to CNNMoney that it had fired 5,300 employees over the last few years related to the shady behavior. Employees went so far as to create phony PIN numbers and fake email addresses to enroll customers in online banking services, the CFPB said.

The scope of the scandal is shocking. An analysis conducted by a consulting firm hired by Wells Fargo concluded that bank employees opened over 1.5 million deposit accounts that may not have been authorized.

The way it worked was that employees moved funds from customers' existing accounts into newly-created ones without their knowledge or consent, regulators say. The CFPB described this practice as "widespread." Customers were being charged for insufficient funds or overdraft fees -- because there wasn't enough money in their original accounts.

Additionally, Wells Fargo employees also submitted applications for 565,443 credit card accounts without their customers' knowledge or consent. Roughly 14,000 of those accounts incurred over $400,000 in fees, including annual fees, interest charges and overdraft-protection fees.

The CFPB said Wells Fargo will pay "full restitutions to all victims."

Related: ATM and overdraft fees top $6 billion at the big 3 banks

Wells Fargo is being slapped with the largest penalty since the CFPB was founded in 2011. The bank agreed to pay $185 million in fines, along with $5 million to refund customers.

"We regret and take responsibility for any instances where customers may have received a product that they did not request," Wells Fargo said in a statement.

Wells Fargo has the highest market valuation among any bank in America, worth just north of $250 billion. Berkshire Hathaway (BRKA), the investment firm run legendary investor Warren Buffett, is the company's biggest shareholder.

Of the total fines, $100 million will go toward the CFPB's Civil Penalty Fund, $35 million will go to the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, and another $50 million will be paid to the City and County of Los Angeles.

"One wonders whether (the CFPB) penalty of $100 million is enough," said David Vladeck, a Georgetown University law professor and former director of the Federal Trade Commission's Bureau of Consumer Protection. "It sounds like a big number, but for a bank the size of Wells Fargo, it isn't really."

Wells Fargo confirmed to CNNMoney that the 5,300 firings took place over several years. The bank listed 265,000 employees as of the end of 2015.

"At Wells Fargo, when we make mistakes, we are open about it, we take responsibility, and we take action," the bank said in a memo to employees on Thursday.

The CFPB declined to comment on when the investigation began and what sparked it, citing agency policy. "We don't comment on how we uncover these matters," a spokesman said.

As part of the settlement, Wells Fargo needs to make changes to its sales practices and internal oversight.

Customers are fuming. Brian Kennedy, a Maryland retiree, told CNNMoney he detected an unauthorized Wells Fargo account had been created in his name about a year ago. He asked Wells Fargo about it and the bank closed it, he said.

"I didn't sign up for any bloody checking account," Kennedy, who is 57 years old, told CNNMoney. "They lost me as a banking customer and I have warned family and friends."

"Consumers must be able to trust their banks," said Mike Feuer, the Los Angeles City Attorney who joined the settlement.

Feuer's office sued Wells Fargo in May 2015 over allegations of unauthorized accounts. After filing the suit, his office received more than 1,000 calls and emails from customers as well as current and former Wells Fargo employees about the allegations.

Wells Fargo declined to say when it hired a consulting firm to investigate the allegations. However, a person familiar with the matter told CNNMoney the bank launched the review after the L.A. lawsuit was filed.

Even though the Wells Fargo scandal took place nationally, the settlement with L.A. requires the bank to specifically alert all its California customers to review their accounts and shut down ones they don't recognize or want.

"How does a bank that is supposed to have robust internal controls permit the creation of over a half-million dummy accounts?" asked Vladeck. "If I were a Wells Fargo customer, and fortunately I am not, I'd think seriously about finding a new bank."
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      09-09-2016, 12:04 PM   #2
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I don't think it's fair to blame Wells Fargo for their employees' actions. Once Wells Fargo discovered the scam, they did what they could: fire the employees, pay all fines, return dirty money to victims, and apologize/ensure appropriate measures have been taken to prevent future reoccurrences.
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      09-09-2016, 12:06 PM   #3
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Smoosh, you are correct on so many levels....
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      09-09-2016, 12:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoosh View Post
Blaming Wells Fargo for their employees' actions is like blaming Boeing for an aircraft crash due to pilot error.

