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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > New & Preowned BMW Ordering / Pricing / Tracking Information Forum (including European Delivery) > Manuals, Invoice/MSRP Pricing, Buying Guides, Bulletins, etc. > How can I talk down an outrageous price on a CPO?



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      04-29-2010, 12:34 PM   #1
dcorn
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How can I talk down an outrageous price on a CPO?

I'm looking at '07 E90's locally and I'm having a hard time finding them with decent prices. Got one in particular at VOB BMW that's an '07 with 26k miles, manual, ZSP, ZPP, heated seats and comfort access and they want $32.5k. I looked up the NADA value and the suggested retail is around $28k. I've sort of tried this with another dealer through emails and the guy was telling me that was the 'market value' on these cars and that he had the lowest prices on the east coast...

How do I go about telling the dealership their price is wayyy too high?

http://vobbmw.com/bmw-pre-owned-inve...07VF50442.aspx
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      04-29-2010, 12:39 PM   #2
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Make sure you do all your research and take all your information with you. You have the internet at your fingertips, use it to your advantage.
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      04-29-2010, 03:07 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by SpmnE9zero View Post
Make sure you do all your research and take all your information with you. You have the internet at your fingertips, use it to your advantage.
Oh, believe me I have. I just know that some of these used car salesman think they know so much more than the customer when usually it's the complete opposite. I guess taking in paperwork from NADA and KBB will show them real data as to what the car is worth. I think something around $28k is closer to what the car is worth, but I'll report back with their response.
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      04-29-2010, 05:55 PM   #4
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You offer them 28k and then walk away...

If they are keen to make sales, they will phone you back and talk business. Can't be any different over there than here in Oz, surely. You guys are lucky - I'd love to be able to pay 40k for that car.... here you're looking at $70-80k for an 07'.
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      04-29-2010, 08:40 PM   #5
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That price is way too high. Also, disregard NADA, KBB, Edmunds values because they're completely inaccurate. Get a temporary subscription to Galves wholesale pricing guide instead. That's what dealers use.

As a comparison, on 31 Dec 09 I bought a CPO'd Jet Black/Terra 2007 335i Sedan with 6-speed manual, ZSP-Sport Package (with Oil Cooler), ZPP-Premium Package, ZCW-Cold Weather Package, Comfort Access, and 27,200 miles. I paid just under $27,800* + tax, tag, title and doc fees. I also got 0.9% financing from BMW for 48 months (the sale price was actually $29k, but BMW made my first two payments).

I had no trade-in, so the dealer didn't play a shell game with the sale price.

The car's original 2007 invoice cost was $42k and the original MSRP was $45k.

The suggested CPO price was $31,995.

The car’s in-service date was 22 Nov 06, so I had 11 months of free maintenance and 35 months of warranty remaining.

The GALVES TRADE-IN VALUE was $22,800 and the GALVES MARKET READY VALUE was $24,250 on the E90 I bought. I estimated the value of the CPO at $2k, so the dealer probably had about $25k-$26k into the car.

That was 4 months ago and 2007's have continued depreciating since then...

By the way, I bought the car at BMW of the Main Line, just outside Philadelphia, PA.
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      04-29-2010, 09:20 PM   #6
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Very interesting. Thanks for the information.

But yeah, I'm gonna head up to the dealership tomorrow and see what I can work out.
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      04-30-2010, 02:15 PM   #7
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By the way, it only took me 3 weeks to find the E90 I was looking for (at a fair price), so be patient. I bought at the end of the 4th quarter and year, so I had 3 different BMW dealers vying for my business (my choice was between an '06 330i, an '07 328i, and the '07 335i that I purchased).

You’re looking to buy at the end of the month, so you may be in a similar bargaining position.

Good luck!
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      04-30-2010, 04:13 PM   #8
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Well the car was very clean and drove great, just like it should. The lowest they'd come on the price was $30,800 which I had to fight for. The salesman keeps saying how valuable the CPO is and whatever else. Didn't care what I said about NADA, KBB, or any market pricing.

I'll just keep looking and hopefully he'll contact me, but somehow I doubt they're gonna go under $30k.
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      05-23-2010, 02:24 AM   #9
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how do you present galves price to them and get them to lower their price? i tried to do so and they kept saying their price is the lowest already... which is true. it could be that my area, 335i's are priced way higher than the national avg...
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      06-02-2010, 06:52 AM   #10
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Yeah, I didn't end up buying through the BMW dealer. Found another car with the same low miles and more options in the color combo I wanted for $28,800 and they accepted my offer of $28k. Only thing I didn't get was the CPO, but the car was inspected by a local BMW dealer.

Dealerships are just tough to deal with and sometimes they are just too stubborn to give in. There are a million different places to get prices out there and I think most places just say they are the cheapest and that's it. I dealt with one place that repeatedly told me they were the cheapest around, even though I found numerous cars for lower prices, and they wouldn't believe me.
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      06-05-2010, 06:57 PM   #11
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sometimes its just funny how dealers think the customers are all idiots. i remember i was shopping around for a 370z at one time and I was offered 35K (for the 40th anniversary) at another dealership and my local dealer told me this car had great discounts (long story behind it) and he presented me with 38K. i just luled and told him my current offer and he went to the back, checked his computer, and blatantly lied to me telling me that dealer doesnt have one, when i know it did.
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      06-05-2010, 11:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
Yeah, I didn't end up buying through the BMW dealer. Found another car with the same low miles and more options in the color combo I wanted for $28,800 and they accepted my offer of $28k. Only thing I didn't get was the CPO, but the car was inspected by a local BMW dealer.

