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      01-25-2010, 04:47 AM   #1
335diesel
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Slight vibration at speed

Had four new tyres fitted almost a fortnight ago (non RFTs) which are brilliant but noticed a slight vibration that got worse the faster I went.

I'm thinking a wheel has gone out of balance possibly as a result of the tyre change? It's only just started doing it and it really is slight - but enough to annoy us! Do you reckon I could take it back to Kwik Fit and get them to check it out and hopefully sort it? Don't want to waste a trip!

Cheers!
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      01-25-2010, 05:02 AM   #2
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Does the steering wheel 'wobble' if you let go?

Does the wobble / vibration come and go as the speed increases or does it stay and just get more wobbly?
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      01-25-2010, 05:12 AM   #3
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Did you have stick-on balances, maybe one (or more) has come off.

I washed my car last weekend and a couple of them dropped off - wasn't best pleased.
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      01-25-2010, 05:41 AM   #4
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Doughboy - no steering wheel wobble at all. Just a high frequency vibration that increased with speed - this was on a brand new super smooth road so there is usually almost no noise. It's the sort of thing you only notice in a car you know really well.

It's sort of like driving on a slightly poorly tarmacced road when it's actually smooth.
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      01-25-2010, 06:04 AM   #5
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Sounds a tricky one that,

Wheel wobble isn't usually that high a frequency as even at 60 mph the wheel speed is only about 15 revs per second on our approx wheel / tyre sizes.

If you slow to about 20mph it would be a r e a l l y slow 5hz, that's the sort of wobble speed for an unbalanced wheel.

Also wheel wobble intensity comes and goes with speed, like a 'resonant' style effect with the other suspension components, always peaking at a multiple of the same speed, i.e. 20, 40, 80 etc.

Are you sure it's not just the new tread pattern feeling different to your old tyres?
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      01-25-2010, 06:28 AM   #6
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Doughboy - not sure TBH. It's a bit of a mystery. Felt super smooth last week on the same road.

Taking it in tomorrow - just to eliminate anything potentially dangerous.

I tried to check the wheel nuts were tight - is the tyre lever hidden somewhere or isn't there one?! They are all "finger tight" though.

Thanks for taking the time to have a think doughboy - much appreciated.
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      01-25-2010, 04:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
I tried to check the wheel nuts were tight - is the tyre lever hidden somewhere or isn't there one?! They are all "finger tight" though.
Finger tight. The jack kit is an optional extra so you don't get a wrench as far as I'm aware.

If in doubt, re-torque the knuts with a torque wrench or get a garage to check them for you. better safe than sorry as it were.

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/...jsp?techid=107
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      01-25-2010, 06:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
Had four new tyres fitted almost a fortnight ago (non RFTs) which are brilliant but noticed a slight vibration that got worse the faster I went.

I'm thinking a wheel has gone out of balance possibly as a result of the tyre change? It's only just started doing it and it really is slight - but enough to annoy us! Do you reckon I could take it back to Kwik Fit and get them to check it out and hopefully sort it? Don't want to waste a trip!

Cheers!
I know this might sound anal but make sure the hubb face is clean and the back of the wheel, torque to 120 Nm. The vibration you describe seems to be from the rear as no steering wheel vibration, could be a rear wheel out of balance.
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      01-26-2010, 01:35 AM   #9
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Yep, I'd agree - most probably a rear wheel out of balance.

Take it back, you should be fine.
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      01-26-2010, 03:45 AM   #10
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I have come across Kwikfit not cleaning the inside of the wheel before sticking on the balancing weights, causing them to fall off.

There was a recent post about Merit Tyres (not sure if they're your way, doing a thorough balance for 20 for all four corners).
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      01-26-2010, 03:48 AM   #11
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I'd also do the following: Go to the dealer and by the wheel wrench. Then go back to the place that fitted the tyres and left the wheel bolts only finger tight putting you and your family in danger. Ask to see the fitter who worked on your car. Bray him with the wheel wrench purchased earlier. Go to a better tyre place and have the wheels balanced and correctly torqued afterwards.
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      01-26-2010, 03:52 AM   #12
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You've not left your vibrator in side pocket / glove box have you Matt?
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      01-26-2010, 04:08 AM   #13
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Sorry - I was unclear. I checked the nuts with my fingers after realising there was no wheel wrench - they are much more than finger tight!! Just wanted to make sure none were really loose.

I think they'll do it for free - tyre pressures are all fine (2.2 bar front, 2.7 bar rear - 0.1 bar over RFT pressure). Will report after I take it in - rear tyre out of balance sounds about right to me. Will mention the 120Nm of torque too.

Cheers all!
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      01-26-2010, 04:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
Sorry - I was unclear. I checked the nuts with my fingers after realising there was no wheel wrench - they are much more than finger tight!! Just wanted to make sure none were really loose.

I think they'll do it for free - tyre pressures are all fine (2.2 bar front, 2.7 bar rear - 0.1 bar over RFT pressure). Will report after I take it in - rear tyre out of balance sounds about right to me. Will mention the 120Nm of torque too.

Cheers all!
Now you have proper tyres on, go and buy the lovely BMW jack kit that comes with, amongst other things, an even more lovely pre-set torque wrench for the wheel nuts.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...00&hg=71&fg=95

Fits a treat under your boot floor.
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      01-26-2010, 04:21 AM   #15
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Doughboy - where can I get that from and how much?

Can't believe they don't even include a jack or wheel wrench with the car!!

I'm surprised they "allow" you to add oil and water...
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      01-26-2010, 04:39 AM   #16
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When you go for a rebalance, ask to watch them do it and check they mount the wheels properly and there isn't any run-out. I'm surprised how many guys don't check that. Cause of lots of bad balancing. Usually dirty equipment and not enough attention to detail. Also just cast your eye over the tyre concentricity. You may need to have a Hunter road force balance, if the next attempt doesn't sort it.

BTW, I'd suspect the rears.

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      01-26-2010, 04:50 AM   #17
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Ermmm - what's run out?!
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      01-26-2010, 04:52 AM   #18
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Imagine you bolted your wheel flat to the hub, or so you thought, but there was a tiny bit of gravel on the hub face so in actual fact your wheel wasn't totally flat up against the hub on one edge. That's run-out.
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      01-26-2010, 05:08 AM   #19
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Cheers xenon! About to head up - will see how I get on.
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      01-26-2010, 05:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Ermmm - what's run out?!
Think xenon has explained it... I just had to intervene, when I saw a guy try and balance a wheel that was wobbling on the balance rig. He couldn't understand that although his readout was 0 the wheel would be out of balance. He insisted the machine self centred the wheel. Had to give him some 'tips' for keeping his machine clean and checking the wheel was running true. So I get him to remount the wheel and give him the OK that the wheel is free of run-out. He re-reads the data and it is way out of balance. Get him to strip the weights (not add more as he wanted to) and start again.

I'm sure many wheels suffer this uncaring attitude to balance and users are to and fro to rebalance wheels.

Soap box of mine, as you can tell.

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      01-26-2010, 05:31 AM   #21
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...good fitters and bad fitters......

I stood out side the workshop at Event tyres the other weekend when they were fitting my winters and watched.

Between every wheel they wiped the balance machine spindle and cone and the wheel centre, put the wheel on the machine then span the wheel by hand with the cover up to check it was true.

Wherever weight was needed they cleaned the wheel with some sort of solvent cleaner before attaching the weight and re-checking.

When putting each wheel on the car they used an airline to clean the hub face and wheel face, checked the surfaces by hand before putting the wheel on and hand started all the bolts by hand - not the airgun to avoid cross threading damage.

Quick nip up with the impact gun, then put the car down and double-click all the bolts with a torque wrench.

Good job i reckon.
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      01-26-2010, 05:37 AM   #22
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Doughboy - where can I get that from and how much?
Any BMW parts department.

About 85 + vat I think....

Some would say pricey for a jack / chock / torque wrench / gloves, but its is the proper job and top quality..
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