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      03-15-2010, 08:11 PM   #1
campbelly
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final answer: staggered wheels and an Xi...

So i have heard so many mixed reactions to putting staggered rims on an Xi..i want i finalized opinion and cant seem to find one online..preferably someone who is a mechanic or has had experience with an Xi..i have a '06 325Xi and am planning on getting vmr wheels in 19x8.5 and 19x10..i need to know if the staggered setup can actually "ruin" my x-drive system as some people claim..thanks
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      03-15-2010, 08:15 PM   #2
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Cars with xDrive come from the factory with a staggered setup, albeit not quite that aggressive. I run the OEM staggered sizes and have no problems.
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      03-15-2010, 08:31 PM   #3
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The circumference of the tire is more important than the width. I have run OEM staggered 18's w/o issue. Like some one else said, the factory equips some xi's w/ a staggered setup. That said, the wider rears will induce understeer, probably the last thing one would want in an xi.
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      03-16-2010, 06:29 AM   #4
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I am running 18" 162's staggered on my XI.
I drive the same car that you do.

1) no problems with the x drive system
2) these are the bmw wheels that come with the XI "sport package"
3) many people here are running staggered with no problems
4) the only dissenting opionions I have read are from people stating opionion as fact while parrotiing specs from subarus without any direct expereince or information from BMW.

I do not personally know if your proposed wheels fit, clearing suspension, etc, but I have absolutely no evidence whatsover that a staggered setup is bad for XI's. My 162's are just fine.

Running the 18" 162's instead of my stock 16's I have noticed the following improvements
1) overstear is greatly reduced
2) highway ride is much nicer - fewer small corrections as they track better
3) cornering is much much better
4) slightly less body roll (I think I need the strut sway bar)
5) no run flats on my 162's is a huge improvement
6) the accelleration curve is much smoother. the 16's gave me a jerk between 1st and 2nd gear. This may be because the 325 is working a bit harder to push the larger wheels.

Downside:
1) tire pressure is important to prevent understear. watch this one.
(search for my earlier post about crapping my pants)
2) A drop would help the XI with handling and looks, but I'm not prepared to spend the money on the mod.

Last edited by fdiprete; 03-16-2010 at 06:43 AM..
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      03-16-2010, 07:46 AM   #5
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No problems with my all wheel drive system with stock 162s or my 18" csl's which are both staggered.
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      03-16-2010, 08:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElRedOne View Post
The circumference of the tire is more important than the width. I have run OEM staggered 18's w/o issue. Like some one else said, the factory equips some xi's w/ a staggered setup. That said, the wider rears will induce understeer, probably the last thing one would want in an xi.
What he said
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      03-16-2010, 08:44 AM   #7
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As long as the circumference isn't different, you should be okay running a wider rear rear tire.
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      03-16-2010, 11:58 AM   #8
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I staggered my wheels once. Before I knew it, I was missing $1700 and a laptop...
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      03-16-2010, 12:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine Whiteboy View Post
I staggered my wheels once. Before I knew it, I was missing $1700 and a laptop...
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      03-16-2010, 12:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer This View Post
As long as the circumference isn't different, you should be okay running a wider rear rear tire.
when you say circumference what exactly are you talking about? cause wont that depend on the actual size of the rim (ie 19" or 18") and not so much the fact that they are staggered?
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      03-16-2010, 12:59 PM   #11
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I have a 2008 335xi coupe with sport package and 18s (style #189 wheels). It came with runflats: 225/40s in the front and 255/35s in the rear. I thoroughly enjoyed the stock tires/setup, except for a bit of rear tire slippage at parking lot speeds and a HORRIBLY short life of about 8-9k miles (140 treadwear, lol). Yes, I drive my car hard, but still. Damn.

Anyways, onto my second set of tires. This was on the same stock set of wheels, mind you. I wanted to get a cheaper, non-runflat tire that would last a bit longer than the stock rubber. I chose to get Pirelli P-Zero Neros in the exact same sizes as stock: 225/40s in the front and 255/35s in the rear. Long story short: the car never felt the same and I (stupidly) considered selling it.

