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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Warranty Issues After Clearing Codes - Heads Up!



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      05-05-2010, 11:45 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMA335i View Post
Anyone care to guess what BMW will do (if anything) on a least return if they found out that a tune was put in but no issues arose which needed to be fixed under warranty? I mean, do you think they will fine a person just because they somehow found out a tune was used or that codes were cleared? I hope the questions I am trying to ask make sense....
Its actually a funny question as there have been many cars returned, tunes still on, then CPO'd and sold to new buyers who then find out there was a tune 'STILL INSTALLED'

I believe in the legal docs, you are not allowed to modify the leased car. As like most people with tunes, you play the gauntlet. Get caught and something will happen, get away, all is well. (Applys to warranty as well)

I Had a leased car, tuned installed but i knew i was going to buy it out anyways, so didn't care. I take my fully modified car in to the dealership. If it's tune related, so be it and if i'm billed, oh well. With that in mind, my dealership has been very good to me. Unless it's obviously tune related, they cover what they can under warranty.
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      05-06-2010, 02:05 AM   #24
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Overboost codes are the number 1 indicator of tampering. My tech said overboost codes are normal but if you have over a certain amount its a red flag for tampering. He also stated that as soon as his equipment connects to your car, all codes and errors get sent to "Germany" he said he has no control over that. Oh and he said the people who do a hack job on the ECU get caught everytime.
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      05-06-2010, 05:55 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fruition3000 View Post
Overboost codes are the number 1 indicator of tampering. My tech said overboost codes are normal but if you have over a certain amount its a red flag for tampering. He also stated that as soon as his equipment connects to your car, all codes and errors get sent to "Germany" he said he has no control over that. Oh and he said the people who do a hack job on the ECU get caught everytime.
unless something has changed in the last few months your tech is not being completely honest. There are a couple of ways to hook the car up. One gets sent, one doesn't. I would probably say the same thing if I were him. Why should he risk his job to defend your tune? I'm sure if a tech covered up evidence of a tune in order to perform warranty work and it was discovered it would go very badly for the tech. Easiest to say it's not up to them.
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      05-06-2010, 08:28 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by fruition3000 View Post
Overboost codes are the number 1 indicator of tampering. My tech said overboost codes are normal but if you have over a certain amount its a red flag for tampering. He also stated that as soon as his equipment connects to your car, all codes and errors get sent to "Germany" he said he has no control over that. Oh and he said the people who do a hack job on the ECU get caught everytime.
If this is true than without physical proof you can easily win against them if they say a tune has been on the car. I'm certain any good lawyer can proof that computers are not 100% reliable, so tuner codes etc... could be cause by an ECU error.
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      05-06-2010, 09:14 AM   #27
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???

I always heard that the 335 ecu will add more boost at higher altitudes. I recall someone saying that at 5,000 feet the car will produce 3psi more than at sea level. So lets say you remove your tune and the only thing they find is an overboost code(s) can't you just tell them you took a trip into the mountains?

Just a thought!
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      05-06-2010, 10:52 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus View Post
unless something has changed in the last few months your tech is not being completely honest. There are a couple of ways to hook the car up. One gets sent, one doesn't. I would probably say the same thing if I were him. Why should he risk his job to defend your tune? I'm sure if a tech covered up evidence of a tune in order to perform warranty work and it was discovered it would go very badly for the tech. Easiest to say it's not up to them.
a lot has changed in the last 90 days --

there is no more GT1 style programming done -- start test plan -- complete test plan -- perform programming/encoding -- clear adaptation values -- quick clear codes and exit programming without saving or printing log.... (old way)

now every session is saved and each programming station (to work properly) will have to transfer this data to the ISIS server if not connected to the network during programming -- or you wont be able to start a new session -- this would not apply if the repairs are not warranty issues..

and this is not a "search" for modded cars..

it helps BMW identify proper repair procedures (did the tech do his job right)
it provide information on software issues (computer related) vs hardware (mechanical parts)

as the cars become more complex and the problems that follow, it does "sort of" help the tech reduce repair times and diagnosis, which in turn helps shop productivitiy.

i think people who tune their cars are caught in the middle of BMW trying to cut their costs on repairs, and then feel like it "all" against them.. not so -- but if your caught in the battle, its only cuz you stepped into their arena.. $$$
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      05-06-2010, 10:57 AM   #29
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Having and using a code reader/BT tool will not void the warranty.
You can easily say that you replaced the brakes or changed the oil and cleared the codes while you were at it.
This does not imply that anything has been tampered with.
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      05-06-2010, 11:05 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Having and using a code reader/BT tool will not void the warranty.
You can easily say that you replaced the brakes or changed the oil and cleared the codes while you were at it.
This does not imply that anything has been tampered with.
2nd...but deffinitely raises eye brows and a closer look by the regional BMW techs.... Which in turn can cause more stress to the owner. I have 2,500 miles left on my warranty so at this point.... Meh
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      05-06-2010, 02:18 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by maxnix View Post
This might be the most valuable thread in this Forum.
I would second that.

