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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > New Sponsor Intro | SIEN Performance | Tuning Products - WITH ENGINE WARRANTY!!



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      01-06-2010, 07:00 PM   #67
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I think the concept is great, some people still pay $$$ for Dinan products to have thier warranty so for those people who wants same peace of mind of tuning thier cars should be interested in this. Plus, Proceed gives much better performance/canbus feature/reliablity(Especially with SIEN insurance) than Dinan tune.
Sounds like fair deal to me. Good luck!

P.S. Insurance option is only first 12 month coverage? Would be nice if you can extend it like 2~3 years. I hardly ever see any tuned car go wrong within 12months...tune like PROceed is proven to be pretty darn reliable.
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      01-06-2010, 07:13 PM   #68
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one of the advantages of Dinan, of course, since you are comparing yourselves to them, is the Dinan warranty is for the same terms and length of time as the factory warranty, not 12 mos with a bunch of conditions and deductibles.

Plus, many BMW dealers and independent shops are also Dinan authorized service centers for warranty work.

Maybe you get what you pay for?
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      01-06-2010, 07:23 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by chromisdesigns View Post
one of the advantages of Dinan, of course, since you are comparing yourselves to them, is the Dinan warranty is for the same terms and length of time as the factory warranty, not 12 mos with a bunch of conditions and deductibles.

Plus, many BMW dealers and independent shops are also Dinan authorized service centers for warranty work.

Maybe you get what you pay for?
I hear you. That's the ONLY advantage Dinan has "BMW honors their parts." but for the amount of money spend what you get is like not so great compare to other aftermarket products. So ye...if SIEN can come up with more extended insurance plan that would attract more customers for sure.
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      01-06-2010, 08:27 PM   #70
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Insurance option is only first 12 month coverage? Would be nice if you can extend it like 2~3 years. I hardly ever see any tuned car go wrong within 12months...tune like PROceed is proven to be pretty darn reliable.
I second this big time. Please figure out the extra premium for extending a warranty for up to as muhc as 5 years. I would be willing to pay major (subjective of course) premium for that type of longevity.
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      01-06-2010, 09:31 PM   #71
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They sure would, if people wish to retain their official warranty then I would recommend returning to stock, just like we always have. But if something happens with the turbos (or anything related), and BMW then refuse to fix based on it being a tune related fault... well at least you now have a backup plan.

If they know your car has been tuned then yep, they will cancel your warranty. But if the turbos have a whine because of the tune (i.e. the report from them and any investigations we would need to do) then yes, we would have it fixed for you.

This is a big contention, and I understand people's concerns with the whole 'fitting/un-fitting' of mods. The problem being, leave them in and run the risk of warranty denial/cancellation...

Thanks guys!
Sorry if I'm not getting this, but if a person buys a Procede from you, and installs it on their car, what is your recommendation in terms of whether to leave it in or remove it?

That they still remove it each time they go to the dealer? If you recommend they remove it, then I don't see what's the point of the "peace of mind" insurance they're paying for if they still have to worry and take them all off. With Dinan, you don't have to worry/hide anything til your BMW warranty runs out, and you go in with your tune / mods in.

If they leave it in though, they risk losing their BMW warranty, as going in with the tune, they might get picked up and denied the remainder of their warranty. What if it's their first year of owning their car? They just threw away the rest of their BMW warranty in lieu of a one year warranty from you?
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      01-07-2010, 09:27 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creaminz View Post
I think the concept is great, some people still pay $$$ for Dinan products to have thier warranty so for those people who wants same peace of mind of tuning thier cars should be interested in this. Plus, Proceed gives much better performance/canbus feature/reliablity(Especially with SIEN insurance) than Dinan tune.
Sounds like fair deal to me. Good luck!

P.S. Insurance option is only first 12 month coverage? Would be nice if you can extend it like 2~3 years. I hardly ever see any tuned car go wrong within 12months...tune like PROceed is proven to be pretty darn reliable.
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Originally Posted by chromisdesigns View Post
one of the advantages of Dinan, of course, since you are comparing yourselves to them, is the Dinan warranty is for the same terms and length of time as the factory warranty, not 12 mos with a bunch of conditions and deductibles.

