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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > E90 wins again! vs. Lexus IS350, G35, Acura TL, Cadillac CTS, Audi 3.2 (scans inside)



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      08-30-2005, 05:04 PM   #67
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Well put.
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      08-30-2005, 05:16 PM   #68
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anyone know anything to do? i cant figuer it out and my home computer has blown up! hahaah

anyway, i am wanting to leave work, but i want to take this reading home with me...

it seems they were scanned improperly maybe
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      08-30-2005, 05:27 PM   #69
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IS300 is too derivative

Its seems like Toyota (aka Lexus) is trying too hard to mimic BMW, even a good copy is never as good as an original. At least Acura is adding something different to the segment with the TL. I see the IS350 as the Kobe Bryant of the sports sedan segment, very good indeed, but not Jordan.
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      08-30-2005, 05:35 PM   #70
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At least one thing is clear. At a stop sign, when a IS350 pulls next to it, new 330i won't have a chance when the light turns green. Well, maybe 330i has slight advange in handling when pushed hard, but it means almost nothing in real world unless you take it to the track.

306hp, 5.1 sec and 13.7 sec @ 104mph is truly impressive numbers regardless whether you like new IS or not. And the IS is freaking automatic!? That means anyone with right leg long enough to push the pedal (even a 70 years old granny) can and will spank the 330i 6 speed no matter what (don't tell me you can shift much better than the C&D editors).

With some aftermarket modification (I'm sure there will be a lot in near future), IS350 will be totally untouchable by 330i. With little upgrade, it can even run with the current M3.

I'm still debating between 330i and IS350. I can't wait to test drive IS350 to see if it's the real thing.

I know how well 330i handles (had 2002 330i sport) and its overall "balance" makes it so special. But it's a new market now where the $30K family sedan Toyota Avalon auto with 280hp (6.0 sec to 60mph and 14.6 sec 99mph per recent C&D test) can run with or even beat 330i in straight line.

Last edited by luxman999; 08-30-2005 at 07:19 PM.
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      08-30-2005, 05:36 PM   #71
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nevermind guys....i just printed it off 11x17 paper! hahaha
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      08-30-2005, 06:08 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luxman999
At least one thing is clear. At a stop sign, when a IS350 pulls next to it, new 330i won't have a chance when the light turns green. Well, maybe 330i has slight advange in handling when pushed hard, but it means almost nothing in real world unless you take it to the track.

330i won't have a chance against 306hp, 5.1 sec and 13.7 sec @ 104mph in the real world street encounter with IS350. And the IS is freaking automatic!? That means anyone with right leg long enough to push the pedal (even a 70 years old granny) can and will spank the 330i 6 speed no matter what (don't tell me you can shift much better than the C&D editors).

With some aftermarket modification (I'm sure there will be a lot in near future), IS350 will be totally untouchable by 330i. With little upgrade, it can even run with the current M3.

I'm still debating between 330i and IS350. I can't wait to test drive IS350 to see if it's the real thing.

I know how well 330i handles (had 2002 330i sport) and its overall "balance" makes it so special. But it's a new market now where the $30K family sedan Toyota Avalon auto with 280hp (6.0 sec to 60mph and 14.6 sec 99mph per recent C&D test) can run with or even beat 330i in straight line.
Stop light to stop light running is a very limited form of "real world" driving and is largely useless in determing the true performance envelope of a car. The real world also consists of relatively empty stretches of open road with twists and turns (the 330i's element) that require a vehicle's chasis and brakes to clear their throats. What will any of the vehicles you mention do with a 330i on its tail when the time comes to turn? There're turns in the real world I presume?
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      08-30-2005, 06:55 PM   #73
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I have a hard time believing that the Lexus actually did 0-60 in 5.1 secs. In this comparison, it shows the Acura even having a better time than the BMW (doubtful). I think that their entire test was flawed, except for the outcome.

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      08-30-2005, 06:57 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luxman999
C&D should include "Initial Quality" category in the comparison test. If so, BMW 330i should gotten 0 for their list of problems and it should been out of the first place. For a over $40K brand new, these problems are totally unforgivable! No excuse and no 'but-the-BMW-still-handles-best' BS crap.

Let's face it. For average car buyers, the initial and long-term quality factor is one of the most important factor in deciding a car.

How 330i still managed to win first despite all the problems? C&D editors are full of crap and I'm sure they picked 330i as first place even before the test began. They probably still gave 330i first place even if it caught on fire...

