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      04-28-2010, 12:30 PM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flymosquera View Post
Hey I see that you do this for a living. I have a question regarding what vinyl to use and I think you are the best person to ask. I have been looking at the oracol 651, 751 and 951. Which of these do you recommend to use to wrap the car. Or do you know another web page or distributer that I can call that sells a good quality vinyl?
thanks for your help
I've been doing a lotta research on this stuff coming from zero knowledge (or at leastj ust starting from what some of the more experienced guys in this post have stated) --- If you're going with oracal 951 is the only way to go...

There are reasons (for and against) oracal in general... and it seems that its pretty much universal that the 3M stuff posted above is the 'cadillac' of materials to use in wrapping (not that that i doesn't have its flaws though)
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      04-28-2010, 12:33 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by ronn16E90 View Post
I just ripped my roof vinyl coz Im goin to redo it.I did a not so good job in cutting the sides and I am pretty anal about it LOL. Its fine!!! the paint didnt really got messed up and btw I used DRY application so its VERY STICKY!!I had plenty of the sticky marks but after I washed it, everything is good and there are no marks or w/e
what vinyl did you use?
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      04-28-2010, 12:38 PM   #333
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So you recommend me if I am going with oracol to use the 951 correct? also another quick question if I want to get the 3m which is like the "cadillac" of vinyls were can I buy it?

thanks
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      04-28-2010, 12:49 PM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starbai View Post
I've been doing a lotta research on this stuff coming from zero knowledge (or at leastj ust starting from what some of the more experienced guys in this post have stated) --- If you're going with oracal 951 is the only way to go...

There are reasons (for and against) oracal in general... and it seems that its pretty much universal that the 3M stuff posted above is the 'cadillac' of materials to use in wrapping (not that that i doesn't have its flaws though)
why not 751?? is the adhesive too strong?
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      04-28-2010, 12:58 PM   #335
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dang looks awesome, i want some vinyl like that for 120$ lol
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      04-28-2010, 01:56 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronn16E90 View Post
I just ripped my roof vinyl coz Im goin to redo it.I did a not so good job in cutting the sides and I am pretty anal about it LOL. Its fine!!! the paint didnt really got messed up and btw I used DRY application so its VERY STICKY!!I had plenty of the sticky marks but after I washed it, everything is good and there are no marks or w/e
what vinyl are you using?
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      04-28-2010, 01:59 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flymosquera View Post
Hey I see that you do this for a living. I have a question regarding what vinyl to use and I think you are the best person to ask. I have been looking at the oracol 651, 751 and 951. Which of these do you recommend to use to wrap the car. Or do you know another web page or distributer that I can call that sells a good quality vinyl?
thanks for your help
I don't really like using Oracal products. The company doesn't stand behind their warranty (well in Canada anyway). If you research their line of film, you will find that the 651 is not the way to go. Personally I would use either 751 or 951 if you are stuck wanting to use Oracal. However the adhesive is permanent, so it has to go down wet for you to get it wrinkle free.

My preferred line of choice is 3M. If it is just a solid colour you are looking for or a digital printed graphic film. 3M has the best adhesive on the market, and their films are far easier to work with then the competitors material. Look for a product with "Comply" like the 3M 225 Series. The key is to have it laminated and with the "Comply" it makes installation a breeze because it has a time release adhesive so you can reposition the vinyl without worrying about the glue permanently sticking right away and ruining your wrap job. Plus you don't need an application fluid, just slap it down dry and there is no waiting for the fluid to evaporate.

This is just my opinion. The guy that used the Flat Black film, unfortunately, his only choice was to use an intermediate film. There is no manufacturer that makes a flat finish material that is 2mil hi-performance cast film. The only think I would do differently is to use 3M's Black 225 series with a matte laminate to get the same effect.
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      04-28-2010, 02:01 PM   #338
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very clean job... nicely done!
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      04-28-2010, 02:03 PM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme_sign_guy View Post
There is no manufacturer that makes a flat finish material that is 2mil hi-performance cast film. The only think I would do differently is to use 3M's Black 225 series with a matte laminate to get the same effect.
About how much would that cost to get enough done to do an entire car?


Steve
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      04-28-2010, 02:14 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahyesiam View Post
Yes a good wrap will preserve the paint.
I bet you used a good laminated wrap cast with removable adhesive and not Ora-frickin-cal 651 or 751 with permanent adhesive. Not to mention the key is you are trained at it and do it for a living. Obviously you have never had to remove a bad install or one without a laminate on it. Or one that the clear coat came off with the vinyl from to much heat when it was installed (that happens on cheaper cars like Scions). Try your de-grease on Oracal 3551 with that nasty gray adhesive that someone went nuts with the Primer 94 adhesive promoter. A jack hammer won't take that stuff off.
Totally! I agree totally.
And yes, I have had the pleasure of removing crap that you could only imagine. That's what happens when you don't know what you are doing. If you use a primer on vehicle finish... say good by to it. Primers are only to be used on replaceable areas or rubber, petroleum plastics and such material that vinyl won't stick to properly. I personally don't use a heat gun because it takes too long to heat the vinyl up to remove it. I use a propane torch. The difference is that the torch cooks the film without heating the body of the car and you only apply heat in spurts, not holding it in one place too long. If you cook the film with a heat gun, good luck getting it off without using an eraser wheel.
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      04-28-2010, 02:24 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by k-series View Post
About how much would that cost to get enough done to do an entire car?