Dealerships are just tough to deal with and sometimes they are just too stubborn to give in. There are a million different places to get prices out there and I think most places just say they are the cheapest and that's it. I dealt with one place that repeatedly told me they were the cheapest around, even though I found numerous cars for lower prices, and they wouldn't believe me.
Simply put, let this serve as a lesson to other would-be buyers. There will always be another car out there. Always be prepared to walk if you cannot get your price.
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      06-16-2010, 08:10 PM   #13
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Hey I'm fairly new but I figured I'd throw a rock in the pond on the issue. I'm a Client Advisor here in NC and I think it's a tough balance to find a fair deal for both sides. I have never heard of "Galves" here on the east cost but I do know we typically use Manheim for used car pricing as it gives us the last 30 days of wholesale pricing. I typically use Edmunds TMV(usually lowest), KBB(usually crazy high) and NADA(what the banks like) and that helps me to be fair. One thing I would be cautious of is trying to determine how much profit you'll "allow" a dealer to have. The thought process that they can be "stubborn" is more like they are watching their return on investment. As a CA I typically ask the question "If I asked you to invest XXXX amount of dollars, how much would you want guaranteed in return". Most customers are pretty reasonable at that point, you would probally not take 500 or 1000 dollar return on a 30 day investment of 25,000 which you may or may not turn in 30 days either. Stable value mutual funds average 5 or 6%, car business is risky business. Remember your CA usually has three interest if he's good, helping you get a car that in your budget and right for you, helping himself(he may make 20% or 25% of the profit if he's lucky) and helping the dealership(not giving away cars for no reason). There are two types of people regarding discount the type that has a budget and if he requires a substantial discount(thousands and thousands) then as a CA you've done wrong to put him on the car he's on, or the type that wants to win that wants to walk away feeling he's won and you walk away asking why you even bothered. I sometimes laugh at the thought of walking into random places and asking questions like "Whats your best price" or "What's the lowest you'll take". I want to see a hiring manager ask someone that one day and see their reaction, not really that'd be rude.
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      12-28-2012, 12:36 AM   #14
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Hey I'm fairly new but I figured I'd throw a rock in the pond on the issue. I'm a Client Advisor here in NC and I think it's a tough balance to find a fair deal for both sides. I have never heard of "Galves" here on the east cost but I do know we typically use Manheim for used car pricing as it gives us the last 30 days of wholesale pricing. I typically use Edmunds TMV(usually lowest), KBB(usually crazy high) and NADA(what the banks like) and that helps me to be fair. One thing I would be cautious of is trying to determine how much profit you'll "allow" a dealer to have. The thought process that they can be "stubborn" is more like they are watching their return on investment. As a CA I typically ask the question "If I asked you to invest XXXX amount of dollars, how much would you want guaranteed in return". Most customers are pretty reasonable at that point, you would probally not take 500 or 1000 dollar return on a 30 day investment of 25,000 which you may or may not turn in 30 days either. Stable value mutual funds average 5 or 6%, car business is risky business. Remember your CA usually has three interest if he's good, helping you get a car that in your budget and right for you, helping himself(he may make 20% or 25% of the profit if he's lucky) and helping the dealership(not giving away cars for no reason). There are two types of people regarding discount the type that has a budget and if he requires a substantial discount(thousands and thousands) then as a CA you've done wrong to put him on the car he's on, or the type that wants to win that wants to walk away feeling he's won and you walk away asking why you even bothered. I sometimes laugh at the thought of walking into random places and asking questions like "Whats your best price" or "What's the lowest you'll take". I want to see a hiring manager ask someone that one day and see their reaction, not really that'd be rude.
I don't mean to resurrect an old thread, but I appreciate the insight. I am the guy who want's to win. I do not want to overpay for a car. I want the dealership to keep his lights on, but I don't want him paving the parking lot in gold because I was a poor negotiator. I feel like the dealers around me are used to wealthy old people who would rather pay MSRP than get a decent deal. Maybe they can afford it and don't care, but in order for the dealer to sell a car to me, he has to earn it.

I also feel that dealers in general are liars. They tend to start out with an asking price that is above market value and then you have to fight just to get to market value. Then they low ball you on your trade and you have to fight to get to market value. I also think they lie about "how much they have in the car".

I get it, sometimes a deal gets to the point where it is no longer worth it to sell the car and so the dealer says no, at the same time there are plenty of other cars on other dealers lots depreciating away, so the same goes for the buyer and so you walk away. In this transaction, however, I feel that the buyer should have more power than the dealer tends to allow. The reason being is that most of us buy a car once every 3-5 years while they sell 20 cars a week.

So, how do you recommend we get the best deal, without asking "what is your best price?" My thought is that we do our homework, find out the actual market values of the car you want and your trade, get financing before you walk in and say, "Here is my trade, here is $30,000, I want this car." Don't haggle, stick to your guns and walk away if they say no. That way you know if they really do have too much in the car, or your trade really isn't worth that much, or they are just more interested in waiting for a moron who will over pay.

What do you think?
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