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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Bmw 335i Coupe Twin Turbo Upgrade



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      12-01-2006, 06:52 PM   #23
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If money is no matter then go ahead and pay some brave soul. arent there a boatload of bmw tuners making loads of power? AA, somewhere there is a Supra tuner who would love to stand on shiv's shoulders. Since it seems you paid for your "level 2 supercharger" (wtf is that nehow) the "tuner" will hold ur car hostage for a year (while you make payments) and if it works i doubt you will get a better value than a XEDE. if money is no matter than honestly you dont belong on an internet forum IMO. this is making me want to pee. laters
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      12-01-2006, 08:30 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r
why upgrade something that hasnt become a bottleneck yet? Shiv said he limited PSI because of knock, and octane limits... not because the turbos were too small...
To be fair to bigger turbos, they will offer less backpressure at higher engine speeds/loads which will, all things equal, make the engine less prone to knock which means they can run more advance and make more power. Also, by virtue of the backpressure reduction, the engine will enjoy improved volumetric efficiency and make more power at the same boost level. The downside, of course, is soggier boost response. And cost and labor and warranty.

-shiv
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      12-01-2006, 08:58 PM   #25
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I say the OP should probably not take delivery on the 335i, and wait for the $60k '08 M3 (w/ 415+HP stock) or an M6; then he can spend another $10k-$15k for a Supercharger or TT setup, and anything else he can think of, to make a SuperMonster M3 making some insane amount of HP, like 650-700HP. Or, even better yet...has anyone ever seen that online video of the guy (here in Miami, I think) who just spent A LOT of $$ to tune his new Ford GT; he added a TT and a bunch of other major mods, and that thing now makes ~ 1,000HP? That crazy SOB actually runs around street racing other heavily modded cars AND motorcycles!!! Anyways, the guy is nuts and loaded...$$ was defintely no object.

But, I guess the OP he must be thinking about $$ afterall, since he's getting a $45k-$50k 335i and wanting to add bigger turbos...maybe he feels he would be getting the most bang for his buck with the 335i and modding that as opposed to another M3.

Whatever he does with his 335i, I just hope I don't see him on the FL Turnpike or I95...I don't think I'd be interested in racing him with my "wimpy" Xede-equipped 335i.
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      12-01-2006, 09:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBMW69
When do you think you would be able to upgrade the turbos on the 335i. Money is no matter. I just want to upgrade the turbos and have a lot of power.

If money is not an issue..why didnt u buy a very fast car from the start ? like a 997TT or SL65 AMG.

Im sure if some tuner told u it was $100k to upgrade the turbo's, piping software..u would not have the money...SO AT THE END OF THE DAY MONEY IS AN ISSUE!!!

TECHNIK is working on a single turbo conversion...I would just wait for that.
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      12-02-2006, 12:09 AM   #27
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shiv thanks for your reply..do you know when the upgraded turbos will come out and how much power it will produce and how much it will cost?

to everyone else... money is no object because Im buying a 45,000 car... not a 100,000 car
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      12-02-2006, 12:23 AM   #28
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Shiv, after my four year warranty is up I would like to do a 500hp kit. Until then I will be doing the stage 1 kit in january after returning from vacation (or whenever the exhaust goes into production). Will you be doing a stage 2 or 3 so that as time goes on I can use the items previously purchased in conjuntion with future kits?

