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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > HPF Enters the 135i/335i Market With Their New 335i Intercooler - VIDEO and PICTURES



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      01-22-2010, 11:18 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Humtek View Post
I like the extra support braces and was curious why some of the others haven't thought about this. When installing my Helix I was a little skeptical if the stock mounts (which seem like plastic) and stock plumping would be able to hold up the beast of a FMIC that the Helix is. I believe the weight of the two is very similar also. I also would like to know why the stock connections were used? It seems like even something that I have on the Helix seems to have better flow. Never the less it looks like a promising product and I look forward to HPF's future projects.
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      01-22-2010, 11:21 PM   #90
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Especially if it is suppose to support 650rwhp, the stock connectors seem restricting. Not doubting the product, just an observation.
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      01-22-2010, 11:55 PM   #91
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Especially if it is suppose to support 650rwhp, the stock connectors seem restricting. Not doubting the product, just an observation.
+1...several companies mentioned they could've implemented stock C-clip connection easily but chose not to, in favor of larger and smoother flowing silicon coupler connection. I'll reserve my judgement on the HPF FMIC until an explanation is given on this.
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      01-23-2010, 12:42 PM   #92
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I completely agree and it looks like from the specs of this IC that the progression will lead somewhere close to 650 rwhp. otherwise why design it to such a high spec. I really like this product and will probably put it on my list of mods to come. My only question is I do not like the fact that I have to cut the shroud. Is there any way to just remove it instead of cutting it ? I don't mind cutting it but I do not have the tools to do that so it would force me to have this easy install done by someone else thus defeating the purpose of an easy install. I am very anxious to see what is next in the line of progression. Are there typical stages that are considered Stage 1-5
? is this considered stage 1?
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      01-23-2010, 01:12 PM   #93
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I think stage 1 is basically going to be full bolt ons a tune, stage 2 is where it gets interesting
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      01-23-2010, 01:22 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen_E92 View Post
+1...several companies mentioned they could've implemented stock C-clip connection easily but chose not to, in favor of larger and smoother flowing silicon coupler connection. I'll reserve my judgement on the HPF FMIC until an explanation is given on this.
+ to hear HPF's take on this. Given it's HPF I bet it will hold water.

And yes, some of the vendors have really heavily marketed the idea of not using the stock couplers. While they appear more restrictive then new tubing, exactly what that restriction equates to in real world power difference has never been clear.

Now that HPF has gone with using stock couplers and claiming 650+hp capacity I'm willing to bet it aint that great a difference.
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      01-23-2010, 02:16 PM   #95
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hi Chris... I respect HPF very much. one of my friend got his e46 upgraded to 2.5 stage, and he's very very happy about it!! he imported a 2.5 kit directly to Taiwan. he's a happy customer of yours.

with all the respect, i don't know much about IC... but is there a pressure drop during high speed? why is the boost level is lower than stock IC after 95mph?
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      01-24-2010, 06:59 PM   #96
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hi Chris... I respect HPF very much. one of my friend got his e46 upgraded to 2.5 stage, and he's very very happy about it!! he imported a 2.5 kit directly to Taiwan. he's a happy customer of yours.

with all the respect, i don't know much about IC... but is there a pressure drop during high speed? why is the boost level is lower than stock IC after 95mph?
You will often see slight variations in boost from pull to pull. What's impressive is that the HPF FMIC made more power with less boost. We've done a lot of testing on this same type of core with our M3 turbo kits with pressure and temperature sensors right before and after the core. The HPF 335i core is slightly "larger" than the core we run in our E46 M3 stage 3 turbo kit that makes 820rwhp. We will some day maximize the core volume and cooling capacity of our 335i intercooler but we wanted to design it large enough so our customers wouldn't have to change out their intercooler as they move up in power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtek
And yes, some of the vendors have really heavily marketed the idea of not using the stock couplers. While they appear more restrictive then new tubing, exactly what that restriction equates to in real world power difference has never been clear.

Now that HPF has gone with using stock couplers and claiming 650+hp capacity I'm willing to bet it aint that great a difference.
We are selling the HPF 335i intercoolers with and without the factory coupler ends. The option to not use the factory coupler ends will be around $100 cheaper. The factory IC piping is actually very ingenious and I don't see a reason to replace it until you go with a big single turbo. The internal diameters are the same whether you go with the quick disconnect factory piping or whether you run a silicon coupler on the end with a t-bolt clamp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Harney
I completely agree and it looks like from the specs of this IC that the progression will lead somewhere close to 650 rwhp. otherwise why design it to such a high spec. I really like this product and will probably put it on my list of mods to come. My only question is I do not like the fact that I have to cut the shroud. Is there any way to just remove it instead of cutting it ? I don't mind cutting it but I do not have the tools to do that so it would force me to have this easy install done by someone else thus defeating the purpose of an easy install. I am very anxious to see what is next in the line of progression. Are there typical stages that are considered Stage 1-5
? is this considered stage 1?
We will do a similar progression with the 135/335/535 as we did with the M3 with the exception that we hope to leave the programming open source so our customers will be able to use parts from other vendors and make their own custom tunes. We have an amazing intake manifold that will be coming out in the next few months that will allow people to make the big power numbers everyone wants, and we will be releasing an exhaust system as well. We are also going to look at the engine to make it stronger and better able to withstand the forces we're going to be exerting on it. I'd ultimately like to see that magical 1,000rwhp power figure out of this car but it will likely take us a couple years to get there. In the meantime, we will start with our staged kits that allow people to advance their cars over time.
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      01-24-2010, 07:01 PM   #97
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Hey Chris,

Where was the FMIC made in?
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      01-24-2010, 07:19 PM   #98
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Hey Chris,

Where was the FMIC made in?
Well, we have spent several years shopping for intercooler cores. Sometimes you can see right through some of the intercooler cores on the market. This is because the fins in the core are not offset from one another from row to row and some cores are not as densly packed as others. You want the greatest possible chance of the air molecules hitting the intercooler fins as they travel down the length of the intercooler core. This provides the greatest cooling capability. This is one of the reasons our cores weigh a bit more than others. We tried several cores from several different locations in the US and in other countries before we found the ones we use today. And we've kept our intercooler core source confidential.

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      01-24-2010, 07:58 PM   #99
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I'd ultimately like to see that magical 1,000rwhp power figure out of this car


Looks like I'm keeping this car for a while
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      01-24-2010, 08:11 PM   #100
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Looks like I'm keeping this car for a while
your telling me? I was about to sell my car.. then David@ HPF sends me an e-mail... -_- Hey we released our intercooler.. 5 minutes later.. bought it..
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      01-25-2010, 11:30 AM   #101
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My only question is I do not like the fact that I have to cut the shroud. Is there any way to just remove it instead of cutting it ? I don't mind cutting it but I do not have the tools to do that so it would force me to have this easy install done by someone else thus defeating the purpose of an easy install. I am very anxious to see what is next in the line of progression. Are there typical stages that are considered Stage 1-5
? is this considered stage 1?
Chris any word on either taking the shroud out or cost of replacing it? I assume if you can replace it you should be able to take it out.

Is this going to be what you consider Stage 1 or is this just a prep for stage1 ?
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      01-26-2010, 01:36 PM   #102
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Thanks for the questions and comments.

Cross sectional air flow

As you can see from the pictures below, the 335i turbos outlets are very small (only 1.0" in internal diameter). The IC piping expands to 2.0" in internal diameter where the two sections are combined. The accordian type rubber hose on the end with the C-clip is 2.0" in internal diameter until the end where it is 1.75".

We can compare the flow ratings for the two long 1.0" ID sections to the 1.75" connector at the end by comparing the cross sectional area which is 3.14159 X R X R (where R is the radius). The cross sectional area of the two 1.0" ID sections is 1.57 square inches whereas the cross sectional area of the end that connects to the intercooler is 2.40 square inches (52% more flow).

IMO.. Unless the entire IC piping is replaced (which we will do with our stage 2 single turbo upgrade), the benefits to replacing the small accordian section of hosing that easily connects and disconnects to the intercooler without replacing the entire turbo to intercooler piping is negligible. Replacing the intercooler piping itself (which is quite efficient for the size of turbos the 335i is using) is not a product we want to make because we don't feel the consumer will get any added value for the money they will pay and the installation is quite a bit more involved that people would expect.

Here are some pictures I took of the factory turbo to intercooler piping...
















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      01-26-2010, 01:58 PM   #103
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good pic ^

have you guys found the stock couplers to hold higher levels of boost ok? I've found a few cars with leaks at that location when installing intercoolers.
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      01-26-2010, 02:00 PM   #104
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Hi Chris,

I know this is asking a bit much but are there any estimates on the future HPF stage 1 and 2 kits? Approximately how many stacks are we talking for S2?
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      01-26-2010, 04:42 PM   #105
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Can't wait to see this beast in action at Mfest
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HorsepowerFreaks Sponsors E90Post.com

For those that don't know who we are, I wanted to introduce myself since I am relatively new to this forum. My name is Chris Bergemann and I'm the owner of HorsepowerFreaks. We are proud to be sponsoring E90post.com and look forward to working with the E90post forum and their staff to introduce many new projects and applications that we will be bringing to market over the next several years for the BMW 135i/335i enthusiast.

Over the next few years, I hope to share a lot of what we've learned through our E9X project development as we did for the E46 M3 on e46fanatics.com and bimmerforums.com. We took the E46 M3 from 270rwhp to 1022rwhp through 5 bolt-on stages and hope to offer a similar set of stages for the 135i and 335i platforms. We are currently in development of our stage 1 (BPU) upgrade which includes an intercooler, exhaust system and "end user" programmable engine management. We hope to have our first stage 1 335i on display at MFest 2010 in April.

BMW 135i/335i Front Mount Intercooler

Specifics

We just completed and tested our BMW 135i/335i Front Mount Intercooler. We designed the HorsepowerFreaks 135i/335i intercoolers to set the high bar in performance, reliability, ease of installation, durability and visual appeal. Our intercoolers are 87% larger than the factory intercooler and pick up a sizeable 10-30rwhp at just 11psi while showing even greater gains when other power adders are used. These are the largest aftermarket intercoolers on the market for the 135i and 335i that fit within the factory location. Our cores are 20.25 inches wide by 5.75 inches tall and 7 inches deep for a massive 815 total cubic inches. Our intercoolers are also one of the easiest to install (in less than one hour) as they utilize the factory mounting tabs, factory c-clip couplers and don't require any silicon couplers or extra hose clamps. Our intercoolers are the only ones that utilize the sway bar mounting tabs to create a structural reinforcement that holds the intercooler tightly in place and our intercoolers fit within the factory grill and do not interfere with the radiator airflow. Our HPF intercoolers drastically drop the intake air temps without adding any additional turbo lag over your stock intercooler. Lower intake temperatures result in greater power delivery and the harder you run your car, the larger the gains you're going to see with our intercoolers. Whether you're running your 135i/335i as a daily driver or have already turned it into an all out track car, this intercooler will get you the power you need.



Features
  • Over 87% more internal flow area than stock
  • High flow large radius cast end tanks for smooth, less turbulant air-flow
  • Factory style billet quick disconnect c-clip couplers
  • Fan shroud mounting retainers
  • Efficient bar and plate intercooler core design
  • No need for silicon couplers or hose clamps
  • Utilizes the factory O-ring compressor pipes
  • Utilizes the factory mounts and additional stainless lower brackets for added rigidity
  • 20.25" wide X 5.75" tall X 7" deep
  • 815 cubic inches of cooling (factory is 435 cubic inches)
  • Designed for up to 650rwhp
  • Fully polished to an extremely high luster





More to Come

I will let everyone know when more new products become available and feel free to email me any feedback you might have on these products.

Chris.
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      01-26-2010, 08:10 PM   #106
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Chris, thanks for the post on the cross sectional airflow..

Question, in your video showing the dyno gains, what tune is that 335 using to boost 11psi.. is it your tune that is currently underdevelopment, or did the donor car already have it? Sorry if I missed this information..
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      02-04-2010, 07:57 PM   #107
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I called earlier to order the FMIC and was told that the next batch was coming in late March, and the 10 fmic from the initial batch are spoken for....I was going to place the order and asked him that my card shouldn't be charged until its shipped right?? I was told that I will be charged 500 dollars deposit which essentially is half of the intercoolers price and when the intercooler ships I will be charged the remaining 535...I was kind of taken back at such a hefty deposit that was necessary, but I was willing to do so anyway, I then asked if I decide to cancel the order before the next batch of FMIC arrives, will I be refunded my deposit...I was told "NO REFUNDS" First off, asking for 500 dollar deposit on a product that is not a special order which they will stock is rediculous, and cancelling an order before shipment and not getting back your deposit because of cancellation is bad business....HPF is a large reputable tuning company and I didn't think they would have policys like this....Smaller vendors which are not as well known as them offer money back if you decide to cancel, and as for deposits, its nothing near what I would have to pay for a pre-order of a FMIC which is 500 bucks......All the vendors I have dealt with do not charge the credit card unless it ships out....I am very suprised at their business policy and this is the first time I have dealt with this issue with any vendor that is selling aftermarket parts on this forum...

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      02-04-2010, 08:23 PM   #108
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I called earlier to order the FMIC and was told that the next batch was coming in late March, and the 10 fmic from the initial batch are spoken for....I was going to place the order and asked him that my card shouldn't be charged until its shipped right?? I was told that I will be charged 500 dollars deposit which essentially is half of the intercoolers price and when the intercooler ships I will be charged the remaining 535...I was kind of taken back at such a hefty deposit that was necessary, but I was willing to do so anyway, I then asked if I decide to cancel the order before the next batch of FMIC arrives, will I be refunded my deposit...I was told "NO REFUNDS" First off, asking for 500 dollar deposit on a product that is not a special order which they will stock is rediculous, and cancelling an order before shipment and not getting back your deposit because of cancellation is bad business....HPF is a large reputable tuning company and I didn't think they would have policys like this....Smaller vendors which are not as well known as them offer money back if you decide to cancel, and as for deposits, its nothing near what I would have to pay for a pre-order of a FMIC which is 500 bucks......All the vendors I have dealt with do not charge the credit card unless it ships out....I am very suprised at their business policy and this is the first time I have dealt with this issue with any vendor that is selling aftermarket parts on this forum...
thanks for the story, interesting policy, no refunds, remember luca335 here? and his whole ordeal with ASR that was resolved? that was a deposit, a deposit for the turbokit if I remember right, he wanted a refund, and ASR did. wonder if all the haters here jump on HPF, probably not though, seeing as though HPF is more well known and a more respected company on this board.
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      02-04-2010, 08:32 PM   #109
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I called earlier to order the FMIC and was told that the next batch was coming in late March, and the 10 fmic from the initial batch are spoken for....I was going to place the order and asked him that my card shouldn't be charged until its shipped right?? I was told that I will be charged 500 dollars deposit which essentially is half of the intercoolers price and when the intercooler ships I will be charged the remaining 535...I was kind of taken back at such a hefty deposit that was necessary, but I was willing to do so anyway, I then asked if I decide to cancel the order before the next batch of FMIC arrives, will I be refunded my deposit...I was told "NO REFUNDS" First off, asking for 500 dollar deposit on a product that is not a special order which they will stock is rediculous, and cancelling an order before shipment and not getting back your deposit because of cancellation is bad business....HPF is a large reputable tuning company and I didn't think they would have policys like this....Smaller vendors which are not as well known as them offer money back if you decide to cancel, and as for deposits, its nothing near what I would have to pay for a pre-order of a FMIC which is 500 bucks......All the vendors I have dealt with do not charge the credit card unless it ships out....I am very suprised at their business policy and this is the first time I have dealt with this issue with any vendor that is selling aftermarket parts on this forum...
Of course you or anyone else can get a refund if you change your mind. I'm not sure who you were talking to, but our policy is to always offer a refund if you change your mind or want to cancel.

We have already sold through both the first and part of our second batch. The reason we take the deposits is to ensure those people on the list are serious which allows them to lock a place in line as we already have over 25 orders for these. We will charge the remaining $500 once we ship them out.

Did you order this directly from us at 503-256-5600 or through one of our vendors?

Take care,
Chris.
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      02-04-2010, 08:34 PM   #110
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Quote:
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thanks for the story, interesting policy, no refunds, remember luca335 here? and his whole ordeal with ASR that was resolved? that was a deposit, a deposit for the turbokit if I remember right, he wanted a refund, and ASR did. wonder if all the haters here jump on HPF, probably not though, seeing as though HPF is more well known and a more respected company on this board.
Yes they are more reputable, but having a steep deposit and return policy like that makes me wonder..... I would have place the order today and they would have all my info....IF they didn't have this sales policy, I would have placed the order today and I know it would never have been cancelled because I know what I want, but I always like to know the what if answers beforehand, and after hearing their sales policy, made me put my wallet away! I am in business myself and for anything that is a special order, I ask for half the deposit and obviously I let the customer know that there is no refunds if the order is placed and being produced....For regular items that are out of stock, I ask only for a minimal deposit and if they decide to cancel the order before the item gets shipped to my warehouse, I refund the money no questions ask...Reason being REGULAR items I stock in my warehouse, why would I refuse the customer their refund on items that I carry all year round!!

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