Their recent comparison test between 400hp Pontiac GTO vs. 300hp Mustang revealed to the entire world how stupid their rating system is. Despite GTO won over Mustang in every performance and most non-performance category, they still gave Mustang 25 perfect score for "Got-A-Have-It" factor while giving GTO only 18. The final score of 211 vs. 210 gave 1st plae to Mustang. Reason? Well, they already picked the Mustang in their Top 10 Cars of Year, so they HAD TO pick it over GTO. It was comparison test between two full-blooded sport cars and Mustang still won after losing all performance category.....Never seen so much BS.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=8908

IS350's 5.1 sec vs. 330i's 6.0 sec is night-and-day difference. I knew IS350 would be fast but not this fast! Its 13.7sec 104mph puts it in the real sport car category.

To me, this C&D test means absolutely nothing. If you guys want to blag about 330i's win by 1 point, that's pretty sad.

IS350's 306 hp is only 4% less than the mighty Supra TT's 320 hp without using any turbo or supercharger! With Luxus' proven reliability, that is really something. And its 5.1 sec is equal or even better than Supra TT with auto. Amazing.

I'm not too crazy about IS's new style, but I'm not too crazy about 330i new styling either. If IS handles even 90% close to the BMW, it will be my next car for sure.
The handling isn't 90% close and that's the problem and the point the C&D authors were trying to make. If performance driving consisted of just stomping on the gas then slamming on the brakes from the stop light to stop light, then hands down the Lexus is number 1.
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      08-30-2005, 07:43 PM   #75
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IMPORTANT UPDATE:

Car & Driver's statistics for the IS350 are INCORRECT. They made a very bad mistake and added on a full second to both the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times! Road & Track tested the IS350 0-60 at 6.0 seconds and the 1/4 mile at 14.5 seconds. This means that the correct Car & Driver stats should be 0-60 in 6.1 NOT 5.1 seconds and the 1/4 mile time is 14.7 NOT 13.7 seconds.

Now it makes sense.
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      08-30-2005, 07:58 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA330i
is350 0-60 in 5.1? i call
well it does pack a jaw-droppin' 300hp tho. so..hmm..donno.

im kind of mad/jealous that is350 is faster than the e90, but nevertheless, the fun factor(handling) is much more superior in an e90 than the is350.
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      08-30-2005, 08:05 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
IMPORTANT UPDATE:

Car & Driver's statistics for the IS350 are INCORRECT. They made a very bad mistake and added on a full second to both the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times! Road & Track tested the IS350 0-60 at 6.0 seconds and the 1/4 mile at 14.5 seconds. This means that the correct Car & Driver stats should be 0-60 in 6.1 NOT 5.1 seconds and the 1/4 mile time is 14.7 NOT 13.7 seconds.

Now it makes sense.
I just got my Road&Track in the mail today....If that's the case....
the IS350 is only .1 second faster than the 330i
with a 306bhp@6400rpm --- 277lb-ft@4800rpm?
Something is not right here!
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      08-30-2005, 08:13 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
IMPORTANT UPDATE:

Car & Driver's statistics for the IS350 are INCORRECT. They made a very bad mistake and added on a full second to both the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times! Road & Track tested the IS350 0-60 at 6.0 seconds and the 1/4 mile at 14.5 seconds. This means that the correct Car & Driver stats should be 0-60 in 6.1 NOT 5.1 seconds and the 1/4 mile time is 14.7 NOT 13.7 seconds.

Now it makes sense.
Nikki are you serious? How'd you find out about this? Please share. Thx.
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      08-30-2005, 08:26 PM   #79
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Based on the much different numbers that R&T got.
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      08-30-2005, 08:28 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y
I just got my Road&Track in the mail today....If that's the case....
the IS350 is only .1 second faster than the 330i
with a 306bhp@6400rpm --- 277lb-ft@4800rpm?
Something is not right here!
Nope...everything is right on the money.
BMW still kicks ass regardless of an extra 51 hp in the Lexus!

And C&D's number is just plain WRONG.
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      08-30-2005, 08:29 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
Based on the much different numbers that R&T got.
Nikki could you point out where you saw R&T tested the IS350 at 6.1 seconds 0-60?

Edmunds tested the IS350 at 6.1 0-60 also. If what you say is true, how can C&D get 5.1 when two other tests got 6.1. See this link for the Edmunds review and results.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...7/pageId=64968
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      08-30-2005, 08:32 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by res_ipsa
Nikki could you point out where you saw R&T tested the IS350 at 6.1 seconds 0-60?

