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      02-04-2010, 07:08 AM   #1
Imran@Evolve
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The difference between 95 RON and 99 RON fuel in the 335i

As there has been some discussion on the use of different fuel grades in the 335i I thought I'd post some dyno graphs up showing the difference in power that is achieved.

Please note this is not a scientific test (IMO all the tests would have to be carried out on the same car and same conditions to be 100% accurate) but provides an excellent illustration. I have taken the highest figure I can find for each category that has been on our dyno. I have added the typical range we have seen for these on our dyno in brackets.

1 - tuned* with Shell V Power 99 (370-390 BHP)
2 - tuned* with 95 RON (340-346 BHP)
3 - standard with Shell V Power 99 (311-330 BHP)
4 - standard with 95 RON (290-302 BHP)

*just a remap on otherwise standard car.

Flywheel Power



Flywheel Torque



I hope you find this useful in making your decision at the pumps

I'm off to secure some sponsorship with Shell.

Last edited by Imran@Evolve; 02-04-2010 at 09:22 AM.
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      02-04-2010, 07:14 AM   #2
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I'll stick to diesel.
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      02-04-2010, 07:19 AM   #3
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This is great. Would it be possible to something similar for the 320d. I use Vpower diesel and it seems better than other diesel but it be nice to see something a bit more scientific.
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      02-04-2010, 07:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanseahammer View Post
This is great. Would it be possible to something similar for the 320d. I use Vpower diesel and it seems better than other diesel but it be nice to see something a bit more scientific.
I have only tested V Power diesel on a VAG 2.0 TDi engine and it did not make any difference in power in comparison to normal Shell diesel.

If we get a chance we will test it on a BMW diesel.
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      02-04-2010, 07:26 AM   #5
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Good - so I'm not imagining it.
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      02-04-2010, 07:36 AM   #6
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5th Gear did a similar test a few years back and found much the same.

One was a scooby i think it made something like + 20bhp ( maybe more cant remember now) from fuel alone.

NA cars made little or no gain at all.

Worth searching youtube to see if there is a video of it?
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      02-04-2010, 07:52 AM   #7
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The fuel makes a noticeable difference on the E92 M3 too. I will make a seperate thread with a dyno graph.
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      02-04-2010, 08:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imran@Evolve View Post
I have only tested V Power diesel on a VAG 2.0 TDi engine and it did not make any difference in power in comparison to normal Shell diesel.

If we get a chance we will test it on a BMW diesel.
Be great if you could

We had a thread on Premium diesel last year and most thought it gave no performance benefit. The odd tank may help clean out the engine though if the marketing is to be believed....
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      02-04-2010, 08:42 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by TMP View Post
Be great if you could

We had a thread on Premium diesel last year and most thought it gave no performance benefit. The odd tank may help clean out the engine though if the marketing is to be believed....
I certainly notice a difference. Was running normal Diesel for 2.5 years, now using Diesel Ultimate (etc.) there is a marked difference. Fuel ecomomy seems better too.

I am talking mainly about part-throtle response, smoothness and driveabilty. Same sensation you got by tuning an older car with an oil change, and new plugs and points.

Even if that is no indication of foot to the floor increase in actual ultimate power - it is more than enough to make me seek out good quality Diesel.

D.
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      02-04-2010, 08:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imran@Evolve View Post
I have only tested V Power diesel on a VAG 2.0 TDi engine and it did not make any difference in power in comparison to normal Shell diesel.

If we get a chance we will test it on a BMW diesel.
This would be much appreciated.

My arse dyno is telling me there is no difference when I have used V Power diesel in the past even after a couple of tank fulls.
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      02-04-2010, 08:54 AM   #11
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Diesel / chip fat / vasoline / parafin / cod liver oil

..it's all the same stuff to a derv muncher...
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      02-04-2010, 08:56 AM   #12
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Imran, thanks a lot for taking the time to post this. It makes me much happier about spending 1.17 a litre on v-power!!
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      02-04-2010, 08:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Diesel / chip fat / vasoline / parafin / cod liver oil

..it's all the same stuff to a derv muncher...
Dont you need to go and fill up again
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      02-04-2010, 09:02 AM   #14
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I'm staggered you get + 28 BHP between the two fuels, what were to differences in barometric pressures and internal temperature Imran.

What's going on with the torque curve of the V Powered engine at 3600 RPM?
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      02-04-2010, 09:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_3 View Post
I certainly notice a difference. Was running normal Diesel for 2.5 years, now using Diesel Ultimate (etc.) there is a marked difference. Fuel ecomomy seems better too.

I am talking mainly about part-throtle response, smoothness and driveabilty. Same sensation you got by tuning an older car with an oil change, and new plugs and points.

Even if that is no indication of foot to the floor increase in actual ultimate power - it is more than enough to make me seek out good quality Diesel.

D.
I only try and put in quality diesel (Shell standard), but agree with Skid, I felt no improvment in performance and didnt even get an mpg increase.

If Imran can do this, it would prove this one way or the other.
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      02-04-2010, 09:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFS View Post
Imran, thanks a lot for taking the time to post this. It makes me much happier about spending 1.17 a litre on v-power!!
Bargain, I paid 1.29 / litre on the M6 on Tuesday.

75.50 to the brim....
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      02-04-2010, 09:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creepy coupe View Post
I'm staggered you get + 28 BHP between the two fuels, what were to differences in barometric pressures and internal temperature Imran.

What's going on with the torque curve of the V Powered engine at 3600 RPM?
I have picked the highest figures from each category to be fair.

I did say it was not a completely scientific test as we would have to use the same car and have exactly the same barometric conditions (very difficult) to get 100% accurate results.

The results are however very typical of what have seen with 335i's on our dyno - and I think we have had more on our dyno than anyone in the UK.
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      02-04-2010, 09:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imran@Evolve View Post
The fuel makes a noticeable difference on the E92 M3 too. I will make a seperate thread with a dyno graph.
Yeah I agree it prob will ake a difference. The NA cars they tested ran on 95 Ron no need for 98. The M3 States 98 Ron so timing will be retarded running on 95 giving less power.
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      02-04-2010, 09:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imran@Evolve View Post
I have picked the highest figures from each category to be fair.

I did say it was not a completely scientific test as we would have to use the same car and have exactly the same barometric conditions (very difficult) to get 100% accurate results.

The results are however very typical of what have seen with 335i's on our dyno - and I think we have had more on our dyno than anyone in the UK.

Understood Imran, wasn't picking holes, but I do have interest from a work related standpoint.
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      02-04-2010, 10:00 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by creepy coupe View Post
Understood Imran, wasn't picking holes, but I do have interest from a work related standpoint.
I can check for you when I get some time?
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      02-04-2010, 10:45 AM   #21
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I run my 535d exclusively on V-power diesel. Shell don't make any claims about it doing anything other than keeping your engine clean, but BP do make claims about their Ultimate diesel producing more power (up to 8% IIRC). I doubt that they could do this unless they had proven it in 'normal' cars, which they have if you read the blurb on their website. BP state that their Ultimate diesel produces less soot as well, which is going to lead to fewer DPF regeneration cycles.

On the butt dyno the V-power has better part-throttle response and is noticeably quieter at startup compared to regular Shell diesel extra. I think I get a bit better mpg too, but I've never measured it scientifically.

The extra few quid on a fill-up is insignificant to the purchase and running costs of these cars, so why not use the best fuel you can? My father-in-law always buys the cheapest supermarket diesel he can (Tesco/Asda) and just had to spend an order of magnitude more than he's saved on fuel having the fuel pump housing removed from his Focus and all the accumulated crap cleaned out because he was getting fuel starvation. And wasting time and money having the injectors cleaned by a 'specialist' beforehand, which made no difference.

I would be very interested in seeing some dyno results of standard and remapped BMW diesels on regular and high cetane diesel as well.

Last edited by milesr3; 02-04-2010 at 11:15 AM.
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      02-04-2010, 11:00 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milesr3 View Post
I run my 535d exclusively on V-power diesel. Shell don't make any claims about it doing anything other than keeping your engine clean, but BP do make claims about their Ultimate diesel producing more power (up to 8% IIRC). I doubt that they could do this unless they had proven it in 'normal' cars, which they have if you read the blurb on their website.

On the butt dyno the V-power has better part-throttle response and is noticeably quieter at startup compared to regular Shell diesel extra. I think I get a bit better mpg too, but I've never measured it scientifically.

The extra few quid on a fill-up is insignificant to the purchase and running costs of these cars, so why not use the best fuel you can?

I would be very interested in seeing some dyno results of standard and remapped BMW diesels on regular and high cetane diesel as well.
I use BP Ultimate diesel, as it can be bought locally, and find similar results as you mention. I had to fill with the standard diesel last time, as the Ultimate was run out. Next cold start up and could feel the harshness through the car. Also the car just doesn't feel the same, not the mid range punch I'm used to when overtaking.

The FifthGear fuel test did show the premium diesel fuels improved bhp on an average diesel, so on the higher performance diesels we can expect better gains. Plus the cleaning properties should not be overlooked, if we intend keeping our cars long term.

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