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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Warranty Issues After Clearing Codes - Heads Up!



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      05-06-2010, 08:54 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BzzzBom View Post
What you don't understand is that this thread is not true. I have owned BMWs for over 30 years and not once have I ever heard any dealer being concerned with aftermarket performance modifications.
You are absolutely correct-until something breaks. And then its a different ball game.
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      05-06-2010, 09:18 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by lyndon_h View Post
You are absolutely correct-until something breaks. And then its a different ball game.

Agreed. They are happy to make a positive experience out of changing oil or replacing brakes...but when it comes to shelling out real money- they do look for every way to get out of it. That really frustrates me and I'll assume many of the members on here for the same reason. We all drive [in my opinion] very nice $50k cars. When producing and selling cars of this caliber, the customer service should be the highest. Not to get too demographical, but many of us will buy a new car every 2-4 years. They should be worrying more about making sure our next cars are BMWs..., not trying to get out of HPFP claims and other non-tune related issues that make me never want to talk to BMW again. As I'm sure many of us here on the forum are rather young [under 30], we are going to be giving a tremendous amount of business ($$$) to car dealerships in our lifetime, and retaining a loyal customer isnt that hard.

My .02
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      05-06-2010, 10:43 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by BrianMN View Post
Agreed. They are happy to make a positive experience out of changing oil or replacing brakes...but when it comes to shelling out real money- they do look for every way to get out of it. That really frustrates me and I'll assume many of the members on here for the same reason. We all drive [in my opinion] very nice $50k cars. When producing and selling cars of this caliber, the customer service should be the highest. Not to get too demographical, but many of us will buy a new car every 2-4 years. They should be worrying more about making sure our next cars are BMWs..., not trying to get out of HPFP claims and other non-tune related issues that make me never want to talk to BMW again. As I'm sure many of us here on the forum are rather young [under 30], we are going to be giving a tremendous amount of business ($$$) to car dealerships in our lifetime, and retaining a loyal customer isnt that hard.

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      05-07-2010, 01:01 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMN View Post
Agreed. They are happy to make a positive experience out of changing oil or replacing brakes...but when it comes to shelling out real money- they do look for every way to get out of it. That really frustrates me and I'll assume many of the members on here for the same reason. We all drive [in my opinion] very nice $50k cars. When producing and selling cars of this caliber, the customer service should be the highest. Not to get too demographical, but many of us will buy a new car every 2-4 years. They should be worrying more about making sure our next cars are BMWs..., not trying to get out of HPFP claims and other non-tune related issues that make me never want to talk to BMW again. As I'm sure many of us here on the forum are rather young [under 30], we are going to be giving a tremendous amount of business ($$$) to car dealerships in our lifetime, and retaining a loyal customer isnt that hard.

My .02
Very true. Couldn't agree more.

On another note, can the BT Tool clear the over the speed limit that gets recorded somewhere? If that's even true.
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      05-07-2010, 01:13 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamE92 View Post
All codes were cleared, including shadow faults
Did you clear all adaptations as well?
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      05-07-2010, 06:08 AM   #50
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there has to be more to this story. Did they say deleting codes (as in all codes) or just the tuner codes? AS it was pointed out before, there is nothing wrong with deleting or clearing codes outside a dealership - hell thats why the ODB2 interface was written. They may have been suspicious so they threw out a line to bait you...
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      05-07-2010, 08:35 AM   #51
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clearing codes

What I find difficult to believe, is that there isn't a code for "date/time last cleared", and "date/time last read". Each time they are cleared or read, the date/time for these values is updated.

Now maybe the BT cable crew would get smart and even overwrite THOSE values too, but it's still something that I'm surprised doesn't exist. (or maybe it does, but isn't easily available to dealer?)

Same thing for "date flashed" -- if a s/w image is loaded, there should be a non volatile ram code that has the date/time for that, too.
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      05-07-2010, 09:38 AM   #52
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Aren't there any BMW tech's that can chime in here?
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      05-07-2010, 10:36 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by BrianMN
Not to get too demographical, but many of us will buy a new car every 2-4 years. They should be worrying more about making sure our next cars are BMWs..., not trying to get out of HPFP claims and other non-tune related issues that make me never want to talk to BMW again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by maxnix View Post
BMW is not unusual in this policy. If you strap something on the car that is not OEM and changes the functioning of the vehicle in a possibly negative or out of specification way, the warranty is out the window.

I am certain any manufacturer would gladly say adios to those who violate their modification policies rather than pay out warranty repair work for problems caused by those modifications.

To think otherwise is to have to grand a vision of one's economic importance to a manufacturer. The vast majority of cars are not modded. And I would say most on this forum here lease or finance their cars, rather than purchase them outright. Either means of acquisition indicates the renter or borrower can't really afford the car in the first place. Think about it.

You completely misread this. It clearly states "getting out of HPFP claims and other non-tune related issues". And your post clearly reflects a misconception of very common experiences.

Are you trying to say that my 'economic importance' isn't important to BMW? I find that laughable. If they make me a happy and loyal customer, I will likely buy 15+ vehicles from them in the next 40 years..in addition to my friends and family that will buy or not buy contingent on my experiences. However if they continue some of the BS they've been pulling...then I very likely will switch to Mercedes, Audi or any other car company that treats customers right....BMW will lose many sales and another company will likely gain a lifelong customer. I'm not saying that Im an all-worthy saint that will determine the sales success or demise of BMW...simply stating the power that personal experience and word of mouth has.

Thinking of one's economic importance IS valid. Just look in this thread at how many people are hesitant to buy a JB3 or BT tool because of this dialogue. (even though some of the info is questionable and they should still get a tune)
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      05-07-2010, 12:08 PM   #54
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Exactly.. Zero codes is probably somewhat of a red flag...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMD View Post
Ok, listen up. This is probably what happened.

If the OP cleared ALL the thrown codes, then that in itself is a huge tip off. Every time I scan my car, there is a harmless code somewhere that shows up. I do not clear those. Only if I see the tuner code (which I have never seen) do I clear.

I would imagine that as a service tech/manager and you run scans on these cars each day and one comes in with NO CODES WHATSOEVER, it is a tip off that they have been cleared, especially if the car has a few years on it.

Only clear tuner codes. Nothing else.
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      05-07-2010, 12:28 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxnix View Post
Either means of acquisition indicates the renter or borrower can't really afford the car in the first place. Think about it.
This is entertaining.

You have to be pretty much a moron to purchase a car outright when you can acquire financing at 0%. Or hell, even 2.9%. In fact, you have to be really, really bad with your money if you are unable to grow it at a rate higher than 5%.

As someone who (briefly) worked in auto sales at an upscale dealer, I saw lots of credit apps from people with 800+ FICOs and salaries far north of $1m. Very, very few of these top tier customers ever purchased a car outright for the same reasons I've detailed above. By your logic they couldn't "afford" the car.
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      05-07-2010, 12:30 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano View Post
Exactly.. Zero codes is probably somewhat of a red flag...

The original poster said somewhere that the only codes he saw in the system were tuner codes and those were also the only ones he deleted.

For what it is worth, I think the OP doesn't come across as someone who is clueless either.
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      05-07-2010, 02:53 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMN View Post
Agreed. They are happy to make a positive experience out of changing oil or replacing brakes...but when it comes to shelling out real money- they do look for every way to get out of it. That really frustrates me and I'll assume many of the members on here for the same reason. We all drive [in my opinion] very nice $50k cars. When producing and selling cars of this caliber, the customer service should be the highest. Not to get too demographical, but many of us will buy a new car every 2-4 years. They should be worrying more about making sure our next cars are BMWs..., not trying to get out of HPFP claims and other non-tune related issues that make me never want to talk to BMW again. As I'm sure many of us here on the forum are rather young [under 30], we are going to be giving a tremendous amount of business ($$$) to car dealerships in our lifetime, and retaining a loyal customer isnt that hard.

My .02
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxnix View Post
BMW is not unusual in this policy. If you strap something on the car that is not OEM and changes the functioning of the vehicle in a possibly negative or out of specification way, the warranty is out the window.


I am certain any manufacturer would gladly say adios to those who violate their modification policies rather than pay out warranty repair work for problems caused by those modifications.

To think otherwise is to have to grand a vision of one's economic importance to a manufacturer. The vast majority of cars are not modded. And I would say most on this forum here lease or finance their cars, rather than purchase them outright. Either means of acquisition indicates the renter or borrower can't really afford the car in the first place. Think about it.
disclaimer: The following comments do not represent BMW on any level -- these are personal observations gathered in the last two decades -- opinions only --


i believe both of these point have validity;

from the stand point of the owners that WILL buy BMW's in the future --

and the financial aspect of the lease agreement -- being a renter, and not an owner.

it all boils down to this,

if you are a renter/leasee or a purchasing owner, you want to look into the future for your next car purchase and if the company treats you good, there is no reason not to continue to do business with them, and refer your friends and family to the same line.. this is called "owner loyalty"

and its also unfair to lay the potential burden of excessive, or accelerated wear and tear on the manufacturer, or for that matter the subsequent owner of the vehicle.

tuning is not "new", but with all the improvements to engine management systems, it is easier, and granted more detrimental to the car (if not used with care and caution) in the long run. if this is agreed then lets meet at this crossroad -- and look at the apparent long term financial impact -->

1. BMW has ALWAYS rewarded customer loyalty as they were at one time a niche market car. pleasing the customer, and keeping them has been and will alway be the highest priority its called "The Perfect Circle Concept" ---
it starts even before the customer buys the car.. its his desire to own the ultimate driving machine. the dealer enters the circle with the sale of the car, and then fulfills the promise that the manufacturer makes by provide service, advise and friendship -- yes friendship, its easier to provide the customer good service when you have a joint relationship, and not adversarial ..

2. To protect their image, and quality of the vehicle in the long run, there must be containment factors. The factors are listed in the New Car Limited Warranty --these policies are designed not for the person/s not to experience a lesser driving experience, but one that is designed into the car for longevitys sake. Who wants to buy a car thats marginal in livelihood and poor in performance. there are some things that go wrong, and the warranty should take car of them - but if the things that go wrong, are attributed to an influence from a part that is outside of the design specs, then why should they be on the hook for it??

that being said, the target market demos have changed radically in the last decade, 20 year ago there were not a lot of very young drivers who owned BMW's and this has changed, now there are young folks that have a BMW as their first car. these people have a different mindset than the older generation, and getting compliance to specific parameters is quite a bit harder, eg "you cant tell me what i can and cant have on my car -- even if it breaks it"

the older generation "tuning" types were on a gentleman's agreement basis -- if you break it you buy it -- unless its really a warranty matter, and even then a lot of grace was shown to them because they were truly loyal to the product line, and were purchasers not leasees.

so with the fickleness of the young car buyer market, there is a different take on how to address continuing the product line and saving the cars for the next owner. more stringent, yes -- less love -- no... more like tough love -- you dont want to do it, but if you dont you will build a behavior pattern. how would you feel if you lent your car to a friend and he brought the car back trashed and thrased ? but in this day and age the manufacturer and the dealer are not nearly as friendly as they used to be

and probably based on young car buyer repeat purchases -- it may not be as profitable as it seems, especially if another young person buys the pre-owned car that turns into a pile in a very short time.
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      05-07-2010, 03:38 PM   #58
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Just to be clear, [again] The BS that BMW is spitting out goes like this:

Buyer buys a shiny new 335i and keeps it stock for a while.
Buyer goes thru 2-3 HPFPs, with the dealer interrogating him about mods that dont exist.
Buyer then puts on coilovers, angel eyes and muffler delete.
Buyer goes back in for 4th HPFP problem, and they refuse to do warranty work because the car is 'modded.'

Even though the techs and SAs clearly know the muffler delete had nothing to do with the HPFP problem, they are still playing hardball, and making the potential lifelong customer pay a crapload of money for unjust reasons.

That makes 2 people now that think I'm saying a fully modded car should get free warranty work. jeezze
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      05-07-2010, 05:56 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bspaceman View Post
Did you clear all adaptations as well?
Can someone go into further detail on this? I havent used my bt tool yet, but after watching the demo again and checking out their site I wasn't able to see this. Thanks in advance.
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      05-07-2010, 06:19 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMN View Post
Just to be clear, [again] The BS that BMW is spitting out goes like this:

Buyer buys a shiny new 335i and keeps it stock for a while.
Buyer goes thru 2-3 HPFPs, with the dealer interrogating him about mods that dont exist.
Buyer then puts on coilovers, angel eyes and muffler delete.
Buyer goes back in for 4th HPFP problem, and they refuse to do warranty work because the car is 'modded.'

Even though the techs and SAs clearly know the muffler delete had nothing to do with the HPFP problem, they are still playing hardball, and making the potential lifelong customer pay a crapload of money for unjust reasons.

That makes 2 people now that think I'm saying a fully modded car should get free warranty work. jeezze
no, no im not saying that ... far from that..

and if i hear you right, uve been getting the runaround. thats not a good thing. i will not defend bad service..

Im just against the thought of tuning a car to the extreme -- beating the heck out of it .. and then turning it in like nothing.. if we were all owners, and not a few owners and quite a few leasees, then i think most of us would really consider what level of tuning we would choose to use...
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