Plus, many BMW dealers and independent shops are also Dinan authorized service centers for warranty work.

Maybe you get what you pay for?
You do indeed, and we can't compete with Dinan (or the BMW Performance Pack options) for the simple fact that we are offering Insurance whereas they are taking over the warranty, very different price/hp but still a great solution for those who want 100% to retain their warranty and not live on the edge.

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Originally Posted by Presidio335xi View Post
I second this big time. Please figure out the extra premium for extending a warranty for up to as muhc as 5 years. I would be willing to pay major (subjective of course) premium for that type of longevity.
This kind of feedback is invaluable to us, we will be looking at the numbers for extending the coverage over the next week or two and updating the site. As we do with any alteration/addition all current customers will be offered the same options.

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Sorry if I'm not getting this, but if a person buys a Procede from you, and installs it on their car, what is your recommendation in terms of whether to leave it in or remove it?

That they still remove it each time they go to the dealer? If you recommend they remove it, then I don't see what's the point of the "peace of mind" insurance they're paying for if they still have to worry and take them all off. With Dinan, you don't have to worry/hide anything til your BMW warranty runs out, and you go in with your tune / mods in.

If they leave it in though, they risk losing their BMW warranty, as going in with the tune, they might get picked up and denied the remainder of their warranty. What if it's their first year of owning their car? They just threw away the rest of their BMW warranty in lieu of a one year warranty from you?
Hi Glowin, I think the simplest explanation I could give would be that the Peace of Mind relates to the scenario of 'engine goes boom, BMW drop you like a hot potato'. It doesn't relate to the Warranty, as we aren't offering a takover Warranty like Dinan.

With our product we aren't touching anything to do with the warranty, customers will be in exactly the same situation they are in now with regards to trying to keep their official warranty in tact... we say simply if the worst should happen, would a small premium on the parts you were going to buy anyway be worth the idea of someone helping out with a major bill if it occured.

From our personal experience with the mentality of BMW owners who do tune their cars... well, we do live on the edge a little and push the envelope of what we can do with our cars. The warranty retaining options are great for those guys who don't fit into that group, but we wanted to create something that gives tuners a bit of that security too while still being affordable enough to 'give it a go'.

Paul
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      01-07-2010, 11:38 AM   #73
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I like the idea of a cheap insurance in case of mishaps . If we look into a specific scenario, which will happen sooner or later, how would this be handled by you within the conditions for the $200 insurance?

1. A customer buys a Procede and some other tuning stuff from you, including the insurance that is included in parts price, which is the reason they cost more than from other sources.

2. After a while, the turbos starts to make noise that must be fixed. We all know that the tune will not damage the turbos as long as it is properly installed and used per instructions. The turbos will not melt down or wear too fast by a properly used Procede or due to DP's or anything else that is in your tuning kits. You know it as well as most others on this forum. I guess your first step would be to get a good understanding about what has actually happened, and the outcome if everything seems to be normal would be to recommend the customer to remove the tune, clear codes and bring the car to the BMW dealer for warranty repair.

3. The customer forgets or just neglects to remove the Procede or clear tuner codes, and BMW therefore rejects any warranty claims

Will the guy be covered for new turbos and labour by your insurance/warranty or not?

And how will it ever be possible for a customer to meet this requiremet in the warranty clauses?
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      01-07-2010, 11:50 AM   #74
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There is a deductible involved but this is simply to cut down on the unfortunate few that try to defraud the insurance system, you'll find it in most insurance coverages... but, as our insurance will be mainly to cover serious stuff running into the thousands we don't think that's a lot to ask.
Good luck with this. I haven't read the entire thread, so someone else may have made these points.

Selling insurance with parts is a great idea, but your reference to the 'unfortunate few' who would defraud should read 'the vast majority'.
Read the threads about those seeking to obscure what they've done to their cars to get factory warranty even though they've run the engine outside the performance envelope the warranty is intended to cover. I understand that well-implemented mods do not necessarily damage the engine, but there is no guarantee that things are done right when there is no control on who designs and implements the upgrade path.

The unfortunate part is that so many people are unwilling to pay to play. Heck, they're already complaining about the price of your insurance.

Good luck! I hope this flies for you, but you've got the cheapskate and fraudster factor working against you.

Cheers,
Dan
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      01-07-2010, 11:53 AM   #75
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Guys,

I think you have a great idea here, but feel as though you are only taking it half way. Just recently I picked up an '09 335 and would love to have it tuned, but fear the warrenty will be voided. To me, even a 12 month "insuance policy" does not justify the cost of losing the warrently. I'd love to have a Dinan tune, but won't spend close to $4000 for the tune and oil cooler. Several threads back it was mentioned that you have extensive experience with tunes...in my mind, why not develop your own tune, get BMW's support as did Dinan, provide a 4yr/50,000 mile warrenty and sell it for less. As I see it, Dinan is the only company offering a tune with a 4 yr warrently...they can charge whatever they want. Why not povide Dinan with some freindly competition.

Just my .02.

John
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      01-07-2010, 12:53 PM   #76
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Will the guy be covered for new turbos and labour by your insurance/warranty or not?
Yes, if the conditions of the insurance are met absolutely.

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Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
And how will it ever be possible for a customer to meet this requiremet in the warranty clauses?
This in most cases will be the report given by BMW or whichever tech has looked at the car. Like I said earlier, this is a worst case scenario thing, not the first port of call if something goes wrong (for the cost we hope people understand why).
At the end of the day the extra thing we offer is still insurance, and if anyone has any experience with a claim of any kind they will know its usually not fun. We of course have to attempt to control fraudulent claims, just like any insurer, but at least we are very knowledgable about the specific vehicle and parts we cover. It is just the one car, and one engine afterall.

Ultimately there is no way any insurer in the world will give you a black and white answer, unfortunately claims are seldom that simple. But I can say we are here for our customers, and share their interests and concerns.

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Good luck with this. I haven't read the entire thread, so someone else may have made these points.

Selling insurance with parts is a great idea, but your reference to the 'unfortunate few' who would defraud should read 'the vast majority'.
Read the threads about those seeking to obscure what they've done to their cars to get factory warranty even though they've run the engine outside the performance envelope the warranty is intended to cover. I understand that well-implemented mods do not necessarily damage the engine, but there is no guarantee that things are done right when there is no control on who designs and implements the upgrade path.

The unfortunate part is that so many people are unwilling to pay to play. Heck, they're already complaining about the price of your insurance.

Good luck! I hope this flies for you, but you've got the cheapskate and fraudster factor working against you.

Cheers,
Dan
Thanks Dan

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Guys,

I think you have a great idea here, but feel as though you are only taking it half way. Just recently I picked up an '09 335 and would love to have it tuned, but fear the warrenty will be voided. To me, even a 12 month "insuance policy" does not justify the cost of losing the warrently. I'd love to have a Dinan tune, but won't spend close to $4000 for the tune and oil cooler. Several threads back it was mentioned that you have extensive experience with tunes...in my mind, why not develop your own tune, get BMW's support as did Dinan, provide a 4yr/50,000 mile warrenty and sell it for less. As I see it, Dinan is the only company offering a tune with a 4 yr warrently...they can charge whatever they want. Why not povide Dinan with some freindly competition.

Just my .02.

John
Cheers John I understand where you are coming from, although the Dinan route is already done and we gather BMW are pretty much trying to fill that market for themselves with their performance division. So for 'tunes' that retain full warranty, you already have 2 choices.

The sheer overall cost of fully covering a car for that period, at the level of manufacturer (or the limited and conditioned warranty from Dinan) is significant, Dinan actually are very reasonable in their pricing I believe.

Even so, we are at completely different ends of the spectrum. We don't offer a warranty service such as Dinan (or a warranty), simply a raindy day insurance with the products that we sell.
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      01-07-2010, 02:28 PM   #77
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Bottom line is there is no need to buy an insurance for a car or its parts that is under warranty from BMW or any other trusty manufacturer. There is also no reason whatsoever to believe the Procede, AR DPs, intakes and so forth from highly respected companies will induce direct faults to the car, as long as the items are used per instructions, and with the necessary technical understanding and common sense.

The marketing of ridiculous insurances in general, with no need for and a lot of practical limiting clauses, has grown a lot during last years since the price competition is too hard many times to run a business and keep the wolfs from the doorstep. This has driven many companies to sell insurances that will boost the profit, without giving any benefits at all to customers. Whether the SIEN-insurance appears to fall into this category or not is up to each individual to conclude.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck though, but think the entry with very high prices and a new type of insurance may not have been the best move to introduce a new business.
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      01-07-2010, 02:46 PM   #78
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Bottom line is there is no need to buy an insurance for a car or its parts that is under warranty from BMW or any other trusty manufacturer.
If that was true, Dinan wouldn't exist. They're not replacing BMW's warranty, they're just saying in case BMW doesn't cover you, you now have a backup plan. They still suggest you do everything to KEEP your BMW warranty in tact (that was part of the questions I was asking above). If for some reason, BMW denies you (let's say for some reason they found out you had a tune), then you have these guys to fall back on.

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Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
The marketing of ridiculous insurances in general, with no need for and a lot of practical limiting clauses, has grown a lot during last years since the price competition is too hard many times to run a business and keep the wolfs from the doorstep. This has driven many companies to sell insurances that will boost the profit, without giving any benefits at all to customers. Whether the SIEN-insurance appears to fall into this category or not is up to each individual to conclude.
Dude, I think you need to take it down a notch... it's one thing to be asking questions about their business in the interest of how it will work and to determine whether it will appeal to you, but you keep trashing their business plan without providing any constructive criticism. Calling it "ridiculous insurance" is going too far IMO.

They seem to be geniune to me, and are going about selling mods in a different way than others.

If every new vendor with a new idea who came on to the board faced this much hostility and backlash, we wouldn't have many who would bother going out of their way to come up with something new for fear of the uproar here... Sheesh. Just trying to keep it a bit positive
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      01-07-2010, 02:47 PM   #79
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Bottom line is there is no need to buy an insurance for a car or its parts that is under warranty from BMW or any other trusty manufacturer. There is also no reason whatsoever to believe the Procede, AR DPs, intakes and so forth from highly respected companies will induce direct faults to the car, as long as the items are used per instructions, and with the necessary technical understanding and common sense.

The marketing of ridiculous insurances in general, with no need for and a lot of practical limiting clauses, has grown a lot during last years since the price competition is too hard many times to run a business and keep the wolfs from the doorstep. This has driven many companies to sell insurances that will boost the profit, without giving any benefits at all to customers. Whether the SIEN-insurance appears to fall into this category or not is up to each individual to conclude.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck though, but think the entry with very high prices and a new type of insurance may not have been the best move to introduce a new business.
As you say, it is up to the individual to decide whether the price is worth it to them. We are not out to swindle anyone unnecessarily. If nothing ever went wrong with the engine that would be great, but it does and sometimes that can (and I can say that conclusively) be routed back to adding almost 50% more power to an engine.

Insurance is a subjective thing, some people don't feel the need, others do. We now offer another option and personally don't feel a few hundred dollars is a 'very high price' to pay for it. Regarding the insurance, we believe our target market would like this service and yes, believe strongly there is a need.

You obviously don't feel it necessary and that's your opinion, I'm not sure of your history and experience with the N54 but we know we are offering a very legitimate and hopefully desired service, and to those looking for it we hope we have got the mix correct.
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      01-07-2010, 02:50 PM   #80
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Dude, I think you need to take it down a notch... it's one thing to be asking questions about their business in the interest of how it will work and to determine whether it will appeal to you, but you keep trashing their business plan without providing any constructive criticism. Calling it "ridiculous insurance" is going too far IMO.

They seem to be geniune to me, and are going about selling mods in a different way than others.

