E90Post
 


TireRack
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Wavetrac or Quaife?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-09-2010, 05:11 AM   #45
marcel b
Lieutenant Colonel
 
marcel b's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Europe

Posts: 1,864
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
Daehler is below CHF 5000 including hardware. However, I do have a bolted ring gear and so I need the diff only. Not sure whether the BMW dealer is willing to / capable to install it. I'll ask ZF / Duebendorf whether they are willing to install ...

IMO your most cost-effective scenario would be a Quaife or Wavetrac and a ring-gear from diffsonline.
Birds offers the solution of me sending me final gear to them, and install the Quaife on my gearring. Only issue is that my car has to be stored for a week or so.
I checked diffsonline, couldn't really find what I would need.

A BMW dealer should be able to dismount the final drive and mount it back in again, I guess... (Birds in this case would do the complex work) taking the ring gear from the finaldrive (in your case) is already a bit more complicated. keep me posted!

Last edited by marcel b; 01-15-2010 at 05:38 AM.
marcel b is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2010, 05:41 AM   #46
scheherazade
Major
 
Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DC metro area

Posts: 1,467
iTrader: (8)

Gear sets

http://www.diffsonline.com/product/gearsets.shtml


An AT or MT 335, the ONLY drop-in gearsets are 3.08 and 3.45.
To use the stock pumpkin, all other ratios have to be made (or you use a different pumpkin).
(I do not know how this applies to the DCT equipped pumpkins)

You can have *any* ratio made (*manufactured*) for a few grand through diffsonline.

You have to wait a few months to have them made, but you can get a SWEEEEEEEEET final drive.


I don't know what the DCT final drive ratio is.
But if you're 3.08, then the 3.46 gearset is a nice upgrade for 600 usd, and it takes care of any welded crown issues. IMHO it's worth it, ESPECIALLY if you're welded.


-scheherazade
scheherazade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2010, 05:47 AM   #47
e.n335
Moderator
 
e.n335's Avatar
 
Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Switzerland, ZH

Posts: 4,480
iTrader: (0)

^ thank you for the link provided.
__________________
Not more than 500 chp for my daily driver. Well, ... .
e.n335 is offline   Austria
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2010, 05:53 AM   #48
scheherazade
Major
 
Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DC metro area

Posts: 1,467
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
After reading your information, the Drexler seems to be a bit to "extreme" for me. (although I heard to customize it according to your needs)
Did you watch the video of the OS Giken LSD drift porsche?


Check out how nicely it oversteers through the turns.


-scheherazade
scheherazade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2010, 08:38 AM   #49
marcel b
Lieutenant Colonel
 
marcel b's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Europe

Posts: 1,864
iTrader: (0)

the DCT has 2.56 http://de.bmwfans.info/parts/catalog...rive_output-2/ 3.46 would be way to short 3.08 could be a nice alternative though The DCT however has 7 gears and the higher gears are shorter then the manual (and auto), so shorter gears is not something I would really need.
2.79 is the longest they have, and will not fit if I am correct? (at least without other modifications) In the Z4M I remember it was quite easy, pinion and tooth wheel was the only thing needed...


Quote:
Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
Gear sets

http://www.diffsonline.com/product/gearsets.shtml


An AT or MT 335, the ONLY drop-in gearsets are 3.08 and 3.45.
To use the stock pumpkin, all other ratios have to be made (or you use a different pumpkin).
(I do not know how this applies to the DCT equipped pumpkins)

You can have *any* ratio made (*manufactured*) for a few grand through diffsonline.

You have to wait a few months to have them made, but you can get a SWEEEEEEEEET final drive.


I don't know what the DCT final drive ratio is.
But if you're 3.08, then the 3.46 gearset is a nice upgrade for 600 usd, and it takes care of any welded crown issues. IMHO it's worth it, ESPECIALLY if you're welded.


-scheherazade
marcel b is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2010, 08:48 AM   #50
marcel b
Lieutenant Colonel
 
marcel b's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Europe

Posts: 1,864
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
Did you watch the video of the OS Giken LSD drift porsche?


Check out how nicely it oversteers through the turns.


-scheherazade
very nice, and am sure perfect for such a driving style. For a daily driver and only some "playing" in the weekends am not sure
marcel b is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2010, 09:03 AM   #51
jippii ensio
Major
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: On the road

Posts: 1,203
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post

About Quaife / Wavetrac LSD Type http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited...ial#Geared_LSD

It's essentially locking the wheels together so they spin at a similar rate, but to have any locking force to one another, both wheels need some load (otherwise the only locking force between wheels is plain friction from inefficiency)

The wavetrac is a slight modification, which adds a center friction plate.
It's attached to a 'wavy' surface, which pushes the plate to the center and the left/right sides rub.

