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      04-04-2010, 08:59 AM   #1
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I recently intsalled the JB3, upgrading from the Procede R1. Everything ran smoothly since last week up until yesterday. Yesterday afternoon, after installing an Aero front lip and painting the lower mesh grills black, I was tweaking the power cables for my audio system, so I disconnected the battery. After I was done with the system i reconnected the battery and tried to start the car to go for a drive but I was receiving HPFP failure symptoms. Long start, shaky car, and stalls. So I called my friend at BMW and he told me "take the JB3 out and i'll take the car in on Monday." So I took it out and and started the car and it ran perfectly. So i figured let me try to reinstall the JB3 again, I did and the car gave the same symptoms after the reinstall. I then uninstalled the JB3 and again no issues. Now i have my Procede R1 in the car again and i am having no issues. I am still going to have the pressure on of the FP tested by my friend but i am thinking the JB3 went bad or something, it was very hot when I took it out of the car but there are no signs of blown resistors or trace lines on the board, i also did not smell anything burnt in the unit itself. The pins on the PNP are all in perfect condition and the JB3 was working supremely for the past week.

Last edited by StatenEye 535i; 04-16-2010 at 10:20 PM.
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      04-04-2010, 09:19 AM   #2
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What version 1.4 or 2.0 do you have? and what board? G2 or G3 (with the connector on both ends)

Are you sure you have installed everything correctly? Are you disconnecting the battery when uninstalling and installing or putting the car to sleep?
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      04-04-2010, 09:24 AM   #3
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Can you snap a pic of the installed unit (sub, connectors) etc. and email it to me.

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      04-04-2010, 09:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Can you snap a pic of the installed unit (sub, connectors) etc. and email it to me.

Mike
I sent the pics of the unit. It is not installed, if you want me to reinstall it and snap pics i can. Let me know
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      04-04-2010, 10:06 AM   #5
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I highly doubt it's an install thing. It was working fine for a week or so and only started acting up after the battery was disconnected. The op mentions doing some work but nothing mentioned takes him into the ecu box...
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      04-04-2010, 04:39 PM   #6
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JB3 software corruption possibility. Try to re-burn/re-load software on to chip...

Had a similar issue few days ego by the sounds of your description when I was updating to the latest beta release and corrupted/deleted software on JB3. The car would not start and when it did it idled very rough, threw CEL and LIMP.... After re-loading the software the problem went away...

Good luck in getting it resolved.

PS even if you try to switch to MAP 0 it would still run like shit, until I re-loaded the software.... Which was certainly an eye opener to me, since I would of expected JB3 would go into total by-pass mode with corrupted or unloaded software...
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Last edited by Belarus; 04-04-2010 at 04:55 PM.
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      04-04-2010, 04:45 PM   #7
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software got corrupted 100%. reburn or use the interface to reload the firmware. Same thing happened to me. Car will crank forever then just die. By pulling the battery you could have shorted the JB3, unlikely but it happens.
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      04-04-2010, 05:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belarus View Post
JB3 software corruption possibility. Try to re-burn/re-load software on to chip...

Had a similar issue few days ego by the sounds of your description when I was updating to the latest beta release and corrupted/deleted software on JB3. The car would not start and when it did it idled very rough, threw CEL and LIMP.... After re-loading the software the problem went away...

Good luck in getting it resolved.

PS even if you try to switch to MAP 0 it would still run like shit, until I re-loaded the software.... Which was certainly an eye opener to me, since I would of expected JB3 would go into total by-pass mode with corrupted or unloaded software...
If you're uploading firmware and it fails to load then yes definitely don't start the car. The interface will give you the same warning.

"JB3 is currently without firmware. Starting the motor will result in a long crank, multiple check engine lights, and will not operate properly. You must upload firmware before attempting to operate the vehicle."

mike
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      04-04-2010, 06:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
If you're uploading firmware and it fails to load then yes definitely don't start the car. The interface will give you the same warning.

"JB3 is currently without firmware. Starting the motor will result in a long crank, multiple check engine lights, and will not operate properly. You must upload firmware before attempting to operate the vehicle."

mike
Fully aware of it as of two days ago after my experience. However during the load if it happens it doesn't pop that message, until you disconnect and reconnect. At that point JB software interface recognizes if software is missing due to corruption or bad load or etc and it'll pop the message you've stated.

However it doesn't address my comment about the by-pass as a fail safe. Luckily it happened to me at home while I was performing an update. However what if the software corrupts while you're on the road, albeit the chances of that happening might be minimum to non but we all know sh!t happens... e.g electrical spike anomaly. I would be pissed being stack on the middle of the road with out tools trying to by pass JB3 to get car back to normal operations to get home or....