If every new vendor with a new idea who came on to the board faced this much hostility and backlash, we wouldn't have many who would bother going out of their way to come up with something new for fear of the uproar here... Sheesh. Just trying to keep it a bit positive
Phew, thanks Glowin Baptism of fire indeed.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, it doesn't fit everyone's needs but obviously it's not nice to hear it being trashed. We have all poured so much into this company - the idea of working with something you love is everyone's dream I'd imagine and we are trying to realise that while giving something back to the community.


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      01-07-2010, 03:49 PM   #81
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Baptism of fire indeed.
Heh, welcome to E90post.
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      01-07-2010, 03:50 PM   #82
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They should not be flamed for having a novel idea. I wish your company the best of luck!!!
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      01-07-2010, 03:55 PM   #83
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They should not be flamed for having a novel idea. I wish your company the best of luck!!!
x2. The amount of haters/flamers on here is insane and out of control..... If you don't like his product, then don't buy it!

Personally, I think a warranty covering modification related failures is a pretty darn good idea, and pretty cheap at that! As Shiv said, everyone gripes about paying hundreds of dollars for mod install/uninstall, but then gripes even more about paying a few hundred for a warranty to cover the mods? LOL.
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      01-07-2010, 04:07 PM   #84
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They should not be flamed for having a novel idea. I wish your company the best of luck!!!
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x2. The amount of haters/flamers on here is insane and out of control..... If you don't like his product, then don't buy it!

Personally, I think a warranty covering modification related failures is a pretty darn good idea, and pretty cheap at that! As Shiv said, everyone gripes about paying hundreds of dollars for mod install/uninstall, but then gripes even more about paying a few hundred for a warranty to cover the mods? LOL.
Thanks guys, appreciate the support
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      01-07-2010, 06:35 PM   #85
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I'm all for saving my money and spending it wisely, but it's not like we're driving $15,000 cars here and $100 is going to break your piggybank. Considering how much our cars cost, some of us sound like a bunch of cheap-tards (new word!) running around whining all the time about a few bucks... Get a Civic if you can't afford to mod a $50,000 car! The cost of mods is proportional to the cost of the car. Should've known that when you decided to get a BMW.

PS Mr. Ridiculous "Drama" Insurance, are you a gangsta rapper by any chance? Is this your album cover?


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      01-08-2010, 09:30 AM   #86
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I'm all for saving my money and spending it wisely, but it's not like we're driving $15,000 cars here and $100 is going to break your piggybank. Considering how much our cars cost, some of us sound like a bunch of cheap-tards (new word!) running around whining all the time about a few bucks... Get a Civic if you can't afford to mod a $50,000 car! The cost of mods is proportional to the cost of the car. Should've known that when you decided to get a BMW.

PS Mr. Ridiculous "Drama" Insurance, are you a gangsta rapper by any chance? Is this your album cover?
LOL
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      01-08-2010, 11:53 AM   #87
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I'm all for saving my money and spending it wisely, but it's not like we're driving $15,000 cars here and $100 is going to break your piggybank. Considering how much our cars cost, some of us sound like a bunch of cheap-tards (new word!) running around whining all the time about a few bucks... Get a Civic if you can't afford to mod a $50,000 car! The cost of mods is proportional to the cost of the car. Should've known that when you decided to get a BMW.

PS Mr. Ridiculous "Drama" Insurance, are you a gangsta rapper by any chance? Is this your album cover?

Maybe once most of you move out of your parents house and understand the value of a dollar and you'll see things in a different light. Just because I make a decent amount of money doesn't mean I throw my money around frivolously.
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      01-08-2010, 12:08 PM   #88
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I'm all for saving my money and spending it wisely, but it's not like we're driving $15,000 cars here and $100 is going to break your piggybank. Considering how much our cars cost, some of us sound like a bunch of cheap-tards (new word!) running around whining all the time about a few bucks... Get a Civic if you can't afford to mod a $50,000 car! The cost of mods is proportional to the cost of the car. Should've known that when you decided to get a BMW.

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