Short story long: I have had 10+ years of varied autocross and track experience, plus a good deal of first and second hand experience with different cars and brands of tires on the street. I'd like to think I'm quite good at picking out the subtle nuances of different wheel/tire setups, at this point, especially if it's on my daily driver. I could immediately tell a difference with these tires. It was like night and day. The first thought that came to mind was this: "is my car on stilts?" I know that's a weird question to ask, but, that's really what it felt like. My car almost felt top heavy.

In addition to that, and MUCH more annoying, was a (slight, but still very noticeable) change in attitude and direction of the car when transitioning from one throttle state to another (on to off-throttle, or off to on-throttle). This was almost like torque-steer in a FWD car. My brain actually started automatically compensating by turning the wheel slightly as I let off or pressed on the gas. It was ridiculous. At high speeds it was very evident.

Finally, the nail in the coffin... the rear tires were slipping like crazy. Amazing amounts of rear tire slippage and DSC activation (faaar more than the stockers) at parking lot speeds. Even when I was going VERY light on the throttle and trying my best to not spin the rears. Let's not forget that this is an AWD car, lol. Absolutely ridiculous. Even scarier was the fact that the DSC was activating at high speeds (80+) in STRAIGHT LINES over minor (and I mean MINOR) road imperfections. The car was completely different. As I said earlier in my post, it was night and day.

And just to prove that I wasn't crazy about all this, it turned out that my rear brake pads were being eaten away at an astronomical rate by the activation of the DSC in response to the near-constant rear tire slippage. I wore through a full set of rear brake pads in TWO THOUSAND MILES. The dealer covered them without asking a single question, though, which was nice.

With all that tire slippage, my P-Zero Neros only lasted 10k miles. I stretched their life to 12k miles, but I wouldn't recommend anyone running with that little tread. I had done tons of research to figure out the cause of the issue. From the start, however, I had my own theory. I owned a '98 Eclipse GSX back in the day, and I must say that the AWD system in that car (purely mechanical) felt damn good. It had a non-staggered setup (17x8s all around, I believe, with 225/45s on each corner). I pointed that car where I wanted it to go, mashed the throttle, and it went... without tire slippage or change of attitude. It just went, and that's how it should be. This was a highly modified GSX with close to 400 whp, mind you.

I ended up convincing myself that the staggered wheel setup was the cause of my problem. Even though I had purchased tires with the exact same dimensions as the stockers (and theoretically the same 0.2% difference in rolling diameter from front to rear), they were obviously somehow adversely affecting the AWD system. I've heard some people mention increased sidewall flex on the non-runflat tires, but that flex should be about equal in the front and the rear, no?

Anyways, once my P-Zero Neros kicked the bucket, I gave up trying to figure out the exact cause of the issue and went with a non-staggered setup. I absolutely wanted the exact same wheel/tire combo at each corner of my car. I was sure that would fix my problem, regardless of which tire or wheel I chose for the application (within spec, obviously). In addition to that, I could rotate my tires and extend the tread life. I ended up going with 18x8.5" wheels and Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 235/40 tires all the way around.

Am I happy? OH MY GOD, yes. Thankfully, I have achieved a night and day change, once again. I'm happy to report that the day is even brighter than it was with the stock wheel/tire combo. The car is absolutely composed and doesn't exhibit ANY of the symptoms that I described earlier in this post. I thoroughly tested the car and am completely convinced that the problem is 100% fixed. It feels like a new car and I'm never going back to a staggered setup again. I realize that I'm much more picky than most, and I drive my car hard and notice small things, but this was a huge pain in my ass for over ten thousand miles and I'm extremely glad to be done with it. I hope this info helps some of you all. Take care.
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      03-16-2010, 01:27 PM   #12
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^ pollution to my ears

Quote:
Originally Posted by campbelly View Post
when you say circumference what exactly are you talking about? cause wont that depend on the actual size of the rim (ie 19" or 18") and not so much the fact that they are staggered?
Ratios, people.
As long as the OVERALL ROLLING DIAMETERS of the front and rear tires are within ~1%, there is no effect on xDrive. You just don't want one set spinning faster than the other.
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      03-16-2010, 04:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Zoolander View Post
^ pollution to my ears
You read with your ears?