Therefore I would love to see BMS introduce fail safe by-pass in JB3 in case of something like that to occur.
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      04-04-2010, 06:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belarus View Post
Therefore I would love to see BMS introduce have a fail safe by-pass in JB3 in case of something like that to occur.
I imagine this would involve retrofitting micro relays onto the board to complete the MAP, Crank and Fuel pressure circuits in case of a system failure.

Shiv
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      04-04-2010, 06:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belarus View Post
Fully aware of it as of two days ago after my experience. However during the load if it happens it doesn't pop that message, until you disconnect and reconnect. At that point JB software interface recognizes if software is missing due to corruption or bad load or etc and it'll pop the message you've stated.

However it doesn't address my comment about the by-pass as a fail safe. Luckily it happened to me at home while I was performing an update. However what if the software corrupts while you're on the road, albeit the chances of that happening might be minimum to non but we all know sh!t happens... e.g electrical spike anomaly. I would be pissed being stack on the middle of the road with out tools trying to by pass JB3 to get car back to normal operations to get home or....

Therefore I would love to see BMS introduce fail safe by-pass in JB3 in case of something like that to occur.
When the firmware fails to upload it prompts you letting you know. Once you've started a firmware update you have no choice but to finish it so don't start it until you have the time/resources handy to see it through. If you were doing an upload and your laptop died for example, you're dead in the water until you get another laptop or physically remove the box. So plan those updates accordingly. Without firmware the JB3 is as useful as a computer without an operating system.

Mike
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      04-04-2010, 06:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I imagine this would involve retrofitting micro relays onto the board to complete the MAP, Crank and Fuel pressure circuits in case of a system failure.

Shiv
I was thinking more of a simple "relay". JB3 detects it has a fault and it switches to pass through mode. Comparing to IT world IPS (Intrusion Prevention Systems) since they're usually inband device that sniff IP traffic if they're to fail due to software or hardware fault they would become nothing more then a pass through device i.e. "wire" extension.
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      04-04-2010, 06:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belarus View Post
I was thinking more of a simple "relay". JB3 detects it has a fault and it switches to pass through mode. Comparing to IT world IPS (Intrusion Prevention Systems) since they're usually inband device that sniff IP traffic if they're to fail due to software or hardware fault they would become nothing more then a pass through device i.e. "wire" extension.
Yep... i was referring to the same thing. The relays would remain in bypass mode until the tune "wakes up" and does a self-check. This is the function of the visible DPDT relay in our Rev1 PnP harness. With Rev.2, we moved it on to the PCB board itself.

Shiv
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      04-04-2010, 06:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
When the firmware fails to upload it prompts you letting you know. Once you've started a firmware update you have no choice but to finish it so don't start it until you have the time/resources handy to see it through. If you were doing an upload and your laptop died for example, you're dead in the water until you get another laptop or physically remove the box. So plan those updates accordingly. Without firmware the JB3 is as useful as a computer without an operating system.

Mike
Mike we're just going in circles.... you still didn't address my main comment.... BTW I'm fully aware by modifying my car it's the risks I'm taking and accepted them, however if there are opportunities for tuner(s) product creators to improve certain fail safe features it'll make the existing customers that much more loyal to their tuner and attract new customers...

Prime example: METH Kits everyone is seeing more members over the past 3-4 months getting them for N54 engines. Some of the reasons IMHO:
- It's actually good for your engine longevity
- One of the top bang for your dollar HP gains
- Inter-portability with Terry's and Shiv's piggy-back's
- Fail safe to detect if you run out of Meth and automatically to "step" down MAP to engine safe operating mode...
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      04-04-2010, 07:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belarus View Post
Fully aware of it as of two days ago after my experience. However during the load if it happens it doesn't pop that message, until you disconnect and reconnect. At that point JB software interface recognizes if software is missing due to corruption or bad load or etc and it'll pop the message you've stated.

However it doesn't address my comment about the by-pass as a fail safe. Luckily it happened to me at home while I was performing an update. However what if the software corrupts while you're on the road, albeit the chances of that happening might be minimum to non but we all know sh!t happens... e.g electrical spike anomaly. I would be pissed being stack on the middle of the road with out tools trying to by pass JB3 to get car back to normal operations to get home or....

Therefore I would love to see BMS introduce fail safe by-pass in JB3 in case of something like that to occur.
not really an issue. I had the same thing happen to me after work; I was updating in the parking lot. Upload failed. I tried to start the car anyways and it was all messed up. Increased timeout as the instructions suggested, restarted laptop and attempted to reload with success. I think if one follows the instructions as written, there is no need for complex protection; perhaps just more attention to making sure people read the instructions.
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      04-04-2010, 07:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Yep... i was referring to the same thing. The relays would remain in bypass mode until the tune "wakes up" and does a self-check. This is the function of the visible DPDT relay in our Rev1 PnP harness. With Rev.2, we moved it on to the PCB board itself.

Shiv


The value of this type of threads, that helps new OPs in their decision with which tuner to go with. However I've been over all happy with Terry's JB3 creation and for now staying loyal to him...

Even though I'm also wasn't very happy about BMS gauge inter-portability (after an investment of over $200+ into it less than a year ago) after upgrading to Ver 2.00, luckily there is a simple and cheap DYI to have it working with Ver 2.00 (minus MAP switching).
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      04-04-2010, 07:14 PM   #17
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not really an issue. I had the same thing happen to me after work; I was updating in the parking lot. Upload failed. I tried to start the car anyways and it was all messed up. Increased timeout as the instructions suggested, restarted laptop and attempted to reload with success. I think if one follows the instructions as written, there is no need for complex protection; perhaps just more attention to making sure people read the instructions.
That's how I solved my upload issue. But again that's all fine if you have the laptop and it happens during your update. My main concern if corruption happens while you're on the road... with out your laptop or tools, and as I've stated speaking hypothetically software corrupts due to electrical spike anomaly. If that's to happen and piggy back doesn't have a true by pass fail safe you're SOL...
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      04-04-2010, 07:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I imagine this would involve retrofitting micro relays onto the board to complete the MAP, Crank and Fuel pressure circuits in case of a system failure.

Shiv
As you know you would need to relay EVERY intercepted signal including VSS, boost solenoid 1&2, rear o2 bank a&b, etc, for such a failsafe to work. Relaying just 2 or 3 of the signals would serve no purpose. But relays won't protect you from corrupting firmware during an update. The nice thing about the JB3 is at least you know its corrupt. Rather than driving around and finding out only after your boost goes crazy...

I don't think firmware is the OPs problem as he didn't mention he was doing a firmware update. Probably something hardware related I'd guess but would take some troubleshooting.

Mike
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      04-04-2010, 07:27 PM   #19
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I don't need to argue with you Mike. Because I know that rarely goes anywhere. But the purpose of a failsafe is just that.... a failsafe. So the car can drive. Not so that it doesn't through any codes.

Shiv

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
As you know you would need to relay EVERY intercepted signal including VSS, boost solenoid 1&2, rear o2 bank a&b, etc, for such a failsafe to work. Relaying just 2 or 3 of the signals would serve no purpose. But relays won't protect you from corrupting firmware during an update. The nice thing about the JB3 is at least you know its corrupt. Rather than driving around and finding out only after your boost goes crazy...

I don't think firmware is the OPs problem as he didn't mention he was doing a firmware update. Probably something hardware related I'd guess but would take some troubleshooting.

Mike
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      04-04-2010, 07:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
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However what if the software corrupts while you're on the road, albeit the chances of that happening might be minimum to non but we all know sh!t happens... e.g electrical spike anomaly. I would be pissed being stack on the middle of the road with out tools trying to by pass JB3 to get car back to normal operations to get home or...
I wonder if this is a limitation of BMS not following the manufacturer of the JB3 processor recommendations on filters, etc. If you look at the suggested circuit diagram of the chip used, many items are missing.

To the OP, reload and go. You should be fine.

However, the reason for many of the additional component is not for 99% of the applications. It is for the less than 1% that have anomalies. Why BMS took short cuts here is beyond me. It would not have changed the price much if anything.
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      04-04-2010, 07:30 PM   #21
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I still use the Bms tuning gauge with 2.0. The only functionality it lacks is map switching. I still get iats and psi.

You can buy a Y splitter and have both the gauge and USB connectivity.
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      04-04-2010, 07:34 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I don't need to argue with you Mike. Because I know that rarely goes anywhere. But the purpose of a failsafe is just that.... a failsafe. So the car can drive. Not so that it doesn't through any codes.

Shiv
Shiv and Mike, I don't consider this type of discussions between two of you as an argument vs a good debate . The reason I like to read them and learn about each tune PROS & CONS. At the end based on the information I've learned by reading, I'm empowered to make a decision what I believe addresses my requirements and accept the risks that are acceptable to me.
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