E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > Advice please - M3 vs standard front suspension arms



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-30-2015, 06:03 AM   #1
Jules59
Lieutenant
Jules59's Avatar
United Kingdom
8
Rep
475
Posts

Drives: E91
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK. Warwickshire

iTrader: (0)

Advice please - M3 vs standard front suspension arms

Regarding my E91 2009 lowered on Eiback Pro springs.

Are the TRW M3 front suspension arms (Track control JTC 1426 & 1427 and tension strut JTC 1423 & 1424 ) the same lengths as the standard 330D arms. The bushes are different but are the arms any longer or shorter? I thought they were the same length.

I changed my macpherson strut top bearings and put the M3 arms on and now Ive got loads of toe in.
Is this due to the arms or the macpherson struts not being in the original position - the pins on the top mount have been removed.


Ive got it booked in for Hunter alignment but Ive got to get it there and its not driveable at the moment.
__________________
Jules
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2015, 07:33 AM   #2
Aragorn30d
Private First Class
7
Rep
198
Posts

Drives: E90 330d
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Fife

iTrader: (0)

my brothers did the same, the M3 arms add caster and camber, so they must be slightly different lengths/shapes.

Once you've got the alignment done it'll be fine.

If you think your toe is too far out to drive it, you could wind the tie rods in slightly yourself. He drove his home from here (40miles) and then to the alignment place without any issues.

Why did you remove the locating pin on the top mount? I'm not sure if the top mounts are eccentric or not, but so long as theyre bolted in the way they should be i cant see that being your problem.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2015, 07:40 AM   #3
Digitalize
Photographer
Digitalize's Avatar
United Kingdom
24
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: E91 320D M Sport TiAg
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Weymouth

iTrader: (0)

Just get it roughly correct to drive it. If it's too far off the car will not like it and go in to a sort of limp mode where the traction control goes mental and thinks you're out of control, so limits power heavily.
__________________
Matthew Dear Photography
Automotive & Documentary Photographer
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2015, 07:55 AM   #4
Aragorn30d
Private First Class
7
Rep
198
Posts

Drives: E90 330d
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Fife

iTrader: (0)

Couldnt you could just turn it off if it was being silly?
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2015, 09:14 AM   #5
Jules59
Lieutenant
Jules59's Avatar
United Kingdom
8
Rep
475
Posts

Drives: E91
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK. Warwickshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitalize View Post
Just get it roughly correct to drive it. If it's too far off the car will not like it and go in to a sort of limp mode where the traction control goes mental and thinks you're out of control, so limits power heavily.
Car drives nice now that Ive got rid of the toe-in - had to wind out each track rod about 1cm.
The handling was so bad this morning that at first I thought Id really cocked something up. But no it was just the tracking was way out.

I havent got a tracking device so did it with pieces of wood, pencil and tape measure - measuring between marks I made on the floor, and then up and down the ramps several times until I got it somewhere driveable.

Got it booked in now for a proper setup.
__________________
Jules
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2015, 09:16 AM   #6
Jules59
Lieutenant
Jules59's Avatar
United Kingdom
8
Rep
475
Posts

Drives: E91
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK. Warwickshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn30d View Post
Why did you remove the locating pin on the top mount? I'm not sure if the top mounts are eccentric or not, but so long as theyre bolted in the way they should be i cant see that being your problem.

You can alter the camber if you take out the pins
__________________
Jules
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2015, 12:22 PM   #7
Digitalize
Photographer
Digitalize's Avatar
United Kingdom
24
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: E91 320D M Sport TiAg
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Weymouth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn30d View Post
Couldnt you could just turn it off if it was being silly?
No it won't let you once that happens. It was due to it not thinking the wheel was straight etc. The car assumes it's tracking fairly correctly.
__________________
Matthew Dear Photography
Automotive & Documentary Photographer
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2015, 02:22 AM   #8
jackstrath
Private First Class
7
Rep
189
Posts

Drives: 335d
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: scotland

iTrader: (0)

Got a link to where u got them ?
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2015, 05:10 AM   #9
Aragorn30d
Private First Class
7
Rep
198
Posts

Drives: E90 330d
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Fife

iTrader: (0)

My brother got his from Amazon i think. Just put the above part numbers in. Pretty cheap too.
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2015, 09:45 AM   #10
Jules59
Lieutenant
Jules59's Avatar
United Kingdom
8
Rep
475
Posts

Drives: E91
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK. Warwickshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstrath View Post
Got a link to where u got them ?
Cheapest place is Amazon - but prices vary alot (48 - 75 each).

Just search for "JTC 1423" (+ 1424, 1426, 1427).

I got the lot for about 200.

Other place is Incar Motor Factors - I got one of the arms there as the Amazon site was out of stock on one of the arms - 20 more
http://www.incarmotorfactors.co.uk/


Easy to DIY it
21mm socket for outboard ends (both 165Nm)

18mm ring spanner & socket for inboard ends (tension strut 68Nm + 90o , control arm 60Nm + 90o for 8.8 bolts)
Check your own vehicle specs

Will need tracking adjusting ++

Hope that helps.
__________________
Jules
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2015, 12:37 PM   #11
old grey steve
Lieutenant Colonel
old grey steve's Avatar
United Kingdom
52
Rep
1,854
Posts

Drives: 335i Coupe.
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK in Hertfordshire

iTrader: (2)

Had mine done around 2 weeks ago, front end tracking is a must once done as they need setting up to stand any chance of making the car driveable, but once all done the difference is very marked the downside is you will have some camber difference which over time will promote a little bit more inner tyre wear than you'd otherwise expect(but I have a plan re this:winkbut over all the difference's between the standard set up and the M3 upgrade is fairly marked.

Over pot holes speed humps, which is something I encounter everyday, mainly speed humps on my road they feel far more solid, beanrng in mind that 7 montns ago I'd changed both the required arms on mine for standard repalcments its a fair test to see what the difference is and its noticable.

Secondly the turn in is sharper, though this is partly down to the camber issue mentioned above but it is from behind the wheel a different feel for sure.

General driving the car feels more planted at the front, its firmer sure but as a drivers car perhaps better for it and IMO its a worthwhile upgrade(camber issues aside)to carry out as they'll probably longevity wise be mire durable longterm, plus at the prices statd they are a damn sight cheaper than the OEM BMW replacements too, sad thing is they are a tad more difficult to obtain than the OEM items, but from the net as stated they can be obtained rather easily.
__________________

Last edited by old grey steve; Yesterday at 03:25 PM.
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2015, 06:09 PM   #12
Aragorn30d
Private First Class
7
Rep
198
Posts

Drives: E90 330d
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Fife

iTrader: (0)

Is the camber really an issue?

1-1.5 degrees is fine for a road car, as standard the E90 doesnt have enough, which is the surely the whole point of fitting the M3 parts.
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 04:49 PM   #13
Jules59
Lieutenant
Jules59's Avatar
United Kingdom
8
Rep
475
Posts

Drives: E91
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK. Warwickshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn30d View Post
Is the camber really an issue?

1-1.5 degrees is fine for a road car, as standard the E90 doesnt have enough, which is the surely the whole point of fitting the M3 parts.
Prior to replacing the fronts arms I was running 1 degree of camber.
Im getting it fully setup on return from my hols.
__________________
Jules
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 06:37 PM   #14
RajB
Captain
41
Rep
800
Posts

Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Midlands

iTrader: (1)

I can vouch for the M3 arms. They are an excellent upgrade and really help the front end. I'm unsure what the camber issues would be as the increased negative camber isn't enough to cause any real issues. You can happily run unto degrees of negative camber for normal road use without it causing massive tyre wear problems. TBH camber generally doesn't ruin tyres or cause inner/outer scrubbing of the tyres, it is toe and castor that can cause that. I've had my geo done temporarily and all are within specs except for the camber on the fronts but again it's not hugely out.

I'd say for for it.
__________________
If it's broke...Mod It
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 06:38 PM   #15
Aragorn30d
Private First Class
7
Rep
198
Posts

Drives: E90 330d
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Fife

iTrader: (0)

Factory specs for a stock E90 is around 0.3degrees whereas the M3 runs about 1.2degrees

If your car is lowered then you'll probably have more than stock though.
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 06:46 PM   #16
RajB
Captain
41
Rep
800
Posts

Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Midlands

iTrader: (1)

Mine is lowered on Birds setup and is running about 1.42degrees.
__________________
If it's broke...Mod It
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:06 AM.




e90post
e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST