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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > The n54 isnt the only car limited up top by its twin turbos



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      09-04-2012, 11:47 AM   #1
mithiral67
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The n54 isnt the only car limited up top by its twin turbos

Here is the results from my custom tune from AMS on my 997.1 Turbo. You can see what the engine can do down low similar to the n54 but with limited results up top.

Stock the 911 turbo generates 480 hp and 505 tq at the crank. Stock power expected after exhaust - 498 hp and 521 tq. So the baseline appears reasonable at 16% loss for an all-wheel drive car.

The car pulls north of .9 gs through 100mph. Feels amazing.

Thanks AMS for everything.
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      09-04-2012, 11:57 AM   #2
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This is not surprising. Virtually every single stock turbocharged car is limited in upper RPM ranges because auto mfgs place a higher priority on boost response over ultimate all out power, hence the use of smaller turbos.

BMW seems to be trying to change this paradigm with turbocharged M-cars that can pull hard to redline. However, once you start turning up the boost in those cars, you will still run out of steam in the upper RPM range. I guess it's very similar to your Porsche where the stock tune makes max power at or near redline, but when you turned up the boost, there's not as much that can be gained in the upper RPM range compared to the lower RPMs.
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      09-04-2012, 12:19 PM   #3
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The new tri-turbo M3/M4 will have two VATN turbine nozzles, which should eliminate the high RPM choking. Same with the diesels, but those don't rev that high. The straight 6 will be rev limited based on stroke and crankshaft harmonics, anyway.
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      09-04-2012, 09:27 PM   #4
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at 115mph+ i was dead even with a 328i the other day. made me sad
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      09-04-2012, 10:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 View Post
The new tri-turbo M3/M4 will have two VATN turbine nozzles, which should eliminate the high RPM choking. Same with the diesels, but those don't rev that high. The straight 6 will be rev limited based on stroke and crankshaft harmonics, anyway.
Please clarify. Seems like the N54 inline 6 has no problem making max power at high rpm/redline given the right turbo set up.
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      09-04-2012, 10:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Please clarify. Seems like the N54 inline 6 has no problem making max power at high rpm/redline given the right turbo set up.
He's saying the new stock turbo setup on the upcoming M3/M4 will not be rev limited by restrictions in the turbo system (like the stock 335i is) but rather by what the rotating assembly can actually take.
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      09-05-2012, 07:05 AM   #7
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617wtq. Gotta love Porsches! PS...the Sachs clutch setup is great, and you will certainly need it soon, if not already
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      09-05-2012, 08:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 View Post
The new tri-turbo M3/M4 will have two VATN turbine nozzles, which should eliminate the high RPM choking.
Would you mind explaining what that means? I saw that VATN means variable area turbine nozzle, but I don't have enough technical understanding to grasp what that means.

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      09-05-2012, 09:00 AM   #9
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The turbine (exhaust side) has vanes around the turbine wheel that can pivot to push more or less exhaust against the turbine. At low RPMs, the vanes are moved to push gasses against the turbine, and at higher RPMs, the vanes pivot away to allow more exhaust gas flow without choking the engine down, which is where a small stock-style turbo chokes the engine out. So you get great boost response and higher boost pressures at low RPMs, less choking at high RPMs.

There was a video on the BMW tri-turbo diesels that shows computer graphic cutaways of the system working with the VATN turbos.

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      09-05-2012, 09:13 AM   #10
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really cool
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      09-05-2012, 09:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefactoM6 View Post
617wtq. Gotta love Porsches! PS...the Sachs clutch setup is great, and you will certainly need it soon, if not already
Already shopping around.
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      09-05-2012, 09:32 AM   #12
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Now that is awesome. Seems so simple when you watch the video.

Can't wait to see what a "tuned" next gen M3 will put out.
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      09-05-2012, 10:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mithiral67 View Post
Here is the results from my custom tune from AMS on my 997.1 Turbo. You can see what the engine can do down low similar to the n54 but with limited results up top.

Stock the 911 turbo generates 480 hp and 505 tq at the crank. Stock power expected after exhaust - 498 hp and 521 tq. So the baseline appears reasonable at 16% loss for an all-wheel drive car.

The car pulls north of .9 gs through 100mph. Feels amazing.

Thanks AMS for everything.
These numbers look amazing for a stock car + tune and bolt ons.

I actually just started shopping for a 997.1 to replace my 335i. Low mileage cars can be had for 70-80k, which seems reasonable for a relatively reliable entry level Super Car.

How has your experience been, going from a modded 335i to the P-Car?
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      09-05-2012, 11:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Already shopping around.


PS, have you considered doing e85? My buddy who just picked up a 997.1 TT is supposedly getting the Protomotive e85 setup, and claims that the power made by e85+stock turbos is equal to upped VTGs on 93. Just curious if that was in the cards.
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      09-05-2012, 11:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
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These numbers look amazing for a stock car + tune and bolt ons.

I actually just started shopping for a 997.1 to replace my 335i. Low mileage cars can be had for 70-80k, which seems reasonable for a relatively reliable entry level Super Car.

How has your experience been, going from a modded 335i to the P-Car?
same here, hence my parts for sale in sig. although i have a first home purchase to make and then the car comes second a few months later. anything from a carrera s, turbo, or gt3. need to drive them all..

nice numbers op
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      09-05-2012, 11:58 AM   #16
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Here is a write up I did comparing the two.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694095

With more time behind the wheel, I am still in love with the car. The acceleration is brutal. AWD makes so much difference, there is no wasted power at low speeds.

Some negatives. The cost to modify are staggering compared to the n54. The car is obviously on a diet compared to the 335i. It weighs 10% less than the 335ix and chunk of that saves comes from sound reduction materials. Its not a noisy car, but its not quiet like the 335i. Only changed the oil once for about $250.
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      09-05-2012, 12:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefactoM6 View Post


PS, have you considered doing e85? My buddy who just picked up a 997.1 TT is supposedly getting the Protomotive e85 setup, and claims that the power made by e85+stock turbos is equal to upped VTGs on 93. Just curious if that was in the cards.
E85 requires more work on the fueling system. I want to keep the car as reversable as possible back to stock. I would prefer to hold off on changing the clutch as its a $5k+ hit. An E85 setup would definetely burn the clutch out instantly.

Also, I am already getting only 15mpg. With E85, I would be at the pumps every other day.
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      09-05-2012, 02:11 PM   #18
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Why the wavy dyno plots?
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      09-05-2012, 02:31 PM   #19
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Smoothing is at 3, less than the 5 most folks are use too.
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      09-05-2012, 02:45 PM   #20
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We are doing a flexfuel kit on our shop 997tt
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      09-05-2012, 02:46 PM   #21
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We are doing a flexfuel kit on our shop 997tt
Upgraded fuel system needed so far on yours? What type of numbers are you getting?
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