Once Wells Fargo discovered the scam, they did what they could: fire the employees, pay all fines, return dirty money to victims, and apologize/ensure appropriate measures have been taken to prevent future reoccurrences.
To hell with that. Where's my pitchfork!!
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      09-09-2016, 12:09 PM   #5
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Uh I understand all this, but where do you keep your money? Under your mattress?
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      09-09-2016, 12:11 PM   #6
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I think this is just as bad or worse.......My allergist prescribed an epipen to me last month because of a white fish allergy I had.......when I was 12 years old.

Mylan CEO Behind EpiPen Price Furor Praised by Senator Father.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/ar...ces-on-epipens
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      09-09-2016, 12:11 PM   #7
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Yeah, yeah. Like this is the first sham Banks have ever pulled. Their sorry asses just happen to get caught! And what were they supposed to do, NOT fire these employees??? If you honestly believe they didn't know what the f*** was going in the upper levels of management, keep dreaming lol!
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      09-09-2016, 12:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller
Smoosh, you are correct on so many levels....
Actually.....

Wells Fargo and large bank culture is about profit and sales. I've worked for a 'Big Box' bank, and now work for a very large Credit Union.

Sales culture is hard core at Wells and others. Profit above all else. The fact that employees devised a way to cheat the incentive system isn't necessarily only a reflection of the 5,000 employees who were blamed.
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      09-09-2016, 12:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoosh View Post
I don't think it's fair to blame Wells Fargo for their employees' actions. Once Wells Fargo discovered the scam, they did what they could: fire the employees, pay all fines, return dirty money to victims, and apologize/ensure appropriate measures have been taken to prevent future reoccurrences.

You need to look at the root cause of these actions though. When you develop a "salesman" culture that pins employees' pay, bonuses, and promotions to upselling products and also fail to implement adequate safeguards that prevent abuse and fraud you share a large portion of the responsibility.

Also, Wells Fargo did not discover the scam. They had to be sued and investigated by the CFPB before they would admit fault.
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      09-09-2016, 12:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
Actually.....

Wells Fargo and large bank culture is about profit and sales. I've worked for a 'Big Box' bank, and now work for a very large Credit Union.

Sales culture is hard core at Wells and others. Profit above all else. The fact that employees devised a way to cheat the incentive system isn't necessarily only a reflection of the 5,000 employees who were blamed.
Actually trying to properly incentivize sales people is one of the hardest things to do. Most good sales people are Type A and very creative, however do they convince people to buy things. They will always find a way to work the system to benefit them. They will always do what is in the best interest of their pocket book, and the wells forgo case is no different.
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      09-09-2016, 12:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
Actually.....

Wells Fargo and large bank culture is about profit and sales. I've worked for a 'Big Box' bank, and now work for a very large Credit Union.

Sales culture is hard core at Wells and others. Profit above all else. The fact that employees devised a way to cheat the incentive system isn't necessarily only a reflection of the 5,000 employees who were blamed.
Yes. Wells Fargo is to blame. They need to change their incentive structure for their peeps. They entice them with sales goals that could only be met by doing shady shit.
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      09-09-2016, 12:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSTYLE
Yeah, yeah. Like this is the first sham Banks have ever pulled. Their sorry asses just happen to get caught! And what were they supposed to do, NOT fire these employees??? If you honestly believe they didn't know what the f*** was going in the upper levels of management, keep dreaming lol!
Alright, calm down TX, no need to throw a hissy-fit...

Your post is blaming Wells Fargo as a corporation for this "shady behavior," not upper-level management. I'm sure upper-level management knew what was going on...it's the culture of many large corporations, no news there. I will not, however, stop doing business with Wells Fargo as a corporation due to this mid-level scam initiated primarily for personal gain...
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      09-09-2016, 12:28 PM   #13
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WF jacked me when I was a teenager. It was my first car loan and they kept tacking on mandatory insurance to my payments even though I repeatedly faxed and mailed them proof of my own insurance. Of course their insurance was three or four times the cost of regular insurance. There was no way I could afford that so I had to get rid of the car. It was a terrible experience.

I couldn't believe it and always told people they were shady AF. Years later I found out there were a lot of people getting jacked like that by them. I never did business with them again and I'm so happy that their shady shit is finally coming out.

Although, I'm sure they'll just pay a fine and move on. They can calculate the risk of getting caught to see if it's profitable.
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      09-09-2016, 12:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
Actually.....

Wells Fargo and large bank culture is about profit and sales. I've worked for a 'Big Box' bank, and now work for a very large Credit Union.