Simple question that I'm sure others have thought about. I down for HUGE HP after warranty.
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      12-02-2006, 02:26 AM   #29
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I wish people wouldn't criticize someone for asking a question. The guy has his mind on doing a specific thing and everyone just says "why". That isn't helpful. As far as going with upgraded turbos, you can either wait for a kit to comeout which I feel will be a LONG way off or have it done by a fabricator/tuner as a one-off system. Why not inquire with someone that actually does that kind of work instead of asking people on forums. Always go to the source for questions concerning things like this. You can kinda estimate costs by looking at material costs and the amount of labor that will be needed (my specialty, sort of). If you are going to stay with a bi-turbo setup, you're only going to increase the turbos to a couple sizes bigger, say dual GT25's or something. Each one costs about a grand. So that's $2000 so far. Then manifolds will have to be made or the factory ones cut from the stock turbos and have a flange welded on to connect to the new turbos. Add probably $1600 for new tubular manifolds or $400-$500 to cut and weld flanges on to stock pieces. That's $3600 or $2500. Next comes a custom front mount intercooler and piping. Say $1200 for a Spearco with custom aluminum pipes. $4800 or $3700 now. Downpipes have to be made to connect to the exhaust sytem. Could probably make something for about $800. $5600 or $4500 currently. That's it for hardware so now you'ld have Shiv road tune it for you with an Xede installed ($1300 plus tuning fee ($500 Shiv?). So that's basically all the costs. Total is about $6300 to $7400. Probably add 10% to that to cover any variances in pricing and more if you want a blow off valve and other extras like v-band connections, etc. Just buy parts when they're good deals and find someone you trust to do the work (ie lots of other happy customers). All this assumes the stock fuel system can handle your power potential. Injector upgrades and a fuel pump can get kinda spendy to add to a pretty large sum already.
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      12-02-2006, 05:51 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2guy
I wish people wouldn't criticize someone for asking a question. The guy has his mind on doing a specific thing and everyone just says "why". That isn't helpful. As far as going with upgraded turbos, you can either wait for a kit to comeout which I feel will be a LONG way off or have it done by a fabricator/tuner as a one-off system. Why not inquire with someone that actually does that kind of work instead of asking people on forums. Always go to the source for questions concerning things like this. You can kinda estimate costs by looking at material costs and the amount of labor that will be needed (my specialty, sort of). If you are going to stay with a bi-turbo setup, you're only going to increase the turbos to a couple sizes bigger, say dual GT25's or something. Each one costs about a grand. So that's $2000 so far. Then manifolds will have to be made or the factory ones cut from the stock turbos and have a flange welded on to connect to the new turbos. Add probably $1600 for new tubular manifolds or $400-$500 to cut and weld flanges on to stock pieces. That's $3600 or $2500. Next comes a custom front mount intercooler and piping. Say $1200 for a Spearco with custom aluminum pipes. $4800 or $3700 now. Downpipes have to be made to connect to the exhaust sytem. Could probably make something for about $800. $5600 or $4500 currently. That's it for hardware so now you'ld have Shiv road tune it for you with an Xede installed ($1300 plus tuning fee ($500 Shiv?). So that's basically all the costs. Total is about $6300 to $7400. Probably add 10% to that to cover any variances in pricing and more if you want a blow off valve and other extras like v-band connections, etc. Just buy parts when they're good deals and find someone you trust to do the work (ie lots of other happy customers). All this assumes the stock fuel system can handle your power potential. Injector upgrades and a fuel pump can get kinda spendy to add to a pretty large sum already.
dont forget the price of LSD and wider tires to put that power down. And im sure even if he found someone he trusts to do it (assuming they know how) they're most likley not going to do it for free. Installation is going to jack that price way up
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      12-02-2006, 08:19 AM   #31
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also you might want to think about the little things that help make it all work. The turbos and headers are made out of a heat resistant material, like said b4 new fuel delivery system, have you thought about weight reduction it sounds like a ricer idea but the less sprung and unsprung weight you have the faster/quicker you will be. what kind of gas will you be using? pump gas or race? will it be a daily driver or a show car? don't forget it you are going to add all this power add the stopping power as well. SAFeTY!!! plus the more power you are going to add you will need a new suspension that will handel it. CAuse we all know we can't help resist getting it a little sideways out of a corner. then there is cosmetic mods you'll need to do to fit some of the stuff under the hood and have plenty of air getting to and from things. If you get bigger turbos you'll need to build the bottom end to still get the off the line grunt. or you just make it a highway monster that can go really fast but only on long straight aways(not wreckomended) Just get the car first and then drive it and see what you like about the power delivery and what you don't. I congratulate you on your choice of brand, and your idea don't let the others get to you and also remember you might have to weight a while to find something better. Good Luck
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      12-02-2006, 09:29 AM   #32
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a lot of hatters everywhere, just post your answers and leave the attitude... don't respond if your negative...

anyway idk about this crap... i want to see pix of the 335i that u are building.... all i nned is xede and exhaust, it will be good for a daily driver... if anyone will try to race me, i simple give them the finger or meet them at the next light and get out of my car, 100% of the time this is when they will all really take off, hhahahhhaahhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when the one person does happen to get out, shit, beat the shit out of them and tell them not to race on the street!!!!!!!!!!!!

if they beat the shit out of u... hmmm then that sux, life is a big risk! but fun!
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      12-02-2006, 10:16 AM   #33
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as a very amateur tuner i hate that he just doesn't go do it instead of asking a question into outer space bcuz rite now NO one on e90p has an upgraded twin setup to discuss with him. so everyone lets just cut the speculation. he shoulda gone to SEMA and plain old introduced himself to several industry people (not internet people) and discussed his project needs with them because SEMA is still for serious people.

but because you did not i would strongly urge you to contact at least 2 reputable shops. get all the answers you need. and now i dont even remember what your original question was.
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      12-02-2006, 01:19 PM   #34
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Last time I checked SEMA is for industry persons only; ie. business owners. It's not a car show, it's a convention. This may have changed but I don't think so.
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      12-02-2006, 02:27 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2guy
Last time I checked SEMA is for industry persons only; ie. business owners. It's not a car show, it's a convention. This may have changed but I don't think so.
Press/Retailers/Manufacturers/Factory owners etc etc