My plans to buy a Procede are now on the backburner until I see how this pans out - I would like to see a response from Shiv.

This thread should absolutely be stickied so that more people are made aware of the fact that their supposedly-safe code-clearing tool isn't actually doing jack.
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      05-06-2010, 02:26 PM   #32
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I am just about to buy a JB3 with a BT tool. I guess the BT tool won't really do anything for me then? If this is true this really puts a damper on my plans.
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      05-06-2010, 02:33 PM   #33
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oh, and btw:

some dealers (who have sorted out the network issues) can actually ask the engineers to run the session on the car remotely.. this too is not to "detect" tuned cars, but to offer a better way to resolve extremely complex diagnostic issues that would require a factory (NA or AG) engineer to make a personal visit to the dealer. this eliminates plane tickets and travel expenses for the company, which in these dire financial times is a plus for them.

plus it cuts costs on shipping control units in for testing, and shortens the repair timeline.
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      05-06-2010, 03:16 PM   #34
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Ok, listen up. This is probably what happened.

If the OP cleared ALL the thrown codes, then that in itself is a huge tip off. Every time I scan my car, there is a harmless code somewhere that shows up. I do not clear those. Only if I see the tuner code (which I have never seen) do I clear.

I would imagine that as a service tech/manager and you run scans on these cars each day and one comes in with NO CODES WHATSOEVER, it is a tip off that they have been cleared, especially if the car has a few years on it.

Only clear tuner codes. Nothing else.
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      05-06-2010, 03:18 PM   #35
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Quote:
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Ok, listen up. This is probably what happened.

If the OP cleared ALL the thrown codes, then that in itself is a huge tip off. Every time I scan my car, there is a harmless code somewhere that shows up. I do not clear those. Only if I see the tuner code (which I have never seen) do I clear.

I would imagine that as a service tech/manager and you run scans on these cars each day and one comes in with NO CODES WHATSOEVER, it is a tip off that they have been cleared, especially if the car has a few years on it.

Only clear tuner codes. Nothing else.

I've only ever thrown tuner codes.

The only 2 codes i've thrown have been 2D18's on 2 seperate occasions.

I cleared the shadow and the visible faults.
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      05-06-2010, 03:32 PM   #36
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Can someone explain where the shadow faults are when using the BT?
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      05-06-2010, 03:54 PM   #37
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Can someone explain where the shadow faults are when using the BT?
Under the Shadow Faults category.
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      05-06-2010, 04:20 PM   #38
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2nd...but deffinitely raises eye brows and a closer look by the regional BMW techs.... Which in turn can cause more stress to the owner. I have 2,500 miles left on my warranty so at this point.... Meh
I originally thought this too but as it gets closer I'm starting to rethink caus I don't want my hpfp to give out and them void the warranty on that...
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      05-06-2010, 04:32 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by shifterboy45 View Post
this would not apply if the repairs are not warranty issues..
I'm confused. does this mean there is a way to hook it up without sending it to BMW as long as it is not a warranty issue?

Also are you aware of any "counter" inside the ECU which reads access/write attempts?
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      05-06-2010, 04:53 PM   #40
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I think this is getting rediculous... Has anyone only had their engine and transmission warranties voided with the rest intact? (although most failures are HPFP related)

and on a different note: since the codes are stored on the Key, and that's the first thing to be scanned, is it necessary that a CA key is put in the fob to "update" it on the code satus of the car or is that a non issue?
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      05-06-2010, 05:31 PM   #41
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What I don't understand is if you are using a piggyback tuner like JB3 and not a re-flash. How would the dealership know you had one if you remove all the hardware and reset any codes shadow/visable codes? Is it true that you will only throw tuner codes if you run the JB3 on map 7 or higher?
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      05-06-2010, 07:45 PM   #42
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Bump.

I really want to hear Terry and Shiv's input.
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      05-06-2010, 07:49 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeenon53 View Post
What I don't understand is if you are using a piggyback tuner like JB3 and not a re-flash. How would the dealership know you had one if you remove all the hardware and reset any codes shadow/visable codes? Is it true that you will only throw tuner codes if you run the JB3 on map 7 or higher?
What you don't understand is that this thread is not true. I have owned BMWs for over 30 years and not once have I ever heard any dealer being concerned with aftermarket performance modifications. In fact most of the tuning recommendations have come from the dealerships. Please remember that their primary concern is customer satisfaction so you bring in your car for warranty work and continue service after the warranty expires. Follow the money and not the scare tactics from a handful of euro-ricers.
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      05-06-2010, 08:44 PM   #44
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The name of that orange tamper paint is called "torque seal." I use to use it in the past. You can google it or get it here:

http://www.hi-line.com/more-info/?id=203
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