E90Post
 


MINHS Auto Care Center
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > Major paint issue, advice appreciated...***Now with pics***



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-21-2010, 05:36 PM   #67
MEGA
Dieseasal
 
MEGA's Avatar
 
Drives: LCI E92 335d M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Harrow, London

Posts: 6,825
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via MSN to MEGA
I had it too. Used a sillicone based spray on cleaner at the local polish place to remove it. Bit of elbow grease too

Do probably need to re-wax now though.. I guess that stuff stripped all my protection off...

Dave
__________________
Previously: 2003 Peugeot 206 1.6 8v | 2006 E90 320d M-Sport, 19" BBS CH, Full Ice-cold JL audio install, August 2010 Total BMW 6 page feature car. | 2003 Nissan 350Z GT Coupe 286BHP
Now:2010 E92 LCI 335d M-Sport
MEGA is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      04-21-2010, 05:42 PM   #68
jingle68
Private
 
jingle68's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 330d SE Coupe Auto 2007
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Northampton

Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxicnerve View Post
That is the most insane-in-the-membrane thing I've ever heard!

Sadly, my oven isn't big enough to fit the car in and nor do I have a garage/room that I can get the car into to dry these spots off.

I guess the next best thing is to try a hair dryer has the chap above suggested. I will give it a shot tomorrow and report back.

I assume if all else fails and the problem is indeed water absorbed into the lacquer...leaving the motor out in the Sun should help? It's a black car so heats up quite a lot when in direct Sun...

What do you think?
2 weeks ago I inspected a brand new mk6 golf gti in black which had just been delivered to the dealership , it had been pdi'd & registered for delivery & was just going to the valeters to have superguard protection applied when the valeter notice it was covered in these marks, he tried for an hour to polish the marks out before i was called to inspect the vehicle.
I quickly removed a patch by using a heatgun to prove that it was moisture absorbed into the top coat, the vehicle was then left outside in the sunshine for the rest of the day & then in the heated workshop overnight.All the remainding marks had gone by the morning.

Before you pay out to attempt to 'fix' your vehicle , i suggest trying a hairdryer on a patch to either confirm or dispell my opinion.

Jingle68

Extract from VW paint & body inspection manual...

This is due to moisture lying beneath the top coat.

This is not a warrantable defect and the bodywork does not need to be repaired. Any work required is part of the PDI process costs.

Remedy

To remove the water mark, gently warm the affected area with a heat gun until the marks disappear. Alternatively, you can use a paint drying lamp. With either method, make sure that you do not get too close or set the temperature too high.

The water marks can also be removed simply by leaving the car in a warm room overnight.

Any such marks in the paintwork must be removed before delivery to customers.
jingle68 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      04-21-2010, 07:48 PM   #69
EddieL
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 320i M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK

Posts: 284
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxicnerve View Post
Eddie,

I appreciate what you are saying but no matter how you look at it a machine polish will reduce paint thickness and of therefore the available paint thickness for any future corrections.

If a polish is the only solution then so be it but surely it is advisable to exhaust other potential solutions first?

As suggested by flyfs6 I will take my car to one of the local recommended pro-detailers to get an "eyes-on" opinion. Also the opinion of Dodo Factory is not to be disregarded surely?
I am only trying to reassure you that a machine polish will not detract from your car and will indeed enhance it.

Yes always go down the least aggressive route and step up till the problem has been dealt with.

Dodo Factory (Dom) is one person I would certainly listen to, and have in the past. He would be high on my list of people I would hope for to reply to a cry for help. But listen to what he has said so far.

I guess the harder clears are resisting the metal particles better.
it is definitely 'fallout' of some nature.
Obviously, if it could be confirmed as railway fallout it would help. This does seem the prime theory but isn't set in stone yet.


I'm sure our clears are amongst the hardest around.

As I said earlier, once you know what has caused it then you can start to deal with it.

Still you seem to be going in the right direction towards a solution. Wish you the best.
__________________
AW 320i M Sport|18" 193M|Black Dakota|Sat Nav|Loudspeaker System|Sun Protection + Grey Shade|Heated Seats|Visibility Package|
EddieL is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2010, 02:55 PM   #70
GX337
Private
 
Drives: 335i DCT m sport coupe
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: bucks

Posts: 53
iTrader: (0)

As in my earlier post i had the same marks on my alfa, i always wash with mitts etc and never have had this problem before. I tried AG paint restorer but no difference at all, so i just left it and a week later the marks were gone with the few remaining marks coming off with a light finger rub!. I don`t live near railway lines but it definately looks like some kind of atmospheric fall out(pre volcano).
GX337 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2010, 03:54 PM   #71
Jamese93
First Lieutenant
 
Jamese93's Avatar
 
Drives: E34 525i SE
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Borough, London

Posts: 340
iTrader: (0)

Interesting thread!

For what it' worth, I had a 2008 e93 in sparkling graphite. The paint was absolutely crap - really really bad - flies burnt into the laquer (when bugs hit their acidic guts burn into the paint). BMW finally accepted it was sub-standard and bought the car back.

However, in the basement here there are a few 2008 Bimmers, and lo and behold a montego blue saloon has fly marks burnt all over the front, the same as mine had, and a black one series has the same - these are visible just walking past before you think I'm very strange examining my neighbours motors!

No other beemers have done it (in terms of years) and my current 2009 one is perfect - I just think there was something wrong with the laquer and it was to soft at some point around 2008, and they've now generally fixed it. Strange, but my view for what it's worth. If the marks are burnt in as others say only option is to polish the coat down a tiny bit with a machine polish to "remove" the marks. Good luck!
Jamese93 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2010, 04:12 PM   #72
sniffer
Private First Class
 
sniffer's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK

Posts: 117
iTrader: (1)

I would bet it is to do with cost cutting.

I met a guy recently who worked for BMW in Munich.

When the economy tanked and sales dried up, BMW were nervous and embarked on a cost cutting programme, which ultimately would have affected the product.

This is why we see things being removed from the LCI cars.
sniffer is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2010, 04:40 AM   #73
jingle68
Private
 
jingle68's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 330d SE Coupe Auto 2007
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Northampton

Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniffer View Post
I would bet it is to do with cost cutting.

I met a guy recently who worked for BMW in Munich.

When the economy tanked and sales dried up, BMW were nervous and embarked on a cost cutting programme, which ultimately would have affected the product.

This is why we see things being removed from the LCI cars.
its nothing to do with cost cutting, its all to do with worldwide Legislation to lower the legal limits of Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) which are found in paint.

This has forced all motor vehicle manufacturers to use water based (also known as Waterbourne) paint on vehicles instead of the old traditional 'Solvent' based paint which contains Volatile Organic Compounds.

VOC is a very broad term used to label chemicals such as thinners that evaporate very easily from the liquids they were mixed in solution with.

Unfortunately , despite the best efforts of the paint manufacturers, water based paints will absorb moisture etc until technoligy advances ,unlike the old solvent based paints which had a hard coating or seal.

I hope this makes sense?
jingle68 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2010, 05:59 AM   #74
toxicnerve
Colonel
 
Drives: E92 335d M-Sport
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 2,834
iTrader: (2)

jingle, heating up the spots did nothing for my car. Also it has to be said that the Sun has probably got the panels hotter than my missus' hair dryer every could!!

I am going to get Rob from Gleam Machine to have a look, I called but not answer so waiting on a call back. Hopefully once he has had an eyes-on look he will be able to offer advice/a solution.
toxicnerve is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2010, 09:42 AM   #75
jingle68
Private
 
jingle68's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 330d SE Coupe Auto 2007
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Northampton

Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxicnerve View Post
jingle, heating up the spots did nothing for my car. Also it has to be said that the Sun has probably got the panels hotter than my missus' hair dryer every could!!

I am going to get Rob from Gleam Machine to have a look, I called but not answer so waiting on a call back. Hopefully once he has had an eyes-on look he will be able to offer advice/a solution.
well at least you have eliminated my theory, sorry it isnt as simple as a moisture issue, i hope you get it resolved.
jingle68 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2010, 10:06 AM   #76
toxicnerve
Colonel
 
Drives: E92 335d M-Sport
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 2,834
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jingle68 View Post
well at least you have eliminated my theory, sorry it isnt as simple as a moisture issue, i hope you get it resolved.
Thanks for trying mate!
toxicnerve is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-26-2010, 06:41 AM   #77
flyfs6
Captain
 
Drives: Alpina B7 Bi
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London

Posts: 658
iTrader: (0)

What did Rob say?
flyfs6 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-26-2010, 06:51 AM   #78
toxicnerve
Colonel
 
Drives: E92 335d M-Sport
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 2,834
iTrader: (2)

Ah, he tried to call me the other day but I was on my way out and I've not had a chance to get back to him.