Why don't you tell me what you didn't like about my post instead of just responding with a worthless comment? OBVIOUSLY I took overall rolling diameters of the fronts vs. the rears into consideration. It's quite clear you didn't read everything I posted.
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      03-18-2010, 08:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsor View Post
I have a 2008 335xi coupe with sport package and 18s (style #189 wheels). It came with runflats: 225/40s in the front and 255/35s in the rear. I thoroughly enjoyed the stock tires/setup, except for a bit of rear tire slippage at parking lot speeds and a HORRIBLY short life of about 8-9k miles (140 treadwear, lol). Yes, I drive my car hard, but still. Damn.

Anyways, onto my second set of tires. This was on the same stock set of wheels, mind you. I wanted to get a cheaper, non-runflat tire that would last a bit longer than the stock rubber. I chose to get Pirelli P-Zero Neros in the exact same sizes as stock: 225/40s in the front and 255/35s in the rear. Long story short: the car never felt the same and I (stupidly) considered selling it.

Short story long: I have had 10+ years of varied autocross and track experience, plus a good deal of first and second hand experience with different cars and brands of tires on the street. I'd like to think I'm quite good at picking out the subtle nuances of different wheel/tire setups, at this point, especially if it's on my daily driver. I could immediately tell a difference with these tires. It was like night and day. The first thought that came to mind was this: "is my car on stilts?" I know that's a weird question to ask, but, that's really what it felt like. My car almost felt top heavy.

In addition to that, and MUCH more annoying, was a (slight, but still very noticeable) change in attitude and direction of the car when transitioning from one throttle state to another (on to off-throttle, or off to on-throttle). This was almost like torque-steer in a FWD car. My brain actually started automatically compensating by turning the wheel slightly as I let off or pressed on the gas. It was ridiculous. At high speeds it was very evident.

Finally, the nail in the coffin... the rear tires were slipping like crazy. Amazing amounts of rear tire slippage and DSC activation (faaar more than the stockers) at parking lot speeds. Even when I was going VERY light on the throttle and trying my best to not spin the rears. Let's not forget that this is an AWD car, lol. Absolutely ridiculous. Even scarier was the fact that the DSC was activating at high speeds (80+) in STRAIGHT LINES over minor (and I mean MINOR) road imperfections. The car was completely different. As I said earlier in my post, it was night and day.

And just to prove that I wasn't crazy about all this, it turned out that my rear brake pads were being eaten away at an astronomical rate by the activation of the DSC in response to the near-constant rear tire slippage. I wore through a full set of rear brake pads in TWO THOUSAND MILES. The dealer covered them without asking a single question, though, which was nice.

With all that tire slippage, my P-Zero Neros only lasted 10k miles. I stretched their life to 12k miles, but I wouldn't recommend anyone running with that little tread. I had done tons of research to figure out the cause of the issue. From the start, however, I had my own theory. I owned a '98 Eclipse GSX back in the day, and I must say that the AWD system in that car (purely mechanical) felt damn good. It had a non-staggered setup (17x8s all around, I believe, with 225/45s on each corner). I pointed that car where I wanted it to go, mashed the throttle, and it went... without tire slippage or change of attitude. It just went, and that's how it should be. This was a highly modified GSX with close to 400 whp, mind you.

I ended up convincing myself that the staggered wheel setup was the cause of my problem. Even though I had purchased tires with the exact same dimensions as the stockers (and theoretically the same 0.2% difference in rolling diameter from front to rear), they were obviously somehow adversely affecting the AWD system. I've heard some people mention increased sidewall flex on the non-runflat tires, but that flex should be about equal in the front and the rear, no?

Anyways, once my P-Zero Neros kicked the bucket, I gave up trying to figure out the exact cause of the issue and went with a non-staggered setup. I absolutely wanted the exact same wheel/tire combo at each corner of my car. I was sure that would fix my problem, regardless of which tire or wheel I chose for the application (within spec, obviously). In addition to that, I could rotate my tires and extend the tread life. I ended up going with 18x8.5" wheels and Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 235/40 tires all the way around.

Am I happy? OH MY GOD, yes. Thankfully, I have achieved a night and day change, once again. I'm happy to report that the day is even brighter than it was with the stock wheel/tire combo. The car is absolutely composed and doesn't exhibit ANY of the symptoms that I described earlier in this post. I thoroughly tested the car and am completely convinced that the problem is 100% fixed. It feels like a new car and I'm never going back to a staggered setup again. I realize that I'm much more picky than most, and I drive my car hard and notice small things, but this was a huge pain in my ass for over ten thousand miles and I'm extremely glad to be done with it. I hope this info helps some of you all. Take care.

Thanks for the post. You definitely helped me make up my mind.
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      03-22-2010, 01:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsor View Post
I have a 2008 335xi coupe with sport package and 18s (style #189 wheels). It came with runflats: 225/40s in the front and 255/35s in the rear. I thoroughly enjoyed the stock tires/setup, except for a bit of rear tire slippage at parking lot speeds and a HORRIBLY short life of about 8-9k miles (140 treadwear, lol). Yes, I drive my car hard, but still. Damn.

Anyways, onto my second set of tires. This was on the same stock set of wheels, mind you. I wanted to get a cheaper, non-runflat tire that would last a bit longer than the stock rubber. I chose to get Pirelli P-Zero Neros in the exact same sizes as stock: 225/40s in the front and 255/35s in the rear. Long story short: the car never felt the same and I (stupidly) considered selling it.

Short story long: I have had 10+ years of varied autocross and track experience, plus a good deal of first and second hand experience with different cars and brands of tires on the street. I'd like to think I'm quite good at picking out the subtle nuances of different wheel/tire setups, at this point, especially if it's on my daily driver. I could immediately tell a difference with these tires. It was like night and day. The first thought that came to mind was this: "is my car on stilts?" I know that's a weird question to ask, but, that's really what it felt like. My car almost felt top heavy.

In addition to that, and MUCH more annoying, was a (slight, but still very noticeable) change in attitude and direction of the car when transitioning from one throttle state to another (on to off-throttle, or off to on-throttle). This was almost like torque-steer in a FWD car. My brain actually started automatically compensating by turning the wheel slightly as I let off or pressed on the gas. It was ridiculous. At high speeds it was very evident.

Finally, the nail in the coffin... the rear tires were slipping like crazy. Amazing amounts of rear tire slippage and DSC activation (faaar more than the stockers) at parking lot speeds. Even when I was going VERY light on the throttle and trying my best to not spin the rears. Let's not forget that this is an AWD car, lol. Absolutely ridiculous. Even scarier was the fact that the DSC was activating at high speeds (80+) in STRAIGHT LINES over minor (and I mean MINOR) road imperfections. The car was completely different. As I said earlier in my post, it was night and day.

And just to prove that I wasn't crazy about all this, it turned out that my rear brake pads were being eaten away at an astronomical rate by the activation of the DSC in response to the near-constant rear tire slippage. I wore through a full set of rear brake pads in TWO THOUSAND MILES. The dealer covered them without asking a single question, though, which was nice.

With all that tire slippage, my P-Zero Neros only lasted 10k miles. I stretched their life to 12k miles, but I wouldn't recommend anyone running with that little tread. I had done tons of research to figure out the cause of the issue. From the start, however, I had my own theory. I owned a '98 Eclipse GSX back in the day, and I must say that the AWD system in that car (purely mechanical) felt damn good. It had a non-staggered setup (17x8s all around, I believe, with 225/45s on each corner). I pointed that car where I wanted it to go, mashed the throttle, and it went... without tire slippage or change of attitude. It just went, and that's how it should be. This was a highly modified GSX with close to 400 whp, mind you.

I ended up convincing myself that the staggered wheel setup was the cause of my problem. Even though I had purchased tires with the exact same dimensions as the stockers (and theoretically the same 0.2% difference in rolling diameter from front to rear), they were obviously somehow adversely affecting the AWD system. I've heard some people mention increased sidewall flex on the non-runflat tires, but that flex should be about equal in the front and the rear, no?

Anyways, once my P-Zero Neros kicked the bucket, I gave up trying to figure out the exact cause of the issue and went with a non-staggered setup. I absolutely wanted the exact same wheel/tire combo at each corner of my car. I was sure that would fix my problem, regardless of which tire or wheel I chose for the application (within spec, obviously). In addition to that, I could rotate my tires and extend the tread life. I ended up going with 18x8.5" wheels and Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 235/40 tires all the way around.

Am I happy? OH MY GOD, yes. Thankfully, I have achieved a night and day change, once again. I'm happy to report that the day is even brighter than it was with the stock wheel/tire combo. The car is absolutely composed and doesn't exhibit ANY of the symptoms that I described earlier in this post. I thoroughly tested the car and am completely convinced that the problem is 100% fixed. It feels like a new car and I'm never going back to a staggered setup again. I realize that I'm much more picky than most, and I drive my car hard and notice small things, but this was a huge pain in my ass for over ten thousand miles and I'm extremely glad to be done with it. I hope this info helps some of you all. Take care.
wow, very very detailed response and exactly what i was looking for..seems like its not worth all the trouble and risk of compromising the reasons i bought a bmw in the first place..thank you so much for such a detailed response
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      03-22-2010, 11:03 AM   #16
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Different tires, different driving style, different experience.

I have the OEM BMW 189 staggered setup on a e92 335xi. I swapped the tires for Yokohama Advan S4 tires in the same tire sizes and I could not be happier actually. I love the tires and grip without the "skipping" over bumps of the RFT. Needless to say, summer is back and I will be putting back on the RFT to have some summer fun.

Staggered setup on the xi induces more understeer (a known fact) but does look more aggressive... pick your poison but in the end, just enjoy your car.
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      03-22-2010, 11:17 AM   #17
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i've seen tons of Xi's run staggered set ups without issue...
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      03-22-2010, 12:18 PM   #18
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Like everyone in the thread said, you'll be fine with a staggered set up on an XI. What set of VMR Wheels are you interested in?

Kevin
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      03-22-2010, 03:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
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i've seen tons of Xi's run staggered set ups without issue...
+1
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      03-22-2010, 07:52 PM   #20
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I run 20x9's and 20x10's without an issue, put probably 15k on them so far.
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      09-08-2017, 09:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsor View Post
Am I happy? OH MY GOD, yes. Thankfully, I have achieved a night and day change, once again. I'm happy to report that the day is even brighter than it was with the stock wheel/tire combo. The car is absolutely composed and doesn't exhibit ANY of the symptoms that I described earlier in this post. I thoroughly tested the car and am completely convinced that the problem is 100% fixed. It feels like a new car and I'm never going back to a staggered setup again. I realize that I'm much more picky than most, and I drive my car hard and notice small things, but this was a huge pain in my ass for over ten thousand miles and I'm extremely glad to be done with it. I hope this info helps some of you all. Take care.
(BTW, yes I know this thread is years old)

Hrm, despite the spec think it's possible that somehow the rolling circumference was different between from and rear? Is there any wayt o diagnose that? Maybe through the ODB2 port?

Given that some BMW xdrives ship staggered stock obviously it can work well.

In any case many thanks for the post.
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