That way there's an 'extra friction producer' that doesn't need wheel-load to work.


If I had to play favorites :
(i.e. personally, what I'd get if I was choosing from each type)

torque sensing :
wavetrac

clutch :
os giken
(so many wet clutches that it's hard to wear it out. There are other similar models with lots of clutches, though. it's not as unique in its genre as the wavetrac is in its genre.)



I currently use the wavetrac, and I'm happy with it.
(If my car was RWD, I would have gotten the OS Giken)


-scheherazade

+1 Its either Wavetrac or OS Giken.
I don't like Quaife because it doesn't work without load. Wavetrac is clearly the enhanced version of that LSD type. In slippery conditions the difference is very clear.
Just as you said, OS Giken is the other option that makes sense. Very good performance at a bit higher price.
jippii ensio is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2010, 09:19 AM   #52
e.n335
Moderator
 
e.n335's Avatar
 
Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Switzerland, ZH

Posts: 4,480
iTrader: (0)

I'll get the Quaife, it's proven and clutchless, so a drop in and forget device. I just have to work out the best local install opportunity.
__________________
Not more than 500 chp for my daily driver. Well, ... .
e.n335 is offline   Austria
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2010, 11:02 AM   #53
jippii ensio
Major
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: On the road

Posts: 1,203
iTrader: (0)

Wavetrac and OS Giken are proven too and do not need extra maintenance even in a long term ownership.

I suggest everyone to test drive the options on a demanding surface before making the choice.
jippii ensio is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2010, 02:51 PM   #54
marconi118
Captain
 
Drives: 06/07 e93 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: europe

Posts: 955
iTrader: (0)

finally I will go with the complete M3 DCT subframe
It will cost me 1600euro + 200 euro driveshaft. OK the clutch visco LSD is not the best for track but for DD is good. Ratio from DCT is 3.15 really good upgrade from my 3.08 6MT and as a bonus included in the price I got complete rear alu M3 suspension + M3 subframe bushings+ 250mm rear brakes + big M3 driveshafts ...

Hope it will fit and that the M3 ABS sensors will match the 335i abs module
marconi118 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2010, 04:49 PM   #55
scheherazade
Major
 
Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DC metro area

Posts: 1,467
iTrader: (8)

You're MT?

Why not just do a standard M3 subrame?
Then you'll get the 3.85:1 final drive ratio... which is HAWT.

-scheherazade
scheherazade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2010, 10:53 PM   #56
clairvoyant
Major
 
clairvoyant's Avatar
 
Drives: Bavarian Manure Wagon (BMW)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 4519′20″N, 7550′0″W

Posts: 1,033
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2007 335i  [2.62]
Question

Maybe off-topic:
With a manual transmission.
if we install a LSD; do we still go by "the lifetime transmission & differential fluid" or do we have to change the differential & transmission fluid periodically?
If we do, at what interval?
clairvoyant is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2010, 03:01 AM   #57
scheherazade
Major
 
Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DC metro area

Posts: 1,467
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by clairvoyant View Post
Maybe off-topic:
With a manual transmission.
if we install a LSD; do we still go by "the lifetime transmission & differential fluid" or do we have to change the differential & transmission fluid periodically?
If we do, at what interval?
Depends on the diff and how you drive.

DD only, driving normally, prolly could go with as few as 1 or 2 changes for the life time.

If you track, it will totally depend on your driving, personally.

What I mean is that, for example :
Brake pads can go 30k miles.
And they can go a single track day.

So it depends on *you* how long your intervals are.

-scheherazade
scheherazade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2010, 05:33 PM   #58
marconi118
Captain
 
Drives: 06/07 e93 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: europe

Posts: 955
iTrader: (0)

going from 6MT 3.08 to 3.85 for dd driving.....

feel ore confortable with 3.15 og DCT and the only subframe I found complete on ebay was from dct
marconi118 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-11-2010, 03:49 AM   #59
scheherazade
Major
 
Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DC metro area

Posts: 1,467
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
going from 6MT 3.08 to 3.85 for dd driving.....

feel ore confortable with 3.15 og DCT and the only subframe I found complete on ebay was from dct

When are you going to go over 90mph daily driving?
Gearing for acceleration is always useful.

