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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Wash, Wax, Detailing and Cosmetic protection/repairs > Cars painted.. wash/wax?when?



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      12-16-2009, 11:10 AM   #1
5soko
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Cars painted.. wash/wax?when?

Alright well my car got painted abut 2 weeks ago. Just the quarter panel and rear bumper.

They said not to bring it to car washs and to hand wash it with mild soap for 3 months.

Anyways, can i throw a quick detailer on the car? like meguairs black bottle quick detailer?
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      12-16-2009, 11:21 AM   #2
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you should be fine with the QD, just make sure that the formula is a mild one
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      12-16-2009, 02:07 PM   #3
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3 months? That seems a bit ridiculous. For one, you get a fair amount of sun in socal even in the winter, and one might assume that a body shop would bake your car during the colder months anyways?! I just had my car repaired, and I was told to wait about 30 days before I detail it or anything, but that washing would be fine. I spoke to a professional detailer about the matter and he contacted several reputable painters who all agreed that even just 15-20 days would suffice.

The max of 30 days seems to be the norm, at least from what I've seen, but waiting an entire 90 days before you can wash your car normally? That strikes me as a bit odd.
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      12-16-2009, 02:30 PM   #4
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+1 on 30 days, i painted my last few cars and 30 days is about right.

But the amount of time depends really. first off, was the it painted in a heated booth? Type of clear coat used, crappy clear coats are squishy. Hard to explain, go to a place where you know was painted and where it's not visible, use ur finger nail and press down, then let go, if u don't see the clear pressed down, then your good.

but if it was painted in a heated booth, then you should be fine, i only waited 30 days for everything to clear our cuz i did it in my garage. Oh another thing don't park in places where you can get condensation if ur clear is fresh, otherwise you'll get hazing (also depends on the clear too). But i definitely wouldn't do anytype of heavy buffing anytime soon, if it's crap clear you'll pull it right off. depends if they used a adhesive too.
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      12-16-2009, 04:58 PM   #5
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Applying a Polymer Sealant or Waxing New Paint

a) Polishing or Waxing Fresh Paint (this is only relative to re-painted surfaces)

One of the most often asked question (besides Leather care and Glass cleaning) and a subject that results in a great deal of confusion and misinformation regarding polishing or waxing re-painted panels. The majority of refinish paint is supplied by BASF DuPont, PPG and Sherwin Williams is 2K polyurethane; one component is polyisocyanate and the second is a polyol (acrylic or polyester polyol).

Water or solvent-based paints (which still constitutes the majority of what is still being used, despite VOC regulations) once the two components react they form a strong polymer chain that it is not affected by most solvents (with the exception of paint removers or so-called paint thinners, such as Dichloromethane or methylene chloride).

Newly applied paint is soft, much softer than OEM paint while newly refinished paint is about 90% cured within 24 hours, although it does take up to 30 days for it to become fully cross-linked (even with the help of a drying oven). Automotive paint is classified as a semi-permeable membrane, some chemicals penetrate easily(solvents) During this period, using waxes or sealants that use a solvent as their carrier system should not be used since the solvents permeate the paint and soften it and if the wax or sealant contains abrasives, it can cause micro marring on the softened paint. The best products to use during this period are therefore water based systems that are both solvent and abrasive-free.

Most paint shops use 10-20% more isocyanate component (hardener) than the polyol component. The reaction between these two (isocyanate and alcohol) is fairly rapid and that accounts for the 90% curing rate of the refinish paint within 24 hours. That leaves about 10% un-reacted isocyanate, some of these isocyanate groups slowly react with moisture (hence the term moisture cure) and form amine groups (releasing CO2).

The newly formed amine groups rapidly react with isocyanate groups to form urea or polyurea, which is much harder than polyurethane adding solvents to the paint, hindering this reaction, while water-based products can help the (moisture) curing process.

Professional painters add chemicals; accelerants and compounds to their paint mix prior to painting to improve flexibility, reduce paint imperfections, increase hardness, and improve gloss and some body shops heat it in a paint oven to harden the ‘shell’, it doesn’t reduce cross-linking times (this process is both temperature and time dependent) But I would suggest waiting for approximately ten to fifteen days before any abrasive product application, which should be more than sufficient time to enable paint off gassing and aerobic curing

I would suggest waiting for approximately ten to fifteen days before any abrasive product application, which should be more than sufficient time to enable paint off gassing and aerobic curing (paint cross linking is both time and temperature dependent). If it just came from a paint / body shop fresh paint shouldn’t need polishing. If it should, I would strongly advise against the use of heavily applied pressure and overtly abrasive products.

Automotive paint is classified as a semi-permeable membrane; it has both tensile strength and elongation (elasticity) newly painted surfaces are soft and full of out gassing solvents, resin binders and additives, as well as and water. Polish contains solvents, which soften the paint film, kinetic surface friction and applied downward pressure transfers its energy into heat / torque (force to rotate an object about an axis);

(a) Which causes the soft paint film to become thinner by elongation and the pad rotation to transmit shear stress (twist), which could result in the alteration of the paint films bond between its substrate, causing it to delaminate or tear?

(b) The heat makes the gasses expand (pV = nRT) the expanding gases go through a phase transition (change in density) and to relive this increased pressure they rupture the paint film surface, causing small fissures (similar to solvent pop)

(c) Once the outgas process is complete automotive coatings (paint) becomes a semi-solid permeable membrane, Being a polymer (elastomers) it remains flexible while retaining its tensile strength, to enable it to expand and contract to follow temperature fluctuations (elongation) kinetic friction and its associated heat can cause a rapid temperature rise (i.e. initial surface temp 80.oF, heat attained with a cutting foam pad at 1,100 RPM for approx. ten seconds is approx. 104.oF) the paint temperature can be checked by utilizing an instant read-out infra-red ‘gun’ thermometer, paint surface ‘spot’ temperature should be limited to 110.oF

In accordance with the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) a temperature of 115.oF will cause the urethane clear coat to soften and the foam pad will cause scratching that is forced deep into the clear coat.

Also be aware that plastics and those with flex agent additives have a different thermal rating and will be negatively affected by applied heat very rapidly.

‘Fresh paint safe glaze’ while a paint is cross linking, using solvent- based waxes or sealants is not ideal since the solvents penetrate the paint and soften it and will interfere with the outgas / cross linking process.
The common ingredients in a’ fresh paint safe’ glaze are: water, glycerine (to produce a high shine) amino-functional mineral oils and mild abrasive Kaolin (China clay) to burnish the surface and produce a gloss, they exclude silicone and wax, some polymers are also formulated as ‘fresh paint safe’ for the same reasons

The application of a specific ‘fresh paint safe’ or polymer type product, Zanio Z Polishes (exclude the use of either Z1 or ZFX™) Optimum Car Wax is water-based and is safe on fresh paint, or use Presta Fast Wax. Allow an ‘initial gas off’ (evaporate) /cure aerobic process of 7 days before application
These products are completely safe for any fresh paint system as they allow the solvents in a water-based paint to outgas / aerobic cure process and provide some protection for any type of paint surface. After thirty days (30) the paint surface can be protected with a regular polymer sealant and/or Carnauba wax.

The average paint cure time is 30 days; but the body-shop / paint manufactures know their products; seek their advice so as not to void any warranty. Paint manufacturer have specific technical guidelines on how to use their products to affect a warranted spot/panel/ repairs or a full repaint. This preserves both the paint manufactures and factory warranty (if offered)


An extract from one of a series of unbiased “Detailing Technical Papers” TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2009, all rights reserved
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      12-19-2009, 11:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5soko335i View Post
Alright well my car got painted abut 2 weeks ago. Just the quarter panel and rear bumper.

They said not to bring it to car washs and to hand wash it with mild soap for 3 months.

Anyways, can i throw a quick detailer on the car? like meguairs black bottle quick detailer?
ya i just got a part of my car repainted i was told the same wait 90 days..
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      12-20-2009, 12:48 AM   #7
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i would avoid quick detailers that will leave things like wax behind.
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      12-20-2009, 02:24 AM   #8
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i've always been told 90 days...
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      12-20-2009, 03:14 AM   #9
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you can buff and polish and compound all you want while you are waiting...its the waxing/sealing that you cant!

You CAN use meguiars 80 for a polish and a touch of protection while the car "outgasses" as it still allows the paint to breathe
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      12-20-2009, 04:18 AM   #10
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i work in the automotive finishes industry. We recommend 90 days prior to detailing your car.
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      12-20-2009, 11:56 AM   #11
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Thanks guys.. yea 90 days i guess im going to have to wait.. crap... o well..

No QD no waxes or polishes... ill just wash it with mild soap good...


P.s. how about the panels and places that were not painted i can polish and QD those sections right?
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      12-20-2009, 05:04 PM   #12
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yes anywhere else you can polish and wax it. But the painted part you want to leave it alone for 90 days.
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      12-20-2009, 06:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5soko335i View Post
Thanks guys.. yea 90 days i guess im going to have to wait.. crap... o well..

No QD no waxes or polishes... ill just wash it with mild soap good...


P.s. how about the panels and places that were not painted i can polish and QD those sections right?
polish is actually fine. you can do whatever you want to the rest of the car though
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      12-22-2009, 11:57 PM   #14
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2006 M5  [5.00]
30 days sounds about right
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