do u even know how many different ways you could score a entrance badge?? have you even been to a SEMA show (Vegas, IAS??) bottom line where else could you go for the straight 411?
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      12-02-2006, 02:39 PM   #36
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If you add a Xede on your own, do you need some one to re-tune your car, or do you just put it in and go?
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      12-02-2006, 03:13 PM   #37
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It comes pretuned for a stock 335i for a specific fuel octane rating. If you improve other parts of your engine, you would need to have it retuned to maximize the gains from these additional parts.
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      12-02-2006, 03:23 PM   #38
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Mr.M, no i've never been to SEMA or Vegas for that matter. POINT is SEMA is not what you should tell someone to go to if they have questions. IT'S ONCE A DAMN YEAR. For all the other 51 weeks of the year you can go online and look at websites, look in a phone book, talk to guys at local performance shop, go through magazines, etc. SEMA is a limited access event and really isn't that good of a suggestion, sorry.
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      12-02-2006, 06:11 PM   #39
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If you're into racing this is the show you need to attend. Its held in orlando this coming Dec 16th.
http://www.performanceracing.com/
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      12-02-2006, 07:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2guy
I wish people wouldn't criticize someone for asking a question. The guy has his mind on doing a specific thing and everyone just says "why". That isn't helpful.
because the reason 335i's are so fast are because of their 2 small turbo's. "upgrading" the turbo's aren't gonna do anything but be an expensive mod, that voids your warranty and makes your car slower.
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      12-03-2006, 05:53 AM   #41
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Listen to what you are saying. Upgraded turbos make your car slower?! Are you nuts? It may spool slightly slower but you make it sound like there are ZERO benefits. Far from it my friend, far from it. Besides, he didn't ask what Herbz should do, he wants to know where to go to do what HE wants to do. Let HIM decide about the warranty and compromise between stock and modified. The 335i is not a "fast" car, it is a "quick" car. Some people want it to be a "fast" car. You don't and that's fine but this is his thread so...
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      12-03-2006, 07:04 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2guy
Listen to what you are saying. Upgraded turbos make your car slower?! Are you nuts? It may spool slightly slower but you make it sound like there are ZERO benefits. Far from it my friend, far from it. Besides, he didn't ask what Herbz should do, he wants to know where to go to do what HE wants to do. Let HIM decide about the warranty and compromise between stock and modified. The 335i is not a "fast" car, it is a "quick" car. Some people want it to be a "fast" car. You don't and that's fine but this is his thread so...
ok... but thing is... this is a forum, i can say whatever thehell i want! i'm just trying to give the guy some advice for petes sake!

like i said, making them bigger won't necessarily make the car faster! there are alot of ways to build more power on the existing twin turbo's bmw has already put in! as you know, the main reason the 335i is so quick, is because of the 1500-5000rpm peak torque curve. with a bigger turbo, low RPM power, which makes the 335 "quick", will be gone. you might make more up top, but who knows if it will be enough to beat the stock turbo setup?

with a bigger turbo you're always going to have to be in the upper - RPM range, constantly downshifting to get in the right gear. not really great for dailiy driving. on the other hand, with the two small turbo's you can floor it in any gear without even downshifting. you'll lose the prime factor of what makes the 335/supra great.

trust me, i have experience with turbocharged cars (WRX) and the turbo lag on that thing is unbelievable. the car doesn't MOVE till 4k rpm, at which point it begins to finally go, but it's still annoying (and again, not necessarily as fast) to drive. this is the case with most other turbo'ed cars as well.

never said there weren't other ways to make the 335i faster! just suggesting that upgrading turbo's won't be the most efficient way. LSD, lightweight flywheel, bigger intercooler, headers, uppipe, downpipe, race gas, agressive map, and short shifter are all wayyy more efficient and safe ways to make your car faster. even forging/porting/polishing pistons, connecting rods, valves, cams etc. would be better than new turbo's IMO. and by the way the OP was talking about swapping turbo's like it's as easy as in need for speed underground, maybe he should do some reasearch on the most efficient ways to make the 335i fast before going out and saying "money isnt an issue, i can do anything". if money isn't an issue, then shouldn't you make the car fast the RIGHT way?

perhaps if the OP asked some legitmate questions about turbo's, the effects of bigger turbo's, the work and maintenence involved, will two bigger turbo's fit, how the engine will react to bigger turbo's, etc. etc. maybe then i'd sit back and let him do his work. but to say "i want big turbo's big big big, who install i have unlimited money" is

if anything i'm offering some sound advice, imho.

Last edited by herbz; 12-03-2006 at 11:53 PM.
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      12-21-2006, 09:38 PM   #43
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the point he posted on here is because of people like shiv, who come on here and discuss what new things are out. this site reminds me of other forums i'm on. he has a legitimate question, and he didnt ask for all this bullsh*t!! i dont wanna read it, and i'm pretty sure he doesnt either.
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      12-21-2006, 09:53 PM   #44
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If money is not an issue then you should buy a different car. I'm sure that kits will be coming out for those who want to take the car to the next level. You should start by looking into building the bottom end to match those larger turbos. I wouldn't even know what to suggest, twin GT28R's... guess it depends on your power goals for the car. Hell, do we even know how strong the stock bottom end is yet?
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