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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Take 5: Vishnu 335i - Finally tested the Vishnu Stg 1 "kit"



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      11-22-2006, 08:37 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotekm3
Sorry guys, Im to laxy to read the whole thread:

Whats does Stg.1 include?

and How much WHP do u gain?
Stage 0 ecu upgrade (xede) only
Stage I Xede and exhaust

you get around 50 whp and 65 wheel torque or so.
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      11-22-2006, 09:33 PM   #134
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SHIV-

Im in Santa barbara california and i want a xede tune. If you get this before you leave california, let know and maybe we can work something out. Thanks Dave
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      11-22-2006, 10:27 PM   #135
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OK, Ill explain this too.. yes they are light alloy 18s, but Ill bet they are still heavier than what I would like, and I dont care for how any of the factory wheels look. The 335i seat sits between the stock seat, and the zsp seat. I dont care to searc again, but i believe the only difference was the side bolsters. (I dont care Im sure we will soon find out these seats weigh a lot more than they need to.) Paddle shifters..... I take it you want to get an automatic. A 335i will not have any different suspension than one with ZSP!!! Where does this come from? The only (legal) reason for the speedometer increase is the tires. THATS IT.

I believe that the suspension is the sport with or without the sport package on the coupe, but on the sedan you must have sport package to have the same suspension as the coupe.
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      11-22-2006, 10:57 PM   #136
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Where?

Oviously Shiv has stated where he is headed to do these xede installs right now.... BUT I cant find it in the thread... What state/city is he headed to? Also How many peeps are there in Arizona ready to jump on this? THANKS!
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      11-23-2006, 01:00 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Saying that the Sport package equipped car can do 155mph so the non-Sports equipped car should be able to as well wont satisfy a laywer who has is own agendas.
...or a lawyer who wants to do over 155mph.

Seriously, there are legal implications for ANY "modifications." Respect Shiv for setting his own “limit.”

How about this…removal of the limiter for a magazine top speed test? I for one, would want to see what this baby will do. Similar to the Veyron setup, the car as setup won’t do 180?, but without the limiter….it could. Not bad bragging rights.

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      11-23-2006, 04:09 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseyu


The 97 octane gas that you can get outside the US is equivalent to about 91-92 octane gasoline here in the US (I hope this is just from pure ignorance on your behalf, because you don't get better gasoline). It's just a different way of interpreting those numbers. The means, no you will not get 350 whp with your "97" octane gas and yes, shiv already has a map for the gas that you use (the 91 octane map that he has).

Man, I hate ignorant people!
Sorry to have annoyed you with my ignorance, i have since educated myself as to the diference between RON, MON and AKN. I work in the oil business so i should know better.
I can learn, you will always be rude. Thanks for helping me with my education.
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      11-23-2006, 12:07 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonn335
Sorry to have annoyed you with my ignorance, i have since educated myself as to the diference between RON, MON and AKN. I work in the oil business so i should know better.
I can learn, you will always be rude. Thanks for helping me with my education.
There is a difference between being ignorant and uneducated. I think were all here for the same reason so why don't you grow up and try to be a little more pleasant(Joseyu). You know, we all start somewhere and I'm sure you didn't look at a car for the first time and know everything about it. isn't that one of the reasons for this forum?.... to learn from others and ask questions?

Anyways Shiv.... What is XEDE?? lol j/k
Thanks for putting up with us... Cant wait for you to come to AZ or ship them here!
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      11-23-2006, 02:47 PM   #140
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Shiv, why havent you put the product up on your website yet???
There isn't even a mention of BMW... and here its all everyone is talking about...
Anyways, keep up the good work, hopefully I'll get to meet you and see how everything is going when you come to S. FL
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      11-24-2006, 11:36 AM   #141
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>>About half of our business is ECU reflashing (Subaru, Evo, etc,.). The other half is XEDE tuning. Either one can be a complete engine control solution. It's up to the user to determine what his constraints and needs are.<<

Shiv, its only a matter of time before one of the software developers in this market develops a comprehensive reflash. When that time comes, wouldnt it be preferable to exede, or any other piggyback scenario? What I would do is buy a used ECU, make sure the EWS system is disabled, have that one flashed, and plug that one in for my everyday driving. Then, when the car must go in for service, in goes the stock ecu. Thats about as seamless as you can get.

Your exede solution sounds dynamite today. And, very effective. But, just as with my E36 M3, when a comprehensive reflash solution is available from a topflight tuner, thats the way to go. Just as an aside, you say that your tuning solutions are split about 50/50 between reflashing and Exede tuning. Presuming your reflash solutions are top quality, when would an exede solution Ever be preferable for the same application?
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      11-24-2006, 11:42 AM   #142
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I believe that the ECU records the fact that it's been unplugged so it wouldn't be quite seamless. The way the XEDE is connected, the ECU doesn't know anything about it.
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      11-24-2006, 11:46 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier
I believe that the ECU records the fact that it's been unplugged so it wouldn't be quite seamless. The way the XEDE is connected, the ECU doesn't know anything about it.
Really? You mean, theres a counter circuit implemented somewhere on the ecu board that increments/decrements each time there is an ecu unplug or replug? I must have had over a dozen ecus plugged into my car at one time or another, and the dealer never mentioned a thing about it.. And I had plenty of warranty service with never an issue in that regard. .. I dont see it.
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      11-24-2006, 12:29 PM   #144
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With the XEDE, we can implement pretty much any kind of logic/functionality we want to. This is the advantage of adding another processor instead of remapping the stock ECU. This can and usually does have a positive impact on safety margin and performance. In warranty concerning situations, flashes are always a tricky bet. Most ECUs incorporate a flash counter stored away in permanent memory that keep track of how many times the ECU has been flashed. It also keeps track of max RPM, max boost, max boost control duty %, etc,. So even if you flashed the ECU back to stock, these abnormal values are still stored. With the XEDE, these values are never out of the ordinary. To me, that's a pretty big advantage over a flash. Not to mention the ability to be custom tuned on the dyno, switch between maps, and not having to mail out your ECU to the tuner every time you need a change. I suspect BMW has been pretty easygoing with flashes in the past because, on nonturbo cars, they really didn't do much. Now things are a bit different

Cheers,
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      11-24-2006, 12:35 PM   #145
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>>In warranty concerning situations, flashes are always a tricky bet. Most ECUs incorporate a flash counter stored away in permanent memory that keep track of how many times the ECU has been flashed<<

Shiv, thats why, when I was under warranty, I always kept my stock ecu safe, untouched, and in a box... All the flashing IVe had done has been on a used ECU for my model I picked up for 100 bucks, which I had the EWS system disabled on... When it came time to visit a dealer, just plug in your stock ecu, untouched.

In the relatively mature E36 market, weve been all through the benefits of piggy backs vs native code reflashes, and theres a reason why all the best running cars making the most power have natively tuned reflashed ecus.. or standalones

>>So even if you flashed the ECU back to stock, these abnormal values are still stored<<

Yes, but not in the method Im suggesting..

>>To me, that's a pretty big advantage over a flash<<

Not if you use an ews disabled used ECU for your daily driving, leaving your stock ecu untouched, except for srvc visits.
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      11-24-2006, 12:45 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostm3
>>
In the relatively mature E36 market, weve been all through the benefits of piggy backs vs native code reflashes, and theres a reason why all the best running cars making the most power have natively tuned reflashed ecus.. or standalones
The Xede isn't a traditional piggy-back, at least not in the vien that most people are used to seeing. So I'm not sure how much your statement applies. Nor do the tuning requirments of a E36 M3 have much in common with the 335i (MAP sensor, direction injection, continuous closed loop, boosted, etc,.) So while I understand where you are coming from, I think I could easily change your mind with a demonstration

Cheers,
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      11-24-2006, 01:01 PM   #147
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Oh, listen, Ive got absolutely nothing against what youve done with the Exede. To the contrary, I think its Spectacular! I guess all I am saying is that, given time, Im sure you guys will come out with an ECU flash for the 335i, just as you have for the Evo and the STI, and when you do, Im sure its going to give you more control over the cars key functions than your Exede implementation. . Dont you find that to be true with your current applications, where you offer both exede and reflash technology?

There are piggy backs for our E36 M3s also... Plugnplay Unichip implementations, and others.. And noone thinks that they even play in the same ballpark as the well tuned ecu applications out there.

Perhaps its different with the 335i, but Id be surprised.. at the other end of the spectrum, we have the Standalones, which probably give the Most control to the tuner. But they take so much development to get them right, that, at least in the E36 world, theres really only one guy who makes well respected PnP standalone products.. And the ecu reflash world of the E36 is not all that different.. Probably only 2-3 individuals making really good reflash, native ecu products for the e36 m3.

>>continuous closed loop<<

You mean, the E90/92 is in closed loop all the time... no WOT Open Loop mode????
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      11-24-2006, 04:40 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrH
Shiv, why havent you put the product up on your website yet???
There isn't even a mention of BMW... and here its all everyone is talking about...
Anyways, keep up the good work, hopefully I'll get to meet you and see how everything is going when you come to S. FL
With all the work you are doing, You should mention it on your website IMHO
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      11-24-2006, 05:08 PM   #149
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Any word on the 100 octane map and maybe a dyno graph?
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      11-24-2006, 05:37 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jusbechillin
Oviously Shiv has stated where he is headed to do these xede installs right now.... BUT I cant find it in the thread... What state/city is he headed to? Also How many peeps are there in Arizona ready to jump on this? THANKS!
I'm in AZ and ready to go too! I sent Shiv a PM a while back, well, 2 PM's now. I'm sure we have plenty of people here we could round up. I think we need to start a thread in the South West Forum. Somehow we need to get everyone in AZ together and ready to go...
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      11-24-2006, 05:58 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by joshesh
Any word on the 100 octane map and maybe a dyno graph?
I haven't done one yet. I'll probably get around to it in then next two weeks on my own car. I'm sure I'll do at least one in Miami in a few week as well. Almost did one last night up here in Canada but the shop ran out of 100 octane

-shiv
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      11-24-2006, 06:11 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostm3
Im sure you guys will come out with an ECU flash for the 335i, just as you have for the Evo and the STI, and when you do, Im sure its going to give you more control over the cars key functions than your Exede implementation. Dont you find that to be true with your current applications, where you offer both exede and reflash technology?
There are piggy backs for our E36 M3s also... Plugnplay Unichip implementations, and others.. And noone thinks that they even play in the same ballpark as the well tuned ecu applications out there.
Back in 2001, we were the biggest Unichip dealer in America. It worked reasonably well for the time (and for the price) but it had its shortcomings (CAS replication, software inflexibility, hardware limitations, etc,.). Since then, the XEDE was designed from the ground-up to provide the unparalled flexibility to adapt to any number of cars. We can and do things with the XEDE that we cannot dream of doing with the factory ECU (or any other stand alone or piggyback system for that matter).

In the case of the EVO, the ultimate engine control package we offer is a reflash/xede combo. The reflash is there only for injector scaling and raised rev limits (MAF based). The XEDE, by virtue of its greater mapping resolution (way better than the stock ECU) and ability to nest maps within other maps as a function of wideband input, knock buffer input, lean run conditions, etc,. functions as the primary tuning device. We see something similar with the 335i. However, being MAP referenced, there is no issue with raising boost limits with the XEDE. And being direct injection and running closed loop all the time, there is no need to upgrade injectors any time in the foreseeable future. So I'm not sure where the flash comes into play. Especially when warranty is a major concern.

Quote:
Perhaps its different with the 335i, but Id be surprised.. at the other end of the spectrum, we have the Standalones, which probably give the Most control to the tuner. But they take so much development to get them right, that, at least in the E36 world, theres really only one guy who makes well respected PnP standalone products.. And the ecu reflash world of the E36 is not all that different.. Probably only 2-3 individuals making really good reflash, native ecu products for the e36 m3.
It is different with the 335i. That's why we are investing so much time into the platform. As for stand-alones, I started my company in '99 offering and tuning stand alone systems for aftermarket turbocharged cars. They are a thing of the past, IMHO. I don't think I'd ever stick a stand-alone of any time in my road car. Modern fatory ECUs are way more adaptable and smarter than any stand-alone I've come across in recent years.

Quote:
>>continuous closed loop<<

You mean, the E90/92 is in closed loop all the time... no WOT Open Loop mode????
Correct. Closed loop all the time. Aint that a hoot?

Cheers,
shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 11-29-2006 at 01:31 AM.
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      11-27-2006, 12:08 PM   #153
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Quote-
And being direct injection and running closed loop all the time, there is no need to upgrade injectors any time in the foreseeable future.

So you are saying the injectors are able to supply a LOT more fuel on a modified system than the standard power level needs? this is good news but surprising. Its realy good actualy, as i cant see it being easy to find higher capacity injectors, given that direct injection is very new tech and only fitted to a very few cars.
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      11-27-2006, 12:09 PM   #154
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the car must have a really fancy fuel pump as well, i bet one of those isnt cheap!
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