Money is money, though. If you got a deal on 3.15, then jump on it

-scheherazade
scheherazade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-11-2010, 07:14 PM   #60
meyergru
No military grade
 
meyergru's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Munich, Germany

Posts: 544
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
I'll get the Quaife, it's proven and clutchless, so a drop in and forget device. I just have to work out the best local install opportunity.
Hi Eugen,

did you read this?

Matter-of-fact, I found it virtually impossible to get BMW to mod the diff. They can/will not open the diff, the neither have the knowlegde nor the tools for that. If you ever wondered why the BMW shops are so clean, this is the reason: They simply don't open things that could contain oil.

I had to go through a ZF shop in Munich to do the mod. On the other hand, they could not get the diff out, lacking the BMW tools. Thus, work had to be split and it was quite a costly operation (1200€ for the parts, 400€ for diff replacement and 400€ for the diff mod).

After all, I'd recommend to get a full diff replacement from Birds including the cover. Granted, it costs more, but any BMW shop can do the exchange, plus you can sell the spare part, which is impossible when you do it the other way.
__________________
meyergru is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2010, 06:05 AM   #61
marcel b
Lieutenant Colonel
 
marcel b's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Europe

Posts: 1,864
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
Hi Eugen,

did you read this?

Matter-of-fact, I found it virtually impossible to get BMW to mod the diff. They can/will not open the diff, the neither have the knowlegde nor the tools for that. If you ever wondered why the BMW shops are so clean, this is the reason: They simply don't open things that could contain oil.

I had to go through a ZF shop in Munich to do the mod. On the other hand, they could not get the diff out, lacking the BMW tools. Thus, work had to be split and it was quite a costly operation (1200 for the parts, 400 for diff replacement and 400 for the diff mod).

After all, I'd recommend to get a full diff replacement from Birds including the cover. Granted, it costs more, but any BMW shop can do the exchange, plus you can sell the spare part, which is impossible when you do it the other way.
I went to my local BMW dealer yesterday, they will give me a quote, hopefully today. Let's see.
Wavetrac confirmed by the way again they do not have a solution for the 335i DCT...
marcel b is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2010, 10:59 AM   #62
scheherazade
Major
 
Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DC metro area

Posts: 1,467
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
I went to my local BMW dealer yesterday, they will give me a quote, hopefully today. Let's see.
Wavetrac confirmed by the way again they do not have a solution for the 335i DCT...
*Quaife* has a very large line-up.
They have a front diff for the Xi, I can't imagine not having a rear for a DCT.

Wavetrac has less variety, so you may be stuck here... You may just need to get a standard 335 pumpkin and use that.

-scheherazade
scheherazade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2010, 11:07 AM   #63
stressdoc
Moderator
 
stressdoc's Avatar
 
Drives: F80 YMB, 335 E90 ZSP+
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MO

Posts: 10,050
iTrader: (0)

So, I don't get why you folks in Euro don't just chunnel or ferry over to the U.K. and spend an afternoon at Birds to get a Quaife installed? Saves mailing costs, and maybe some taxes?
stressdoc is offline   Dominica
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2010, 11:28 AM   #64
meyergru
No military grade
 
meyergru's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Munich, Germany

Posts: 544
iTrader: (0)

Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
So, I don't get why you folks in Euro don't just chunnel or ferry over to the U.K. and spend an afternoon at Birds to get a Quaife installed? Saves mailing costs, and maybe some taxes?
No taxes, this is the EU (respectively associated member state Switzerland).

But ferry cost = 100. Eurotunnel is even more. Plus Switzerland or southern Germany to GB = 600 miles (one way). That means a 9 hour drive plus 1.5 hours passage time and this is just one-way. Approximate cost for fuel only ~300, not including my own time and accommodation for the night.
__________________
meyergru is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2010, 11:33 AM   #65
stressdoc
Moderator
 
stressdoc's Avatar
 
Drives: F80 YMB, 335 E90 ZSP+
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MO

Posts: 10,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
Switzerland or southern Germany to GB = 600 miles (one way). That means a 9 hour drive plus 1.5 hours passage time and this is just one-way. Approximate cost for fuel only ~300, not including my own time and accommodation for the night.
Just toss me the keys and I'll do the drive
stressdoc is offline   Dominica
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2010, 01:57 PM   #66
ncsof18c
Night Hawk
 
ncsof18c's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NC

Posts: 91
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
How much are you guys paying for the install if you're not doing it yourself?
ncsof18c is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
335, jb3, lsd, quaife, wavetrac

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:00 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST