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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / Warranty > 50,000 miles, should i flush the transmission fluid?



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      02-09-2010, 07:12 PM   #23
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interesting.. i almost changed it..
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      02-09-2010, 08:02 PM   #24
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also one more thing i forgot to add:

i asked this question, " Ok so i used my steptronic manual mode every day, almost 95% of my driving is either in sport mode or manual mode, does this mean i have to change the fluid sooner since my driving style is more sporty?"

he told me that it doesnt make a difference weather you drive it enthusiastically or conservatively, all the steptronic does it hold the the gear in there until you shift and since the car is doing the shifting and not you manual there is no damage. just more stress on things like suspension and engine but not the tranny.

so that was good to hear because i was worried about sludge and stuff, and was about to get it flushed to until i heard this.
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      02-09-2010, 08:33 PM   #25
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also one more thing i forgot to add:

i asked this question, " Ok so i used my steptronic manual mode every day, almost 95% of my driving is either in sport mode or manual mode, does this mean i have to change the fluid sooner since my driving style is more sporty?"

he told me that it doesnt make a difference weather you drive it enthusiastically or conservatively, all the steptronic does it hold the the gear in there until you shift and since the car is doing the shifting and not you manual there is no damage. just more stress on things like suspension and engine but not the tranny.

so that was good to hear because i was worried about sludge and stuff, and was about to get it flushed to until i heard this.
Strange. I always read that running the A/T in manual mode holding gear at high RPM puts undue stress on the valve body.
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      02-09-2010, 09:22 PM   #26
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hmm. so lets say i opt not to change the tranny fluid. have any of you guys scored a used or rebuilt bmw tranny or have an idea how much they would go for? i wouldnt feel bad dropping 3k if i get 110-150,000 miles out of the car. but dropping 7k would hurt. a lot.

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      02-09-2010, 10:20 PM   #27
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If you are currently not having any problem with the transmission, do a transmission oil CHANGE, not a FLUSH. They are two completely different things. A flush may lead to more harm being done to the transmission. Google it if you don't believe me.
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      02-10-2010, 07:56 AM   #28
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hmm. so lets say i opt not to change the tranny fluid. have any of you guys scored a used or rebuilt bmw tranny or have an idea how much they would go for? i wouldnt feel bad dropping 3k if i get 110-150,000 miles out of the car. but dropping 7k would hurt. a lot.
You would want to buy a remanufactured* from BMW which would probably run ~$5k-6k.

*The only thing "used" on these is the housing, all the internals are new.
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      02-11-2010, 04:38 PM   #29
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If you are currently not having any problem with the transmission, do a transmission oil CHANGE, not a FLUSH. They are two completely different things. A flush may lead to more harm being done to the transmission. Google it if you don't believe me.
There is a big difference between the 2. However, it completely depends on the type of machine used to do the flush. I used to work for BG Products which is a high end lubricant/chemical/fluid manufacturer for the automotive business. Many machines use a pump to force the old fluid out/new fluid in. The BG machine only operates off of the car's tranny line pressure. This couldn't possibly dislodge things that the tranny didn't dislodge on its own. Also, to do a simple fluid change is only going to get about 30% of the old fluid out. Mix new fluid with 70% old fluid and you still have old fluid.
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      02-14-2010, 03:56 PM   #30
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I'm leaning towards believing the lifetime claims are true. Keeping in mind a different auto design (4speed) and claimed lifetime auto trans fluid, we had a 1993 E36 325i go for 289,000 miles and only in the last 12k miles did the transmission start acting funny. The fluid was NEVER changed. The rest of the car was falling apart (unfortunate poor early build quality in '92-'93 for the then brand new E36) and the electronics going in places so we didn't look in to the transmission, which was probably wear and tear after all of those miles.

I know this is a different design, but if anything the fluid in the auto transmission must be better to some degree in my 2006 325i, so I'm not changing it. I just hit 50k miles and will probably run this car for another 50-75k miles before selling.
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      02-15-2010, 02:23 PM   #31
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BMW recomends changing the fluid out at 100k miles so go figure . I changed mine out at 50k miles and I could feel a smoother shift right away. I am at 87k miles now and have not had any issues at all. I will do it again at 100k miles but this time I will change the pan with the built in filter. The first time I did a drain/fill and cleaned all the gunk off the pan. I drained 7 litters out and filled it back with 7 more ( it holds 9 litters). I have had many cars and I have always changed out the tranny fluid at 30k with with the drain and fill procedure. Many of my cars have ran beyond 150k miles. I do how ever belive the BMW tranny fluid in our cars can last alot longer then 30k. But then again we all feel differently and can do what we want. This is just my opinion but how ever I do have two degrees one in chemistry and one in mechanical engineering.

