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      06-27-2013, 06:40 AM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nhe261 View Post
I am a HIFI guy and built lots of HIFI speakers my self. To my ear, Logic 7 is not even close to HIFI grade. so, I just upgrade my logic 7 front door midrange to this SCANSPEAK 10F 4424 , Neo magnet,90 dB, http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...idrange-4-ohm/
also upgrade the tweeters to VIFA silk dome, http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...tweeter-4-ohm/
DIY 12db crossover used Solen air cone conductor and capacitor. Cost me $280 total including shipping, not bad comparing to Focal and Morel.
Also upgraded the center to Morel XO4 coaxial, make the image even better. After 3 hours weekend time ,what a difference, day and night. Now all my CDs are back to life. Two hours driving everyday is not sleepy any more. LOL.
BTW, I already added a back trunk 12" with external 600w amp.
The Scanspeak does need some home made brackets as it is smaller than the stock midrange. But highly recommanded if you really want the good sound but not break you bank.
Sounds great. Given that I'm not an engineer, do you have any more info on the DIY xover and bracket?
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      06-27-2013, 08:08 AM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nhe261 View Post
It's a night mere to upgrade the logic 7 amp. Actually it not bad if you use good speakers. BMW speakers are just not efficient and 2 ohm is not good either. 86 dB with 2ohm is a no no. Scanspeake 10F is 90 dB 4 ohm, the stock amp can drive it easily. The Vifa silk is 94 dB, so I have to use Lpad (1 and 10 ohm metalfilm)to bring it down to 91 otherwise is too bright.
Google Scanspeak 10F for all the reviews on HIFI DIY site. IMO, it's better than Morel.
What do you mean by this? Which L-pad did you use? Do you think the amp can drive the 8ohm verison of the 10F?

I'm really interested in upgrading my speakers. I listen to Beyerdynamic DT990's all day at work, which makes my car sound pretty boring on the way home.
I really enjoy high fidelity music.
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Last edited by akotten; 06-27-2013 at 08:34 AM.
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      06-27-2013, 09:45 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by akotten View Post
What do you mean by this? Which L-pad did you use? Do you think the amp can drive the 8ohm verison of the 10F?

I'm really interested in upgrading my speakers. I listen to Beyerdynamic DT990's all day at work, which makes my car sound pretty boring on the way home.
I really enjoy high fidelity music.
I don't think the stock amp can drive 8 ohm speaker. The stock speaker is 86db at 2 ohm, the 4ohm Scan is 90db. Think like this way, when the speakers go from 2 to 4 with the same db, the sound is in half level. When the db rises 3 db, the sound level is double. so the Scan 10F is 90db 4 ohm will have the same or slice bigger sound level than the stock 2ohm 86db speaker.

L-pad is to reduce the tweeter level to match the mid. I will draw a sketch of the Xover and post here, the Xover point is 4000hz. I used midrange straight.

Last edited by Nhe261; 06-27-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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      06-27-2013, 10:12 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nhe261 View Post
I don't think the stock amp can drive 8 ohm speaker. The stock speaker is 86db at 2 ohm, the 4ohm Scan is 90db. Think like this way, when the speakers go from 2 to 4 with the same db, the sound is in half level. When the db rises 3 db, the sound level is double. so the Scan 10F is 90db 4 ohm will have the same or slice bigger sound level than the stock 2ohm 86db speaker.

L-pad is to reduce the tweeter level to match the mid. I will draw a sketch of the Xover and post here, the Xover point is 4000Khz. I used midrange straight.
Yeah, I figured the 8ohm variant would be two difficult to drive. 4MHz? I'm not too familiar with Xover point and its importance, but I will look into it. I'm a mechanical engineer....but electrical and acoustic engineering has always intrigued me.
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      06-27-2013, 10:38 AM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akotten View Post
Yeah, I figured the 8ohm variant would be two difficult to drive. 4MHz? I'm not too familiar with Xover point and its importance, but I will look into it. I'm a mechanical engineer....but electrical and acoustic engineering has always intrigued me.
sorry typo, should be 4000Hz. 4MHz is ultraultrasonic. Thanks for correction. Engineers LOL. Me too.
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      06-27-2013, 10:46 AM   #248
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Before everyone goes running out to buy Scanspeak mids, know that these are drivers that were meant for home audio applications. They do not have coatings on the drivers that would protect them from exposure to moisture as most car audio drivers are due to possible exposure in the doors. They are also typically not ideal for infinite baffle applications which is what it would be whe mounted in your door. They are optimized for sealed installations so while they may sound better than the stock L7s, your not getting the full benefit of the driver (which is not a cheap one) when running it in the stock location. I've gone down this road when considering the Scanspeak 12M and felt that spending over $400 on mids and not being able to get the full benefit of the driver was not worth it.
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      06-27-2013, 11:03 AM   #249
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Scan 10F is usuing•Coated NRSC Fibre Glass Cone (patent), should be good for door using. and also recommanded to use 1L sealed box, the door panel is like a sealed box not open infinite baffle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
Before everyone goes running out to buy Scanspeak mids, know that these are drivers that were meant for home audio applications. They do not have coatings on the drivers that would protect them from exposure to moisture as most car audio drivers are due to possible exposure in the doors. They are also typically not ideal for infinite baffle applications which is what it would be whe mounted in your door. They are optimized for sealed installations so while they may sound better than the stock L7s, your not getting the full benefit of the driver (which is not a cheap one) when running it in the stock location. I've gone down this road when considering the Scanspeak 12M and felt that spending over $400 on mids and not being able to get the full benefit of the driver was not worth it.
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      06-27-2013, 11:09 AM   #250
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A door cavity behaves like IB, not sealed. Also, in our cars the speakers are mounted inside of the moisture barrier, therefore it is a completely dry application.
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      06-27-2013, 11:52 AM   #251
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10F is pretty small compare to 12M so I think IB or sealed is not big concern. I used it as a full range plus the tweeter. More clear and musical then the stock.Im pretty happy. 12M is almost triple of the price I will not use it on the car. I used 15M for my home DIY 3.5 way tower 180lb each, happy so far.
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      06-28-2013, 12:20 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nhe261 View Post
10F is pretty small compare to 12M so I think IB or sealed is not big concern. I used it as a full range plus the tweeter. More clear and musical then the stock.Im pretty happy. 12M is almost triple of the price I will not use it on the car. I used 15M for my home DIY 3.5 way tower 180lb each, happy so far.
I'm sure the 10F is a better mid than what's available in most aftermarket component sets. Please post details about the tweeter and the crossover you used.
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      06-28-2013, 12:47 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
I'm sure the 10F is a better mid than what's available in most aftermarket component sets. Please post details about the tweeter and the crossover you used.
The tweeter is a Vifa 1" soft silk dome, no plate, bare driver. I glued it in the location, and plus some dynamat pretty tight. Its 94db so I haveto reduce it 3db to match the mid. Much more detail than the stock aluminum tweeter.
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      06-28-2013, 12:57 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nhe261 View Post
The tweeter is a Vifa 1" soft silk dome, no plate, bare driver. I glued it in the location, and plus some dynamat pretty tight. Its 94db so I haveto reduce it 3db to match the mid. Much more detail than the stock aluminum tweeter.
I think he was meaning what type of components you used to build the crossover. I saw in your original post you used Solen components but if you could share the values you used that would be helpful. Also, did I read correctly that you're letting the mid roll-off naturally on the high frequency side?
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      06-28-2013, 02:56 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
I think he was meaning what type of components you used to build the crossover. I saw in your original post you used Solen components but if you could share the values you used that would be helpful. Also, did I read correctly that you're letting the mid roll-off naturally on the high frequency side?
Yes I let the mid straight means rolloff naturally. Check its curve it is pretty flat from 200hz to about 10k at low volume. I just dont want to waste the good voice.the tweeter is just an add on for high range and more detail.
This is my xover if yo want filter the mid up to you. As it is- 12 dB Xover so the phase of tweeter is 180 degree so the tweeter should be wired backward.
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Last edited by Nhe261; 06-28-2013 at 04:03 PM.
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      06-28-2013, 03:11 PM   #256
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http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...idrange-4-ohm/
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...tweeter-4-ohm/
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...fast-cap-400v/
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...uctors-14-awg/
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...ductor-16-awg/
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...ilm-resistors/
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...ilm-resistors/

The 16 gauge inductor can be used for tweeter as it is not in the signal path, better to use 14 gauge Solen in the mid path as it has less resistor.

Last edited by Nhe261; 06-28-2013 at 03:23 PM.
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      06-28-2013, 03:39 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nhe261 View Post
Yes I let the mid straight means rolloff naturally. Check its curve it is pretty flat from 200hz to about 10k at low volume. I just dont want to waste the good voice.the tweeter is just an add on for high range and more detail.
This is my xover if yo want filter the mid up to you. As it is 12 dB Xover so the phase of tweeter is 180 degree so the tweeter should be wired backward.
I used to run my mid pretty high too but I always had a low pass filter on the upper end for them. It just tended to sound a little harsh if I let it roll off naturally. I ran it up to 5kHz and left a gap to my tweeter which was crossed at 6.3kHz but at only -6db/oct slope. This is when I was running the a/d/s/ px tweeters. After I put in the MBQs, I brought it down a little so my mids are crossed at 4 kHz and the tweeters at 5kHz and increase the slope to -12dB/oct.

I know most aftermarket component sets don't roll-off the mids too so this is not uncommon and sounds good to most people.
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      06-28-2013, 04:10 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
I used to run my mid pretty high too but I always had a low pass filter on the upper end for them. It just tended to sound a little harsh if I let it roll off naturally. I ran it up to 5kHz and left a gap to my tweeter which was crossed at 6.3kHz but at only -6db/oct slope. This is when I was running the a/d/s/ px tweeters. After I put in the MBQs, I brought it down a little so my mids are crossed at 4 kHz and the tweeters at 5kHz and increase the slope to -12dB/oct.

I know most aftermarket component sets don't roll-off the mids too so this is not uncommon and sounds good to most people.
Good design.
Any xover is better than the stock ,it is just a capacitor maybe costs 10 cents.
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      06-28-2013, 08:30 PM   #259
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I was using a mono amp to drive the in trunk 12" sub, I alway feel missing some low mid. When my door mid is shaking I use my hand to touch the underseat woofer, I feel nothing. It likes not moveing at all. I think the stock amp is too weak to drive theunderseat.
Today I changed the mono amp to a 4 ch 4x110w amp, use front chs to drive the underseat woofers (need to cut the wires to the woofers and reconnect to the 4 ch amp). Use rear chs to drive the 12".
Wow wow, the low mid is back. The music is complete. Even in a very low volume the underseat can feel moving.
Do laugh at my sub, I hate to frill my truck and back seat. My setup is very tight and totally restorable. Not best looking though but who cares.
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Last edited by Nhe261; 06-28-2013 at 08:44 PM.
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      06-28-2013, 09:00 PM   #260
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what are you using to power the front channels? isn't the subs over powering the front speakers?
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      06-28-2013, 09:07 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightaway View Post
what are you using to power the front channels? isn't the subs over powering the front speakers?
4 ch amp, front ch power the front underseat woofers, rear ch power the 12" sub. use LOC signal to the amp front ch, front ch has a pre-out, use this pre-out signal to the rear ch. front and rear has own volume and filters. use HP about 80 Hz to the front, LP 100 Hz to the 12" sub.
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      06-28-2013, 09:51 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nhe261 View Post
I was using a mono amp to drive the in trunk 12" sub, I alway feel missing some low mid. When my door mid is shaking I use my hand to touch the underseat woofer, I feel nothing. It likes not moveing at all. I think the stock amp is too weak to drive theunderseat.
Today I changed the mono amp to a 4 ch 4x110w amp, use front chs to drive the underseat woofers (need to cut the wires to the woofers and reconnect to the 4 ch amp). Use rear chs to drive the 12".
Wow wow, the low mid is back. The music is complete. Even in a very low volume the underseat can feel moving.
Do laugh at my sub, I hate to frill my truck and back seat. My setup is very tight and totally restorable. Not best looking though but who cares.
I'm not really sure what I'm looking at in those pictures
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      06-28-2013, 10:07 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
I'm not really sure what I'm looking at in those pictures
My bad. This is not for the door speakers, it is for subs.
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      06-28-2013, 10:20 PM   #264
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My bad. This is not for the door speakers, it is for subs.
Yes but it's all close up pics is what I think he is referring to. You can't tell where anything even is.
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