I'm pretty tied up now but I will try and get in touch with him when I get a minute. Might be a while though!!

In the meantime, the spots, while still there are now much less apparent which is nice!!
toxicnerve is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-26-2010, 08:03 AM   #79
sniffer
Private First Class
 
sniffer's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK

Posts: 117
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jingle68 View Post
its nothing to do with cost cutting, its all to do with worldwide Legislation to lower the legal limits of Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) which are found in paint.

This has forced all motor vehicle manufacturers to use water based (also known as Waterbourne) paint on vehicles instead of the old traditional 'Solvent' based paint which contains Volatile Organic Compounds.

VOC is a very broad term used to label chemicals such as thinners that evaporate very easily from the liquids they were mixed in solution with.

Unfortunately , despite the best efforts of the paint manufacturers, water based paints will absorb moisture etc until technoligy advances ,unlike the old solvent based paints which had a hard coating or seal.

I hope this makes sense?
Yes it does make sense. I thought water based paints had been in use for a little while though and thought it strange that there seemed to be a lot of cars suffering that are built around 08.

My reasoning was that perhaps something was changed in an effort to lower build cost(s).
sniffer is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-26-2010, 08:33 AM   #80
jjbirch
Banned
 
jjbirch's Avatar
 
Drives: E60 530D M SPORT
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: england

Posts: 2,927
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
i have just noticed it on my boot, tryed claying and polish but no good, my try the hair dryer
jjbirch is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-26-2010, 04:44 PM   #81
jingle68
Private
 
jingle68's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 330d SE Coupe Auto 2007
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Northampton

Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjbirch View Post
i have just noticed it on my boot, tryed claying and polish but no good, my try the hair dryer
to be honest its normally on new vehicles where moisture absorbes into the top coat , otherwise it would be 'fallout' of somekind, either industrial or natural
jingle68 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      04-26-2010, 05:22 PM   #82
Mike-Bracknell
Private
 
Drives: '07 E90 M-Sport 320d
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bracknell, Berks, UK

Posts: 51
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniffer View Post
Yes it does make sense. I thought water based paints had been in use for a little while though and thought it strange that there seemed to be a lot of cars suffering that are built around 08.

My reasoning was that perhaps something was changed in an effort to lower build cost(s).
Well I was told by the DuPont paint sprayer who sprayed my S1 Elise in 1998 the same story about the switch to water based paints (which were happening at Lotus at that time), so yes it has been around for at least a decade.
Mike-Bracknell is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      05-11-2010, 10:52 AM   #83
789456
Registered
 
Drives: multiple
Join Date: May 2010
Location: London

Posts: 1
iTrader: (0)

I think i have the same issue

I have two fairly new BMWs and appear to have a similar issue so I thought I would share what I have seen


I had them both professionally washed at different companies in different locations just before Easter and they were returned completely dry and the paintowrk was fine (I always check to ensure they have not been scratched whilst being cleaned). So they werent left out in the sun to dry after being cleaned with tap water.

When one of them was cleaned over the last weekend of April the company told me that I had major paint problems as there we significant markings all over the bonnet , boot and on the tops of the doors and wings. I then cleaned the other one myself and it had exactly the same issue. It is hard to describe in writing but the pictures in this post are near as damn identical

My local BMW dealer told me to get the car professionally polished by a specialist. They also said that they had seen other cars with the same issue.

I asked around friends and coleagues about who i could trust with one of my cars and chose a company quite a way from my house as they were the best recommendation. . They said they were confident but it would take a days worth of work by a team of people.

Unfortunately they were unable to remove this with conventional means so suggested a more involved process which i think they said was something like - extensive cutting and correctional work including wet sanding which would take between 2 and 3 days. (seems to match with some of the other comments)

I decided to get this done on the older of the two cars and the positive outcome is that they got rid of them, the negative one is that my bank balance is significabtly smaller.

I have been in touch with BMW customer services about this and as yet have had no positive response.
789456 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-29-2011, 06:10 AM   #84
Rainbowoverwales
Registered
 
Drives: BMW 520d
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cotswolds

Posts: 1
iTrader: (0)

I took delivery of my brand new F10 520d BMW (in Jet Black) exactly 4 months ago and I paid an extra 400 for the Supaguard Paint Protection. The car has been hand-washed once a week as well as any bird mess being removed as soon as it is noticed. However, even though the bird mess is removed so that the paintwork is completely smooth, it leaves an in-grained greyish mark in the paintwork which is unremovable. The same problem occurs with dead insects on the front and bonnet as well as the door mirrors - the dead insects can be removed but they leave an in-grained stain in the paintwork. The result being that the paintwork on my car is already badly marked, diminishing both the appearance and the value.

Prior to buying my BMW I had a black VW Golf for 6 years, which has the same usage and was kept in the same place. The paintwork of the Golf never suffered from any of these problems. My partner had a 10 year old dark blue BMW which never had paintwork problems and he now has a 9 year old light green BMW which again is fine.

It would appear from the postings on various internet sites that this is an inherrent problem with the new water-based BMW paint and is especially bad/noticeable on the black cars. As far as I am concerned, if the new paint BMW are using can be marked so easily during normal everyday usage, it is not fit for purpose. I am planning to return my car to the dealer this week and tell them this.
Rainbowoverwales is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-29-2011, 08:02 AM   #85
Hotcoupe
Major General
 
Hotcoupe's Avatar
 
Drives: Don't know yet!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK

Posts: 6,098
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowoverwales View Post
I took delivery of my brand new F10 520d BMW (in Jet Black) exactly 4 months ago and I paid an extra 400 for the Supaguard Paint Protection. The car has been hand-washed once a week as well as any bird mess being removed as soon as it is noticed. However, even though the bird mess is removed so that the paintwork is completely smooth, it leaves an in-grained greyish mark in the paintwork which is unremovable. The same problem occurs with dead insects on the front and bonnet as well as the door mirrors - the dead insects can be removed but they leave an in-grained stain in the paintwork. The result being that the paintwork on my car is already badly marked, diminishing both the appearance and the value.

Prior to buying my BMW I had a black VW Golf for 6 years, which has the same usage and was kept in the same place. The paintwork of the Golf never suffered from any of these problems. My partner had a 10 year old dark blue BMW which never had paintwork problems and he now has a 9 year old light green BMW which again is fine.

It would appear from the postings on various internet sites that this is an inherrent problem with the new water-based BMW paint and is especially bad/noticeable on the black cars. As far as I am concerned, if the new paint BMW are using can be marked so easily during normal everyday usage, it is not fit for purpose. I am planning to return my car to the dealer this week and tell them this.
Good luck with the above Rainbow,don't expect much joy from the dealer though in terms of the BMW paint.
In your circumstance I'd be demanding back the 400.00 you paid for the Supaguard paint protection, which is possibly the biggest misnomer possible, and is nothing more than a rip off.

BMW should be ashamed of themselves for still promoting what is a total waste of money.
__________________
=================================


Never argue with an idiot on the internet. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Hotcoupe is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      05-29-2011, 09:44 AM   #86
chrismanchr
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 1986 mr2 mk1
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: manchester england

Posts: 222
iTrader: (0)

ive got some of those marks also although mine is a solid colour (crimson red) and they are hardly noticable they are at the bottom of the drivers door and near the b post ,but i thought they might of been someone being too hard with a machine polisher
chrismanchr is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-31-2011, 06:25 AM   #87
ab2pcs
Second Lieutenant
 
ab2pcs's Avatar
 
Drives: 320i M sport plus
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Scotland

Posts: 257
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Could it be cement dust .....been near any construction sites ???
ab2pcs is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      05-31-2011, 08:12 AM   #88
toxicnerve
Colonel
 
Drives: E92 335d M-Sport
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 2,834
iTrader: (2)

The cement dust theory was proposed over on Detailing World too.

Next time I wash the car I will check but IIRC the spots appear to have faded but that might be just because I had a couple of coats of wax on.
toxicnerve is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
paint, toxic

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:29 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST