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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Do Active Autowerke AP2's lead to HPFP issues and DSC/DTC issues?



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      01-10-2010, 09:38 PM   #1
Adam Way
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Do Active Autowerke AP2's lead to HPFP issues and DSC/DTC issues?

I have a 2009 335 xi. I have two unrelated questions.

1. I installed an Active Autowerke AP2 this weekend after having a tremendous amount of issues with their first generation. The install of their new unit was simple and easy (relatively speaking). I spent Saturday testing the unit and it's capabilities. I know that their is a bit of a learning curve for any piggy back set-ups. However, I found that when drifting corners, or accelerating hard into corners, that I can get the vehicle to enter limp mode. I think that the DSC/DTC detects the unit and doesn't know what to do, or possibly that it cannot handle much more than the stock amount of horsepower. Under DTC mode it is better, but I can still get the unit to trip. If I hold down the DTC button for ~4 sec and put it in "fun mode", I do not have any issues. Is this normal with most tuners? Is this just an issue for XI owners and not I owners?

2. Today at 18K miles, I drove normally to run a few errands. I never exceeded 40 miles an hour. When I went to start my vehicle, it wouldn't start. I am getting a yellow indicator light and explanation point with 4x4 and the yellow brake light illuiminated. I tried several more times to start vehicle and it eventually started. I am led to believe this is a HPFP issue. However given that I just installed the AP2 yesterday, I am not convinced. I haven't had any warning signals that the HPFP is starting to fail. My vehicle always has started right away and I haven't had any loss of power feelings in the past. Both are normal indicators for HPFP from what I know...

I tired to pull OBD-II codes, but my reader seems to only work when the engine is running and I can't seem to get my vehicle to start again. Any thoughts on either of these issues?

Thanks in advance!

Adam Way
Colorado Springs, CO
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      01-10-2010, 09:42 PM   #2
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I had no idea that they even came out with a new tune or updated one....I think you maybe the only person that has this tune at the moment...I think you should call them directly for some answers...
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      01-10-2010, 09:44 PM   #3
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I had to read your entire post to figure out what you were even talking about. You're the first person that I've read that has used their piggy.

When your tire spins with traction control on it will eventually drop boost and cut power to regain traction. If your car doesnt start than there can be any infinite amount of problems. You need to start with the most recent mods and issues and go back. Most recent being you may have screwed up the install. Remove it and figure it out.
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      01-10-2010, 10:17 PM   #4
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it could be triggering the torque limiter...... but I would expect the piggyback to alter that signal properly

Is the AP2 compatible with the LCI?
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      01-10-2010, 10:21 PM   #5
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cn555ic,

They have come out with an Active Processor 2 now. It is quite a bit nicer than their older model that I had installed previously. The problem with the older model is that it has issues with the late model 335i BMW software. It works fine with the old models (07 and early model 08). I worked with them and uploaded several custom tunes in hopes of making the old system work with no luck. So they nicely sent me the newer unit. The new unit worked great yesterday and comes preloaded with 8 tunes. I use tune 3 of 8.


JayKay335i,

I am suprised that more users on this forum wouldn't be using their piggy. It is relatively cheap modification from a good company.

I am 100 percent confident that the install is correct. Given that I really drove it hard yesterday reassures me of that. If one were to look at the unit, it would be hard to screw up the install given the detailed instructions.

On the DSC/DTC when the system is operating normally, it will cut power in order to regain traction and this is normal. However, this is very different than having it enter limp mode and throw codes (indicator lights). Entering limp mode is what I am referring to for clarification.

Thank you both for your thoughts and feedback.
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      01-10-2010, 10:36 PM   #6
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Turkish335,

I would *assume* that a piggyback would let the BMW computer think that hitting a torque limiter is normal under a specific tune and therefore effectively overide the BMW system from thinking their is something wrong... However, mine is an all-wheel drive unit and less common than a RWD unit. Thus, I have no idea if they every tested the unit on an xi model. I hope so...

As far as your LCI question. I *think* the reason for the AP2 was that the LCI caused issues for the original unit, therefore creating a necessity for a newer unit to work with the LCI updates... Not positive though on my logic/knowledge on this though.

Thanks for your feedback.
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      01-10-2010, 11:55 PM   #7
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Not many people run it because at $800, you're up there with all the other piggy backs. Except the others are constantly updating, constantly doing custom tuning and producing more maps while giving the user the ability to update as well. For the power and money, IMHO, there are better options.

Check to make sure you're on the correct map setting. When you get the errors, do you have to shut your car off and restart it or do they just quickly flash on the screen for split second and disappear?
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      01-11-2010, 01:21 PM   #8
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Today I found out that with the AA processor that it is completely normal to have the vehicle throw codes if you do not manually deactive the DSC/DTC completely before driving. The vehicle has "too much" power for the system to handle and the piggy back does not out smart the computer to think things are okay. So if anyone search the post in the future I thought it would be helpful to note that.

As far as question #2 goes, it was merely coincedence that after installing the processor that the vehicle failed. It was the dreaded fuel pump and not related to the install.

Adam
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      01-11-2010, 01:25 PM   #9
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2008 E90 335i  [0.00]
http://activeautowerke.com/viewprodu...x?id=Product96

looks familiar lol weird
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      01-11-2010, 03:54 PM   #10
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I hope it wasn't AA that told you that because it is completely untrue. If your car throws codes its because there is something wrong with the tuning. There are hundreds, if not thousands of us running upwards of 500 horsepower on these cars with no issues with "having too much power" for the ecu to handle.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Way View Post
Today I found out that with the AA processor that it is completely normal to have the vehicle throw codes if you do not manually deactive the DSC/DTC completely before driving. The vehicle has "too much" power for the system to handle and the piggy back does not out smart the computer to think things are okay. So if anyone search the post in the future I thought it would be helpful to note that.

As far as question #2 goes, it was merely coincedence that after installing the processor that the vehicle failed. It was the dreaded fuel pump and not related to the install.

Adam
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      01-11-2010, 08:59 PM   #11
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sd309r,

Not sure what your post is referring to. That is in fact the link to the unit we are talking about. "Reliable and compatible with latest BMW Factory software uploads", riiiiigggghhhhhtttt...


Jcarlucci1,


AA told me that if I didn't completely turn off the DSC/DTC that it would cause issues with warning lamps, etc. Basically the Explanation point inside of a triagle with 4x4 underneith emblem will appear and the vehicle's power will be reduced until you re-start the vehicle. Basically making it worthless to have a high power vehicle if every time you take a corner fast you either have to have the vehicle without DSC/DTC or have to inconveniently pull over and re-start vehicle. Is this the "reliable" part of the quote above...lol.

After everything was all said and done today it was NOT my fuel pump. Rather the piggy back floods the vehicle when it is trying to start according to the dealerships diagnosis.

Any other tuners/controllers/piggy backs have the same problem?

I wish I would have done substantially more research before buying the AP2. I regret my purchase.

Adam
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      01-11-2010, 10:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Way View Post
sd309r,

Not sure what your post is referring to. That is in fact the link to the unit we are talking about. "Reliable and compatible with latest BMW Factory software uploads", riiiiigggghhhhhtttt...


Jcarlucci1,


AA told me that if I didn't completely turn off the DSC/DTC that it would cause issues with warning lamps, etc. Basically the Explanation point inside of a triagle with 4x4 underneith emblem will appear and the vehicle's power will be reduced until you re-start the vehicle. Basically making it worthless to have a high power vehicle if every time you take a corner fast you either have to have the vehicle without DSC/DTC or have to inconveniently pull over and re-start vehicle. Is this the "reliable" part of the quote above...lol.

After everything was all said and done today it was NOT my fuel pump. Rather the piggy back floods the vehicle when it is trying to start according to the dealerships diagnosis.

Any other tuners/controllers/piggy backs have the same problem?

I wish I would have done substantially more research before buying the AP2. I regret my purchase.

Adam
hmm hope you still have a warranty bro. Either its not compatible with the AWD ECU signals or the AP2 is not working properly. There are TQ limits that the ECU compares the actual TQ to, and if its over, it will limp (specifically with a "!" symbol). I suspect the JB and Proceed (as well as various flashes) modify the check signal to not trip over these thresholds..
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      01-11-2010, 10:29 PM   #13
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No. Thats the only tune on the market with those types of problems. Maybe thats why nobodies running it. Besides, its antiquated and expensive. Like buying a SSTT2 for a grand.

Sell it or return it since it apparently doesn't work with the newest models and pick up one of the more used tunes or a flash.
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      01-11-2010, 10:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKay335i View Post
No. Thats the only tune on the market with those types of problems. Maybe thats why nobodies running it. Besides, its antiquated and expensive. Like buying a SSTT2 for a grand.

Sell it or return it since it apparently doesn't work with the newest models and pick up one of the more used tunes or a flash.
+1
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      01-12-2010, 12:10 AM   #15
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Sounds like AA great customer service to me, ya its normal for codes to be thrown when you get on the throttle. Wow and it tries to drown the engine in gas on start up. I would suggest never buying from them from my past personal expierence and my friends expierience with them. Good luck and I hope you get your car figured out. Definatly look at procede and jb3 for piggybacks. For flash tunes look at Giac. You can't go wrong with any of those.
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      01-12-2010, 12:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Way View Post
sd309r,

Not sure what your post is referring to. That is in fact the link to the unit we are talking about. "Reliable and compatible with latest BMW Factory software uploads", riiiiigggghhhhhtttt...


Jcarlucci1,


AA told me that if I didn't completely turn off the DSC/DTC that it would cause issues with warning lamps, etc. Basically the Explanation point inside of a triagle with 4x4 underneith emblem will appear and the vehicle's power will be reduced until you re-start the vehicle. Basically making it worthless to have a high power vehicle if every time you take a corner fast you either have to have the vehicle without DSC/DTC or have to inconveniently pull over and re-start vehicle. Is this the "reliable" part of the quote above...lol.

After everything was all said and done today it was NOT my fuel pump. Rather the piggy back floods the vehicle when it is trying to start according to the dealerships diagnosis.

Any other tuners/controllers/piggy backs have the same problem?

I wish I would have done substantially more research before buying the AP2. I regret my purchase.

Adam

You went in with the AA piggy installed?? Braver than I sir.
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      01-12-2010, 01:09 AM   #17
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Hmmm... If you showed up to the dealer with the piggyback installed still, you've got a pretty good chance that they'll be revoking your warranty in the future. Better hope nobody noted the problem.
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      01-12-2010, 09:05 AM   #18
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Get a refund on the AA..you'll get nothing but lies and dishonesty from them. The AA processor is brand new and already obsolete
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      01-12-2010, 10:56 AM   #19
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The AP2 is a new product, but there are already around 100 currently in use problem free. Adam has what are obvious fuel pump symptoms with long cranking and the next step in the diagnostic process is to replace that pump. The dealers assertion that the problem is "too much fuel" while cranking is ridiculous. Generally racing around with DTC on will not trigger a CEL, but there are so many variables here including the new install and the failing fuel pump that we will need to continue troubleshooting with Adam to sort it all out.

edit: After reading the posts again there was obviously some misunderstanding between us and the customer. I called Adam and will speak to him when he returns my call. Thanks everyone.
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      01-12-2010, 10:09 PM   #20
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I have mixed emotions on this deal and really value everyone's feedback. I come from years of modifying all sorts of vehicles extensively. Drag racing a diesel drag truck and a rock buggy that is competitive with race rigs. 100K+ into each vehicle. I used to manage a 4x4 shop in Durango and am used to having *some* issues with aftermarket parts. However, I am brand new to the BMW space, and feel out of my eliment with all of the electronics associated with the vehicle. Definitely not my strong point.

Omar at AA has been great. He truly cares and is excellent at calling me back. Their tuner Barry has been a complete PITA. I have left him ~30 messages over the last 7 months with only 1 return call. I feel like a stage 5 clinger just trying to connect with him. No exageration at all here. I talked with one of the part owners today and he said that he will make things right. I am now 7 months into a deal and have installed the unit 5 times. Requires partial uninstall in old unit to update files. They are now asking me to uninstall it again to remove the AA unit from the equation to definitively diagnose if in fact my issues are from this unit. It seems to make sense, but it takes me ~2 to 3 hours to undo heat shrink, etc. and bring back the vehicle to stock. If I take this unit out like they are suggesting, I really don't want to go through the hassle of putting it in again. After driving home from dealership last night and cancelling my entire day of appointents from lack of transportation ($$$) the vehicle worked fine. Now today driving home from work...guess what...same issue. Ugh!

I haven't been told my warranty is voided yet... However the dealership is aware of the unit and have record of the install. So I am guessing if I have any major expensive issues in the future I will be screwed.

When asking the specific question to the part owner of AA "what does make it right mean in this scenario", he didn't have a specific answer. Given the ordeal, I feel that for the time, energy, lack of warranty now, etc. that they should be willing to swap this straight across with no extra money for something that can't cause me serious issues (E.g. exhaust). Do you guys think that is reasonable to make such a request?

I have trust issues with dealership (obviously) and am skeptical with AA. They swore up and down that their old processor works with my vehicle and later admitted that with the BMW update that it did not and they didn't know that. Dealership saying piggyback is the issue, AA saying that it is my fuel pump which is a known problem. Who to believe??? The dealership says that when fuel pumps start to go that they often throw a service engine light and that this can be read by the OBD-II. AA says that without removing the fuel pump that there really isn't anyway to definitely know that there is a problem with it.

I have attached two pictures of the codes I am getting and also of what the wires look like on the piggy back. They claim the install takes there techs ~30 minutes. I must be VERY slow at working on vehicles relative to them.

Adam
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      01-12-2010, 11:46 PM   #21
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Check out some of the DIY install threads on the Berger Motor Sports site or in the DIY section here for the other piggy backs. It seems to take most members around here ~30 minutes to install a piggy into the ECU. Slightly longer for the pin out versions.
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      01-12-2010, 11:46 PM   #22
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those lights arn't from a bad fuel pump that I know of check your owners manual to see if that combanation of lights is anything fuel related. I would just ask for a complete refund from AA and just stay away from them they are a terrible company. Good luck agian with your car
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