Sales culture is hard core at Wells and others. Profit above all else. The fact that employees devised a way to cheat the incentive system isn't necessarily only a reflection of the 5,000 employees who were blamed.
You are absolutely correct! I too had my fair share of time working at a couple specifically in Sales and Investment. Epic Greed doesn’t even begin to describe the culture.
I have the lowest regards for the work ethics for banks. They are unfortunately a necessary evil. But if at all possible keep your checking and savings at a Credit Union. Credit cards with big banks is understandable. But even then, keep an eye open.
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      09-09-2016, 12:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoosh View Post
Alright, calm down TX, no need to throw a hissy-fit...

Your post is blaming Wells Fargo as a corporation for this "shady behavior," not upper-level management. I'm sure upper-level management knew what was going on...it's the culture of many large corporations, no news there. I will not, however, stop doing business with Wells Fargo as a corporation due to this mid-level scam initiated primarily for personal gain...
I can and will voice my opinion. So you can bank and work there for all I care.
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      09-09-2016, 12:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoosh View Post
I don't think it's fair to blame Wells Fargo for their employees' actions. Once Wells Fargo discovered the scam, they did what they could: fire the employees, pay all fines, return dirty money to victims, and apologize/ensure appropriate measures have been taken to prevent future reoccurrences.
Don't believe that. They're super shady and I'm sure they knew. That's the PR. Banks are great at calculating risk. If they get caught, they pay fines and continue on.
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      09-09-2016, 12:52 PM   #17
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Hey smoosh - I am surprised you do business with WFC, and not Navy Federal CU??
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      09-09-2016, 12:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
Hey smoosh - I am surprised you do business with WFC, and not Navy Federal CU??
Or aqny one of many many other FCUs, or a local bank.
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      09-09-2016, 01:10 PM   #19
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Hey smoosh - I am surprised you do business with WFC, and not Navy Federal CU??
Technically, I'm not commissioned yet, so I can't open an account with NFCU until I commission...but when I do, absolutely will be switching over
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      09-09-2016, 01:30 PM   #20
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If people are involved with an organization, there will be fraud going on as well. No two ways about it.
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      09-09-2016, 01:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Or aqny one of many many other FCUs, or a local bank.
I belong to too many CU's, if that's possible, Navy, PenFed, you name it. The way they treat people is completely contrary to commercial banks. Yes, it's unfair treatment that they get, but that benefits the CU, and then the member.

What did we get for keeping tons of money at WFC? A call once a year that our free stagecoach was ready to be picked up. One year, a stuffed animal.

Bad service, high turnover, and employees under unrealistic goals (hmmmm that elderly person just refi'd their home last week at 8.375% with you, and now you're asking them to do it again at 8% claiming it will be a no cash out of pocket refi with only 20k in closing costs, so you can meet your monthly goal).

True, bank employees are just ordinary people making tops 75k. The fact that they cheat is encouraged by their employer. After 2008, it's funny, a person working for a mortgage co. is more qualified than one working for a bank. For pete's sake they have to pass a test, they are not just issued a NMLS number.

p.s. how could one not belong to Navy or PenFed? Respectively, they each have one of the best CC's in each category. PenFed has a true 5% on gas that is automatically deducted from the statement. Why would anybody not want 5% off gas? It's something we all need. Navy true 1.5% rewards redeemable anytime as little as $0.01. Navy had a 5% cd 2 yrs. ago, 12 mo. NO BRAINER.
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      09-09-2016, 01:50 PM   #22
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtron View Post
WF jacked me when I was a teenager. It was my first car loan and they kept tacking on mandatory insurance to my payments even though I repeatedly faxed and mailed them proof of my own insurance. Of course their insurance was three or four times the cost of regular insurance. There was no way I could afford that so I had to get rid of the car. It was a terrible experience.

I couldn't believe it and always told people they were shady AF. Years later I found out there were a lot of people getting jacked like that by them. I never did business with them again and I'm so happy that their shady shit is finally coming out.

Although, I'm sure they'll just pay a fine and move on. They can calculate the risk of getting caught to see if it's profitable.
I was discussing this earlier and someone commented: " I had a 401k with Wells Fargo that was getting smaller for no reason, and eventually it came to light that someone at the bank was "reallocating" my funds into accounts that I wasn't aware of. Eventually I got my money back in both incidents, but it was a long and painful process."

Investment Banking is where many of us get 'taken'. And it is imperative that we monitor our finances, especially 401k, IRA, ROTH with a microscope! The sad thing is, we f****** pay these banks to do just that through fees. And what do we get in return? Robbed and sometimes worse.
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