Edmunds tested the IS350 at 6.1 0-60 also. If what you say is true, how can C&D get 5.1 when two other tests got 6.1. See this link for the Edmunds review and results.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...7/pageId=64968
It's in the latest issue.
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      08-30-2005, 08:33 PM   #83
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So Car & Driver got 5.1 seconds for 0-60 for the IS350

Road and Track and Edmunds both got 6.1 seconds. Majority wins

Anyways, somethings definitely fishy with these #'s. A full second is a lifetime in 0-60.
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      08-30-2005, 09:06 PM   #84
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Lexus tested the IS350 at 5.6 0-60.

I think Motortrend has it at 5.8...........

Who do you trust?
I know Autoweek will come out with a different number.......
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      08-30-2005, 09:26 PM   #85
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The thing worries me the most is the all the electronics added to these new cars. Especially BMW because they are completely obessed with electronics now, idrive, active steering, smg, which is very cool and nifty when new. Who knows how many would require maintaince or repair in a 10 year period. Just look at how many error light lite up during test drive. There are so many things that can go wrong and being an European car I cant even fathom the cost of repair. This is the general trend throuoghout the industry tho.
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      08-30-2005, 10:14 PM   #86
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Strikes me as a win for Lexus. Where were they in this class, say 2-3 years ago? Figuring the majority of drivers - well, US drivers anyway - opt for the automatic, and (in my obviously biased opinion) are less concerned with the very initimate driving experience that is the raison d'Ítre of Bimmerness, the Lexus boys may indeed eat into 3er market share. Lexus is known for high-build quality, reliability, and solidly holding its resale value - for the luxo segment of the market it will have strong appeal.

Presumably if IS350 does start nibbling at BMW's base, the Bavarians will respond appropriately. The E90 chassis is its strength and BMW knows how to build a great motor, so they certainly can do it if they have the will to dominate rather than tightly compete. But can they do it at the right price point? Toyota Tsusho is a huge company - anyone have comparisons of it to the Quandts?

For now, the BMW image of sportiness and being a driver's car remains its cachet - and they invented the sports sedan segment dating back to the 2002. The acquisition of Sauber and the continuation of a seemingly purposeful participation in F1 helps the image. The klingons at C&D apparently still respect that image as witnessed by their choice of a manual transmission for the test car. Wonder what the scoring would have been had they used an automatic 330i?

But in just ten years the 3 series has gone from quick and nimble to a wee bit bloated and a little too drive-by-wire-ish. Granted BMW has done it pretty damn well, but still, another 20-30 ponies and another 20 foot-pounds would not have encroached on modern M3 territory, though it might mean bigger brakes. (I'd give up some of the electro-goodies for stronger performance.) Nonethelss 'Yota still has some homework to do in the car-as-extension-of-driver department and it'll take 'em another cycle or two. Here BMW has paid their dues for many many years and C&D got that part very very right. It will remain an interesting battle to watch. The fact that it is a battle at all should be the telling point for Munich.
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      08-30-2005, 11:40 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luxman999
At least one thing is clear. At a stop sign, when a IS350 pulls next to it, new 330i won't have a chance when the light turns green. Well, maybe 330i has slight advange in handling when pushed hard, but it means almost nothing in real world unless you take it to the track.

306hp, 5.1 sec and 13.7 sec @ 104mph is truly impressive numbers regardless whether you like new IS or not. And the IS is freaking automatic!? That means anyone with right leg long enough to push the pedal (even a 70 years old granny) can and will spank the 330i 6 speed no matter what (don't tell me you can shift much better than the C&D editors).

With some aftermarket modification (I'm sure there will be a lot in near future), IS350 will be totally untouchable by 330i. With little upgrade, it can even run with the current M3.

I'm still debating between 330i and IS350. I can't wait to test drive IS350 to see if it's the real thing.

I know how well 330i handles (had 2002 330i sport) and its overall "balance" makes it so special. But it's a new market now where the $30K family sedan Toyota Avalon auto with 280hp (6.0 sec to 60mph and 14.6 sec 99mph per recent C&D test) can run with or even beat 330i in straight line.

You know I could really give a s**t about CD's numbers. What it boils down to is what you look for in a car...I don't want a Toyota...I want a BMW...bottom line. This forum is for BMW enthusiasts not for the Land of the Rising Sun. I could not be happier with my car and there is nothing short of an M6 or a Ferrari Modena that I would get if I had the money....give me 20 grand more to spend and I'd still buy a 330.
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      08-31-2005, 01:09 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanthomas
Its seems like Toyota (aka Lexus) is trying too hard to mimic BMW, even a good copy is never as good as an original. At least Acura is adding something different to the segment with the TL. I see the IS350 as the Kobe Bryant of the sports sedan segment, very good indeed, but not Jordan.
That was well put!!!!!......Nothing like the best
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