Steve

Buy the material from a Sign shop laminated... they would probably charge you $800-$1200 for the material and time to laminate. Just because they want a good profit. But I'll let you in on a little secret, The material they would sell you only cost them - Vinyl: 50yd x 48" $400 and the Laminate: 50yd roll $300
Then they sell it to you, lets say about 20yds and then sell the rest at the same price they sold it to you and make about $2000 profit.
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      04-28-2010, 02:49 PM   #342
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First up, excellent effort for someone who has never fitted before.

I have to agree that the vinyl choice is poor and the areas you heated into the bumpers will probably lift soon as a calendered films will always try to return to their original state i.e flat. I wouldn't use 751 either, that is very thin and brittle.

I am surprised by some of the responses from yank fitters though, printing IJ380 and laminating with matt? What a waste of time. Don't 3M sell car wraping films over there? Look up 3M 85 series. It's a multi layered pre laminated film that we have in Europe (google focus RS500). Several other manufacturers do car wrap films now aswell including Avery and all do matt black. We done a Range Rover ourselves last week in a KPMF film
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      04-28-2010, 03:06 PM   #343
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Awesome!

$120 in supplies?? Who needs a paint!
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      04-28-2010, 03:38 PM   #344
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http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/portal...=1180597020893
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      04-28-2010, 04:12 PM   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon vital View Post
First up, excellent effort for someone who has never fitted before.

I have to agree that the vinyl choice is poor and the areas you heated into the bumpers will probably lift soon as a calendered films will always try to return to their original state i.e flat. I wouldn't use 751 either, that is very thin and brittle.

I am surprised by some of the responses from yank fitters though, printing IJ380 and laminating with matt? What a waste of time. Don't 3M sell car wraping films over there? Look up 3M 85 series. It's a multi layered pre laminated film that we have in Europe (google focus RS500). Several other manufacturers do car wrap films now aswell including Avery and all do matt black. We done a Range Rover ourselves last week in a KPMF film
The 85 Series is not available in North America ... yet... and I tried requesting it from 3M with no luck.
You don't need to print on 380 or 180, if only you want a colour not available in the 225 series. It may be a waste of time to you, but it's all we have to work with on this side of the world
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      04-28-2010, 04:30 PM   #346
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Anyone experienced with Avery UC 900 vinyl?
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      04-28-2010, 04:39 PM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirnegrey View Post
what vinyl are you using?
not so sure what brand but here is the actual product http://www.stickercity.com/48-black-...for-hoods.html
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      04-28-2010, 08:57 PM   #348
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how about avery? I'm having a hard time finding anything on avery but here what i found so far http://www.averyvinyl.com/cgi-bin/st...ng&P=A6080-O-U
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      04-28-2010, 11:33 PM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan@PYSpeed.com View Post
3m 180 V3 does not come in matte black.

I am testing a sheet of 3M 180C22 and will post pictures. Apparently, the adhesive has a waffle pattern and is visible. I will have pictures soon.
Read my earlier post. The matte Black is 3M 14613 V3
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      04-29-2010, 09:02 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by XYR03 View Post
how about avery? I'm having a hard time finding anything on avery but here what i found so far http://www.averyvinyl.com/cgi-bin/st...ng&P=A6080-O-U
As for Avery films... Well... They copied 3M's technology and called it Easy Apply instead of Control Tack or Comply. 3M sued Avery and won. Avery had to take all their product off the market and re-manufacture their whole line.
If you want to use Avery films stay with the A9 series and look for the "EZ" symbol. Do not attempt to use their A4 or A6 line on your ride, you'll be sorry. What ever you do, do not use Avery's over laminate. Use 3M's, because Avery's lam has a tendency to end up silvering. What that means is that some areas will look cloudy and others nice an glossy. I stopped using Avery for this reason.
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      04-29-2010, 09:50 AM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme_sign_guy View Post
As for Avery films... Well... They copied 3M's technology and called it Easy Apply instead of Control Tack or Comply. 3M sued Avery and won. Avery had to take all their product off the market and re-manufacture their whole line.
If you want to use Avery films stay with the A9 series and look for the "EZ" symbol. Do not attempt to use their A4 or A6 line on your ride, you'll be sorry. What ever you do, do not use Avery's over laminate. Use 3M's, because Avery's lam has a tendency to end up silvering. What that means is that some areas will look cloudy and others nice an glossy. I stopped using Avery for this reason.
Interesting...seems like 3M is the way to go if you want to go right...but its very pricy. I wonder if the series 85 in europe cost the same as the ij380 v3 that we've been talking about. what would you second choice be if you didn't have to use 3m?
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      04-29-2010, 09:57 AM   #352
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Avery

3M sued them because Avery was far better with their new product. 3M was still V1 and it all had that ugly waffle pattern and the 3M lam would feel like rice paper after 6 months.. I wouldn't use 3M until they came out with the V3 and it had been tested. Avery wasn't off the market very long though. I had no trouble getting it even when everyone was saying it was not going to be available. I have not had any silver issues with their lam except for it tends to shrink more than the vinyl over time. The silvering could be due to the type of ink or not letting it outgas long enough before laminating. I like using Oracal 290 lam on Avery and 3M. It is thinner, has a better gloss and weathers better but it is the most expensive.

Last edited by ahyesiam; 04-29-2010 at 11:31 AM.
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