One last thought for every one,yes the fluid might be able to last the lifetime of your car(its expensive for a reason), but as the fluid ages with your transmission it will collect alot of dirt , contaminants, harm full debrease,and sludge that can lead to the possibility of transmission failure. Why? well because it will be circulated trough out the transmission over and over agian it will eventually end up in a place that it should not be in. Thats why I belive a drain and fill or even a flush is good idea once in while. The fluid it self will be contaminated over time by the conditions of the transmission its not because it cant last the distance or hold its visosity. BTW stick to the OEM fluid you will never go wrong with it.


Think about it this way. Your transmission is like the human body it produces waste and it needs to come out. The only way to make it come out is by draining or flushing the fluid out.

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      02-15-2010, 07:24 PM   #32
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BMW recomends changing the fluid out at 100k miles so go figure . I changed mine out at 50k miles and I could feel a smoother shift right away. I am at 87k miles now and have not had any issues at all. I will do it again at 100k miles but this time I will change the pan with the built in filter. The first time I did a drain/fill and cleaned all the gunk off the pan. I drained 7 litters out and filled it back with 7 more ( it holds 9 litters). I have had many cars and I have always changed out the tranny fluid at 30k with with the drain and fill procedure. Many of my cars have ran beyond 150k miles. I do how ever belive the BMW tranny fluid in our cars can last alot longer then 30k. But then again we all feel differently and can do what we want. This is just my opinion but how ever I do have two degrees one in chemistry and one in mechanical engineering.

One last thought for every one,yes the fluid might be able to last the lifetime of your car(its expensive for a reason), but as the fluid ages with your transmission it will collect alot of dirt , contaminants, harm full debrease,and sludge that can lead to the possibility of transmission failure. Why? well because it will be circulated trough out the transmission over and over agian it will eventually end up in a place that it should not be in. Thats why I belive a drain and fill or even a flush is good idea once in while. The fluid it self will be contaminated over time by the conditions of the transmission its not because it cant last the distance or hold its visosity. BTW stick to the OEM fluid you will never go wrong with it.


Think about it this way. Your transmission is like the human body it produces waste and it needs to come out. The only way to make it come out is by draining or flushing the fluid out.
I'm doing a transmission fluid and differential fluid this coming saturday. I'm at 58K miles right now. Bought Pentosin ATF1 for the transmission, and Royal Purple Max Gear Oil (75W-90) for the differential. I'm also getting it done by a BMW tech, who drives his 135i rather spiritedly, and he did not tell me not to do it. I plan to replace the Pan + Filter at 120K miles... and I'm also doing a Coolant, and brake fluid Drain/fill as well.
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      02-16-2010, 08:18 AM   #33
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I'm doing a transmission fluid and differential fluid this coming saturday. I'm at 58K miles right now. Bought Pentosin ATF1 for the transmission, and Royal Purple Max Gear Oil (75W-90) for the differential. I'm also getting it done by a BMW tech, who drives his 135i rather spiritedly, and he did not tell me not to do it. I plan to replace the Pan + Filter at 120K miles... and I'm also doing a Coolant, and brake fluid Drain/fill as well.
Why not do the pan/filter now? Interesting in that Pentosin ATF1 is only ZF TE-ML 11B which is Lifeguard5 whereas your car requires Lifeguard6. I wonder if there's an additive difference or if it's marketing?

http://www.pentosin.de/flexxtrader/d...ATF%201_GB.pdf

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/i..._list_2007.pdf

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      02-16-2010, 10:02 AM   #34
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Why not do the pan/filter now? Interesting in that Pentosin ATF1 is only ZF TE-ML 11B which is Lifeguard5 whereas your car requires Lifeguard6. I wonder if there's an additive difference or if it's marketing?
SE3P_to_E90, Don't listen to this guy. Change your fluid with 7 liters. Don't go to the stealership, who will rake you over the coals, and only change 5.5 liters. I'm using the pentosin fluid in 2 of my cars with 6hp transmissions, with absolutely no isssues so far, and over 10K miles on each since the changes. These guys write all kinds of crap online, with no real world evidence to back it up.
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      02-16-2010, 10:36 AM   #35
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SE3P_to_E90, Don't listen to this guy. Change your fluid with 7 liters. Don't go to the stealership, who will rake you over the coals, and only change 5.5 liters. I'm using the pentosin fluid in 2 of my cars with 6hp transmissions, with absolutely no isssues so far, and over 10K miles on each since the changes. These guys write all kinds of crap online, with no real world evidence to back it up.
Turkeybaster you're soo full of shit I can smell it from here. I never said the guy had to go to the dealership. The guy can probably buy the fluid from a ZF ditributor. What I said was FACT, and it was a question. Prove to me there's no difference between LFG5 and LFG6 and we're good to go. 10k "real world" means zero, kinda like your commenting on the condition of ATF by it's appearance.

It's time for you to walk the walk mate.
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      02-16-2010, 11:45 AM   #36
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Turkeybaster you're soo full of shit I can smell it from here. I never said the guy had to go to the dealership. The guy can probably buy the fluid from a ZF ditributor:
at $60 per liter? Yes, I called my local ZF distributor! also keep in mind, that they were buzy remanufacturing 6hp's that had lifetime fluid in them from the stealership.


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What I said was FACT, and it was a question. Prove to me there's no difference between LFG5 and LFG6
there is! we know for a fact that pentosin ATF1=LG5, and it is on a list of acceptable fluids compiled by ZF. LG6, however, isn't even on that list.

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10k "real world" means zero, kinda like your commenting on the condition of ATF by it's appearance.
It's time for you to walk the walk mate.
this is not the first vehicle I have owned, and certainly not the first vehicle I have owned, and not put in "Stealership" fluids, and none of them have ever had a problem, for years. All the exorbidantly priced fluids that BMW makes are worshiped on the internet by fanboys, and its comical, and sad.
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      02-16-2010, 11:58 AM   #37
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SE3P_to_E90, Don't listen to this guy. Change your fluid with 7 liters. Don't go to the stealership, who will rake you over the coals, and only change 5.5 liters. I'm using the pentosin fluid in 2 of my cars with 6hp transmissions, with absolutely no isssues so far, and over 10K miles on each since the changes. These guys write all kinds of crap online, with no real world evidence to back it up.
Actually, just because you say so isn't really a good reason. Dino oil and coolants with phosphates in it will feel fine too, doesn't mean they are necessarily good for the vehicle in the long run.

So there are two conflicting specs for the Pentosin ATF-1.

RMEuropean says its M-1375.4 equivalent, which is what you should be looking for.
http://www.rmeuropean.com/Part-Numbe..._9BA48850.aspx

HOWEVER, the actual Pentosin ATF-1 website with specs does not say any such thing. It says it is TE-ML 11B approved, which does NOT mean its officially approved for the 6-speed auto.
http://www.pentosin.com/flexxtrader/...ATF%201_GB.pdf

So take that for what its worth I suppose, RMEuropean is just a retailer.

There are two others (that I know of) that say they are M-1375.4 equivalent
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/livea...s_ImportMV.pdf
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=51&pcid=9

In the end, use what you feel comfortable with. If going with a shorter fluid change interval of 50k miles or so, probably any of these are fine. If you are trying to go with a 100k+ fluid change interval, I would stick with the ZF Lifeguardfluid6/Shell M-1375.4 (OEM) fluids.

I don't think any of us are worshipping BMW fluids...we just don't have many facts that these fluids are indeed good substitutes and good for the transmission in the long run. FWIW, I will probably be using Pentosin ATF-1 when 50k miles rolls around for me.
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      02-16-2010, 01:11 PM   #38
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there is! we know for a fact that pentosin ATF1=LG5, and it is on a list of acceptable fluids compiled by ZF. LG6, however, isn't even on that list.
And yet in your infinite wisdom you see no problem using a LG5 equivalent for a transmission which requires LG6 and think it's perfectly ok to berate people who question this?
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      02-16-2010, 01:14 PM   #39
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Actually, just because you say so isn't really a good reason. Dino oil and coolants with phosphates in it will feel fine too, doesn't mean they are necessarily good for the vehicle in the long run.

So there are two conflicting specs for the Pentosin ATF-1.

RMEuropean says its M-1375.4 equivalent, which is what you should be looking for.
http://www.rmeuropean.com/Part-Numbe..._9BA48850.aspx

HOWEVER, the actual Pentosin ATF-1 website with specs does not say any such thing. It says it is TE-ML 11B approved, which does NOT mean its officially approved for the 6-speed auto.
http://www.pentosin.com/flexxtrader/...ATF%201_GB.pdf

So take that for what its worth I suppose, RMEuropean is just a retailer.

There are two others (that I know of) that say they are M-1375.4 equivalent
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/livea...s_ImportMV.pdf
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=51&pcid=9

In the end, use what you feel comfortable with. If going with a shorter fluid change interval of 50k miles or so, probably any of these are fine. If you are trying to go with a 100k+ fluid change interval, I would stick with the ZF Lifeguardfluid6/Shell M-1375.4 (OEM) fluids.

I don't think any of us are worshipping BMW fluids...we just don't have many facts that these fluids are indeed good substitutes and good for the transmission in the long run. FWIW, I will probably be using Pentosin ATF-1 when 50k miles rolls around for me.
Another person gets it! This is why I questioned if the additive pkg was different between LG5 and LG6. How can ATF-1 meet be an equilavent to Shell 1375.4 which meets both LG5 and LG6 yet ATF-1 itself only meets LG5?

I agree with 50k intervals it may not matter but who knows.

Last edited by Socom; 02-16-2010 at 01:28 PM.
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      02-16-2010, 01:36 PM   #40
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Why not do the pan/filter now? Interesting in that Pentosin ATF1 is only ZF TE-ML 11B which is Lifeguard5 whereas your car requires Lifeguard6. I wonder if there's an additive difference or if it's marketing?

http://www.pentosin.de/flexxtrader/d...ATF%201_GB.pdf

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/i..._list_2007.pdf
I'm not going to do the Pan/filter now because I think it's overkill. I plan to do that at the 100-120K miles mark. All this conflicting information comes up regarding Pentosin ATF1, but then again, as I browsed this forum, I found that many people do, in fact, and have used the Pentosin ATF1 without problems. Also, when I go to my BMW tech (at the dealership) this saturday, I'll be sure to bring this up with him and see what he has to say. I plan to change my transmission fluid again in another 60K miles or so (and replace the pan/filter), so I don't think it's such a big deal.

Oh yea, while I'm doing this, I'm also draining/filling my differential fluid as well -- with Royal Purple Max Gear Oil 75W-90
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      02-16-2010, 02:53 PM   #41
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In the end, use what you feel comfortable with. If going with a shorter fluid change interval of 50k miles or so, probably any of these are fine. If you are trying to go with a 100k+ fluid change interval, I would stick with the ZF Lifeguardfluid6/Shell M-1375.4 (OEM) fluids.
There are unfortunately a whole bunch of people on our audi forums, who are living proof, that the 6hp with unchanged lifeguard6, dies between 60-80K. HARD evidence my friend, not just my pictures of degraded fluids.
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      02-16-2010, 02:56 PM   #42
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Another person gets it! This is why I questioned if the additive pkg was different between LG5 and LG6. How can ATF-1 meet be an equilavent to Shell 1375.4 which meets both LG5 and LG6 yet ATF-1 itself only meets LG5?

I agree with 50k intervals it may not matter but who knows.
I emailed Pentosin about the discrepancy between its product spec sheet and what the retailers say as I am interested to know why.

The one thing that would solve a lot of this is if there were actual specs of the Shell/ZF fluid to compare to the other fluids that say they are equivalent...however I have not been able to find that information, at least not from a reliable source.
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      02-16-2010, 02:57 PM   #43
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All this conflicting information comes up regarding Pentosin ATF1, but then again, as I browsed this forum, I found that many people do, in fact, and have used the Pentosin ATF1 without problems.
My local shop wanted to even put amsoil transfluid in my car, and not the pentosin I brought. They have evidence, that even that fluid is ok. Afterall, they've been putting it in 6hp audi's since 2006.
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      02-16-2010, 03:02 PM   #44
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I emailed Pentosin about the discrepancy between its product spec sheet and what the retailers say as I am interested to know why. The one thing that would solve a lot of this is if there were actual specs of the Shell/ZF fluid to compare to the other fluids that say they are equivalent...however I have not been able to find that information, at least not from a reliable source.
If it helps you sleep better, the Nissan GTR, and E90 M3 guys are using Pentosin FFL4. They did some research, and found that their OEM Dual Clutch tranny fluids, were actually repackaged Pentosin FFL4.
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