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      01-07-2010, 04:29 PM   #67
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Like I mentioned before, my posts were not meant to be taken so personally...geez
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      01-07-2010, 04:30 PM   #68
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we're all car lovers here...can't we all just get along? lol
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      01-07-2010, 04:31 PM   #69
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Los this one's for you..."no homo" intended with the smiley heart pink guy thingy. lol
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      01-07-2010, 04:31 PM   #70
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post whoring it up...hehe
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      01-07-2010, 04:41 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ToadHollow View Post
Common sense would tell you that Dinan tunes are "safe" tunes because of the warranty retention. Withoutt the warranty playing a part in this I'm sure the piggybacks would be more evenly tuned.
This has nothing to do with your discussion with the other Darkcyd, however, I will point out that edited or not, his thread is factually correct and that fact deserves respect. I'm to old for the whole pwned thing, but just pointing out fact.

With regards to the statement above, that logic is flawed. If you adhere to that logic then BMW's are the some of the most reliable cars made due to the strength of their warranty. As we know, we love our bimmers but they are certainly not amongst the most reliable. Another example would be Chrysler products back in the old 7/70 warranty days. Clearly not reliable.

The simple fact is that warranty and safety aka reliability are really independent. In fact, that warranty is only really as strong as the entity underwriting said warranty. In the case of Dinan, I am not sure who it is that underwrites it, but I am sure that it is not BMWNA.

Again, Dinan is a solid and viable tune. All tunes, piggyback or flash have relative merits and deficiencies. Not all cost $2k+, however. Remember that scene from Tommy Boy? Sorry, couldn't find a vid clip.

Tommy: "Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmm. Very interesting."
Ted Nelson (Colin Fox): "Go on, I'm listening."
Tommy: "Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside."
Ted: "Yeah, it makes a man feel good."
Tommy: "Of course it does. Why shouldn't it? You figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the guarantee fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?"
Ted: "What's your point?"
Tommy: "The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? 'Building model airplanes', say's the little fairy. Well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. Next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser and your daughter's knocked up. I've seen it a hundred times."
Ted: "But why do they put a guarantee on the box, then?"
Tommy: "'Cause they know all the sold you was a guaranteed piece of bleep. That's all it is isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, you might want to think about buying a quality product from me."
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      01-07-2010, 04:47 PM   #72
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Al...you memorized that whole part? lol AWESOME!!!!

I you sir!!! I lub dat mooby!
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      01-07-2010, 05:19 PM   #73
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Al...you memorized that whole part? lol AWESOME!!!!

I you sir!!! I lub dat mooby!
Well, TBH I do have it mostly memorized and have actually used it in my business (giving proper credit to the movie as I do). Tommy Boy is one of the best sales guy movies ever.

But in this case, I copied and pasted from somewhere on the internet.
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      01-07-2010, 05:25 PM   #74
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LoL
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      01-07-2010, 05:50 PM   #75
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[quote=AFV335i;6481403]This has nothing to do with your discussion with the other Darkcyd, however, I will point out that edited or not, his thread is factually correct and that fact deserves respect. I'm to old for the whole pwned thing, but just pointing out fact.

With regards to the statement above, that logic is flawed. If you adhere to that logic then BMW's are the some of the most reliable cars made due to the strength of their warranty. As we know, we love our bimmers but they are certainly not amongst the most reliable. Another example would be Chrysler products back in the old 7/70 warranty days. Clearly not reliable.

The simple fact is that warranty and safety aka reliability are really independent. In fact, that warranty is only really as strong as the entity underwriting said warranty. In the case of Dinan, I am not sure who it is that underwrites it, but I am sure that it is not BMWNA.

I do appreciate that factual accuracy is being retained in this thread. You do bring up some interesting points in your assessment of Dinan's warranty. I am sure Dinan is aware that the other available options are more powerful and have probably lost customers to these options. However, they have not increased the power. I would think part of this reluctance might stem from their "research" (I am not sure if their research results are 100% accurate) indicating that anything above their current levels would be unsafe, hence rendering them unable to guarantee and hence warranty the safety of their product.
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      01-07-2010, 06:16 PM   #76
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Hmm...I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this discussion is interested.

A company can warranty anything they want regardless of how good the product actually is. The fact is that the word warranty or guarantee illicit a feeling of safety in the consumer. The reality is that it is a numbers game, actuarily speaking. Will the additional sales or revenues achieved by warrantying a product outweigh the anticipated costs of replacement/repair?

My point is that you may be giving Dinan too much credit. Your statement unwittingly suggests that all other tuners by virtue of their lack of warranty are negligent and careless in that they have not done any research regarding safety and by default are unsafe. I know you didn't mean to say that but that is the implication (you are not alone there). That is obviously not true.

In point of fact, isn't Dinan's warranty a direct result of their decision to partner with BMWNA? IOW, wasn't this BMW's requirement, much like many manufacturers require their suppliers to be ISO certified? If Dinan had not made a business decision to try to grab market share by partnering with BMWNA would they have a warranty at all?

This is interesting in that I have never gone down this path of thinking. Could it be then, that part of the $2k difference in cost is licensing requirements from BMWNA (if any) and part is what is their perceived cost to warranty (go back to revenues outweighing cost to replace/repair)? So you pay extra for a warranty because the company knows that their will be a certain amount of cost to repair. That is reality in any warranty situation. The warranty is not indicative of a superior product by any means. In fact I would argue that the further away from the market cost of a non-warrantied product, the less "safe" it is.
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      01-07-2010, 06:49 PM   #77
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Blah blah blah blah. Dinan rules
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      01-07-2010, 07:40 PM   #78
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For what it's worth, I have a E90 335i with JB3 1.4 Beta, with DCI and AMS intercooler, and I live in the NW suburbs. I do recommend it--I've had good luck with the product and the company. I can meet up for a test drive or whatever...
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      01-07-2010, 09:37 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFV335i View Post
Hmm...I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this discussion is interested.

A company can warranty anything they want regardless of how good the product actually is. The fact is that the word warranty or guarantee illicit a feeling of safety in the consumer. The reality is that it is a numbers game, actuarily speaking. Will the additional sales or revenues achieved by warrantying a product outweigh the anticipated costs of replacement/repair?

My point is that you may be giving Dinan too much credit. Your statement unwittingly suggests that all other tuners by virtue of their lack of warranty are negligent and careless in that they have not done any research regarding safety and by default are unsafe. I know you didn't mean to say that but that is the implication (you are not alone there). That is obviously not true.

In point of fact, isn't Dinan's warranty a direct result of their decision to partner with BMWNA? IOW, wasn't this BMW's requirement, much like many manufacturers require their suppliers to be ISO certified? If Dinan had not made a business decision to try to grab market share by partnering with BMWNA would they have a warranty at all?

This is interesting in that I have never gone down this path of thinking. Could it be then, that part of the $2k difference in cost is licensing requirements from BMWNA (if any) and part is what is their perceived cost to warranty (go back to revenues outweighing cost to replace/repair)? So you pay extra for a warranty because the company knows that their will be a certain amount of cost to repair. That is reality in any warranty situation. The warranty is not indicative of a superior product by any means. In fact I would argue that the further away from the market cost of a non-warrantied product, the less "safe" it is.
I apologize for the delayed response, and I've done some thinking about your take on warranties. I accept your argument that a product's safety and warranty are independent. I think the question can be asked both ways though. Is it safe because it has a warranty or does it have a warranty because it is safe. A bit too philosophical I suppose.

As one response, I don't think Dinan's pricing is entirely indicative of their relationship with BMW. For instance, many Dinan dealers are independent of a BMW dealership, but their prices are the same. I am not sure if BMW decided to drop Dinan one day that their prices would go down significantly. So I would imagine that a significant portion of their premium corresponds to the actual warranty component.

Regarding your final point, I think it is more applicable to insurance. A riskier driver costs more to insurance, hence the more expensive the policy, the more unsafe the driver. I think this also applies to performance cars such as ours which are more expensive to insure. I don't think this applies to warranties. Kia for instance offers a 10 year warranty, but I am not sure if Kias are significantly less reliable than BMWs or any other brand to warrant such a significantly different warranty policy.

In any case, you have an interesting and well thought out perspective.
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      01-07-2010, 09:48 PM   #80
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Blah blah blah blah. Dinan rules
dinan sucks as much as you suck dick .. haha truth lol
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      01-07-2010, 11:44 PM   #81
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I apologize for the delayed response, and I've done some thinking about your take on warranties. I accept your argument that a product's safety and warranty are independent. I think the question can be asked both ways though. Is it safe because it has a warranty or does it have a warranty because it is safe. A bit too philosophical I suppose.

As one response, I don't think Dinan's pricing is entirely indicative of their relationship with BMW. For instance, many Dinan dealers are independent of a BMW dealership, but their prices are the same. I am not sure if BMW decided to drop Dinan one day that their prices would go down significantly. So I would imagine that a significant portion of their premium corresponds to the actual warranty component.

Regarding your final point, I think it is more applicable to insurance. A riskier driver costs more to insurance, hence the more expensive the policy, the more unsafe the driver. I think this also applies to performance cars such as ours which are more expensive to insure. I don't think this applies to warranties. Kia for instance offers a 10 year warranty, but I am not sure if Kias are significantly less reliable than BMWs or any other brand to warrant such a significantly different warranty policy.

In any case, you have an interesting and well thought out perspective.

1. Thank you for taking it that way as I was clearly thinking out loud.

2. Yes, the insurance comparison is exactly what I was going for. And it is almost to high-brow a discussion for this platform. However, one thought occured to me since my post. If power delivery and longevity are a consumer's concern, why not go with BMW's new perf line? Admittedly I don't know alot about it (but there is an ECU/power upgrade from what little I have read, no?), but I would suspect if anyone were to know what safe and tolerable levels were it would be them even moreso than Dinan.

3. Lastly, Carlos, in addition to having spend $1400 more than me for less, you obviously have a very small penis based on your constant need to justify your purchase.
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      01-08-2010, 12:48 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFV335i View Post
However, one thought occured to me since my post. If power delivery and longevity are a consumer's concern, why not go with BMW's new perf line? Admittedly I don't know alot about it (but there is an ECU/power upgrade from what little I have read, no?), but I would suspect if anyone were to know what safe and tolerable levels were it would be them even moreso than Dinan.
I think the BMW performance kit only adds around 20hp or so. Honestly I don't think you're going to see any upgrade offerings directly from BMW that will compete with the aftermarket products. They need to leave themselves a market for the M3 after all.
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      01-08-2010, 05:31 AM   #83
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coming from a guy who has posts this long when comparing tunes, I'm not too worried. As for mark who dressed up as Ronald mcdonald and does gay clown porn I am also no worried

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFV335i View Post
This has nothing to do with your discussion with the other Darkcyd, however, I will point out that edited or not, his thread is factually correct and that fact deserves respect. I'm to old for the whole pwned thing, but just pointing out fact.

With regards to the statement above, that logic is flawed. If you adhere to that logic then BMW's are the some of the most reliable cars made due to the strength of their warranty. As we know, we love our bimmers but they are certainly not amongst the most reliable. Another example would be Chrysler products back in the old 7/70 warranty days. Clearly not reliable.

The simple fact is that warranty and safety aka reliability are really independent. In fact, that warranty is only really as strong as the entity underwriting said warranty. In the case of Dinan, I am not sure who it is that underwrites it, but I am sure that it is not BMWNA.

Again, Dinan is a solid and viable tune. All tunes, piggyback or flash have relative merits and deficiencies. Not all cost $2k+, however. Remember that scene from Tommy Boy? Sorry, couldn't find a vid clip.

Tommy: "Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmm. Very interesting."
Ted Nelson (Colin Fox): "Go on, I'm listening."
Tommy: "Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside."
Ted: "Yeah, it makes a man feel good."
Tommy: "Of course it does. Why shouldn't it? You figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the guarantee fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?"
Ted: "What's your point?"
Tommy: "The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? 'Building model airplanes', say's the little fairy. Well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. Next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser and your daughter's knocked up. I've seen it a hundred times."
Ted: "But why do they put a guarantee on the box, then?"
Tommy: "'Cause they know all the sold you was a guaranteed piece of bleep. That's all it is isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, you might want to think about buying a quality product from me."
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFV335i View Post
Hmm...I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this discussion is interested.

A company can warranty anything they want regardless of how good the product actually is. The fact is that the word warranty or guarantee illicit a feeling of safety in the consumer. The reality is that it is a numbers game, actuarily speaking. Will the additional sales or revenues achieved by warrantying a product outweigh the anticipated costs of replacement/repair?

My point is that you may be giving Dinan too much credit. Your statement unwittingly suggests that all other tuners by virtue of their lack of warranty are negligent and careless in that they have not done any research regarding safety and by default are unsafe. I know you didn't mean to say that but that is the implication (you are not alone there). That is obviously not true.

In point of fact, isn't Dinan's warranty a direct result of their decision to partner with BMWNA? IOW, wasn't this BMW's requirement, much like many manufacturers require their suppliers to be ISO certified? If Dinan had not made a business decision to try to grab market share by partnering with BMWNA would they have a warranty at all?

This is interesting in that I have never gone down this path of thinking. Could it be then, that part of the $2k difference in cost is licensing requirements from BMWNA (if any) and part is what is their perceived cost to warranty (go back to revenues outweighing cost to replace/repair)? So you pay extra for a warranty because the company knows that their will be a certain amount of cost to repair. That is reality in any warranty situation. The warranty is not indicative of a superior product by any means. In fact I would argue that the further away from the market cost of a non-warrantied product, the less "safe" it is.
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      01-08-2010, 07:34 AM   #84
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      01-08-2010, 08:54 AM   #85
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It's called intelligent coherent thought, Tiny.

Of course, you are the same guy who can't type, spell or use grammar worth a shit. That's what happens when you learn english by watching Scarface over and over.

LOL, you know I'm just F-ing with you (except for the small penis part - Will narced).
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      01-08-2010, 09:11 AM   #86
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blaahhhh, i can bloviate too but choose not to. id rather just get it all out as quickly as possible with the maximum amount of swearing. gram,.mer and speeli'ng isnt my strength, but if need be everyone can understand the language of violence.
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      01-08-2010, 09:14 AM   #87
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Nice!

Note to self - watch yourself around Los, he may shank me.
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      01-08-2010, 09:16 AM   #88
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Is Dinan publically traded? I could check but I gotta run. I'd be interested in their financials. That may give me some insight into my warranty theory.
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