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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > The Tune to End All Tunes



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      05-06-2010, 01:45 AM   #23
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Berger Motorsports if I understand correctly.... The same people who did the powerbox.
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      05-06-2010, 01:54 AM   #24
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Any info on release date? Cost? If Berger is putting it out, you would think it would work with the PBX or they would be competing with themselves??
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      05-06-2010, 07:21 AM   #25
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Still don't regret buying my PBX, it looks like it's now holding me over until I can purchase this new treasure.

Edit: Craven, due to the 330i having the more advanced induction as well as more freely flowing exhaust, can we expect to see even more gains when compared to your 328i? Or should they be just about the same through all 3 applications 25/28/30?
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      05-06-2010, 07:49 AM   #26
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Interesting. Sounds like the Revo Technik chip I had on my old 1.8t Jetta, being an OBDII port flash and all. Price is a concern, I expect it to cost more, but reasonably more.
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      05-06-2010, 07:56 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35to330i View Post
Interesting. Sounds like the Revo Technik chip I had on my old 1.8t Jetta, being an OBDII port flash and all. Price is a concern, I expect it to cost more, but reasonably more.
I'd pay up to 1000 for the kind of gains Craven is talking about, and if it's potentially more on the 330i? No hesitation. I will be buying this. Especially since you can get custom fit maps whenever you plug your box into the computer. This is a no brainer. Now it's just a matter of time.

Craven, possible to get a dyno with both the PBX and new chip installed? It seems like it would give us a definitive answer on whether or not it would be safe/worth it to piggy back.
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      05-06-2010, 08:19 AM   #28
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I'd pay up to 1000 for the kind of gains Craven is talking about...
i thought u mentioned 15whp? or is it supposed to make alot more than that. I mean 15 whp is nice, but its not all that much more than the pbx....obviously this sounds a hella lot more flexible, but just talking hp gains here, am i missing somthing?

any idea on price range...ballpark...like double pbx pricing? triple?
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      05-06-2010, 08:26 AM   #29
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i thought u mentioned 15whp? or is it supposed to make alot more than that. I mean 15 whp is nice, but its not all that much more than the pbx....obviously this sounds a hella lot more flexible, but just talking hp gains here, am i missing somthing?

any idea on price range...ballpark...like double pbx pricing? triple?
But 20 through the midrange, that's what i'm interested in.

I wonder, since this new chip is more "flexible" If we would be able to get a custom map that compliments the PBX so we could use both in conjunction, instead of all the people that purchased one, flooding the for sale section with $250 chips that no one wants.
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      05-06-2010, 08:47 AM   #30
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Wow seriously? At best it's giving you 2x the hp that the PBX is giving you, yet you're willing to pay ~3.7x the price? Not me. Price it commensurately with the proven HP and I'll consider it. If it were in the $500-$600 range then it would be a sealed deal.
However this is all conjecture because we do not have:
1. Dyno proven results
2. Release date(s)
3. Price(s)
4. Pictures of the unit
5. Pictures/video of the "install" (not hard to plug something into the OBDII port, but SOMEONE is going to ask for a DIY or be "scared" of doing it)
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      05-06-2010, 08:55 AM   #31
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      05-06-2010, 08:56 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35to330i View Post
Wow seriously? At best it's giving you 2x the hp that the PBX is giving you, yet you're willing to pay ~3.7x the price? Not me. Price it commensurately with the proven HP and I'll consider it. If it were in the $500-$600 range then it would be a sealed deal.
However this is all conjecture because we do not have:
1. Dyno proven results
2. Release date(s)
3. Price(s)
4. Pictures of the unit
5. Pictures/video of the "install" (not hard to plug something into the OBDII port, but SOMEONE is going to ask for a DIY or be "scared" of doing it)
Seriously, it's not about mod/cost ratio for me. It's about getting the most performance out of our N52's while maintaining reliability. At 270, the PBX is a steal IMO, and the gains have been modest but on an N/A what can you really expect? If you were to utilize this new chip alone, it would probably give you more gains than a PBX, Intake, and Exhaust combined. Tally those up and you're well over $1000 (what many have spent in search for respectable gains on our cars.)

I think this is going to be well worth it, and should probably be priced anywhere from 500-800. I do understand where your coming from, as we have yet to hear/see concrete proof of gains from Craven. I'm guessing Gintani are the people doing this tuning from the looks of his signature. I'd contact them, but we're going to hear about anything first from Craven so i'm just going to sit here patiently and wait to place my order.
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      05-06-2010, 09:24 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35to330i View Post
Wow seriously? At best it's giving you 2x the hp that the PBX is giving you, yet you're willing to pay ~3.7x the price? Not me. Price it commensurately with the proven HP and I'll consider it. If it were in the $500-$600 range then it would be a sealed deal.
However this is all conjecture because we do not have:
1. Dyno proven results
2. Release date(s)
3. Price(s)
4. Pictures of the unit
5. Pictures/video of the "install" (not hard to plug something into the OBDII port, but SOMEONE is going to ask for a DIY or be "scared" of doing it)
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      05-06-2010, 09:47 AM   #34
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I want to make the point, right off the bat, that I'm not calling anyone out or have any disbelief in what is being said about these gains or anything about anyone. If Craven says it works and it's on his car then I believe him.

However, realizing that our cars are NA and that performance is very hard to get from them, I do not see the point in dropping that kind of cash for this kind of mod. No matter how hard we try we simply are not going to be 335's. We can put quads and intakes and chip ours and we'll still lose to a 335 at the end of the day. It may not be the goal of anyone to BE a 335, but just to enjoy modding their car. My hat is off to these folks, you are doing it for the purity of the "sport". For the rest of us (perhaps just me) there needs to be a cost/benefit. If it were in the $500 range then I would be first in line to sell my newly acquired PBX and jump on this (call it the PBX^2 maybe lol). However the further north it pushes, the less likely I am to purchase it.

I guess it comes down to what we value - I'm very much a cost/benefit person; this is why I would never in a million years consider something like the SuperSprint exhaust. It's the best of the best and sounds absolutely amazing. But if it's dyno proven to lose a bit of hp, then, in my book, it's not worth the cash. Meanwhile, the throttle response and ~10hp provided by the PBX is a pretty decent ROI, so I can handle that.

Maybe if the new one did what the PBX does, but adds more power then it would be a hit. But only if they include one final thing: pie. Because we all know the cake is a lie.
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      05-06-2010, 09:48 AM   #35
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agreed 1000 would be super super pricey for a tune. Yes great gains, but thats a lot of money to fork out after having bought intake, exhaust, pbx, scoops, and planned future mods.

500 would be IDEAL. but 800 isnt too bad, still pricey. Dont know about yall, but Business aint exactly boomin' right now....
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      05-06-2010, 10:37 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35to330i View Post
I want to make the point, right off the bat, that I'm not calling anyone out or have any disbelief in what is being said about these gains or anything about anyone. If Craven says it works and it's on his car then I believe him.

However, realizing that our cars are NA and that performance is very hard to get from them, I do not see the point in dropping that kind of cash for this kind of mod. No matter how hard we try we simply are not going to be 335's. We can put quads and intakes and chip ours and we'll still lose to a 335 at the end of the day. It may not be the goal of anyone to BE a 335, but just to enjoy modding their car. My hat is off to these folks, you are doing it for the purity of the "sport". For the rest of us (perhaps just me) there needs to be a cost/benefit. If it were in the $500 range then I would be first in line to sell my newly acquired PBX and jump on this (call it the PBX^2 maybe lol). However the further north it pushes, the less likely I am to purchase it.

I guess it comes down to what we value - I'm very much a cost/benefit person; this is why I would never in a million years consider something like the SuperSprint exhaust. It's the best of the best and sounds absolutely amazing. But if it's dyno proven to lose a bit of hp, then, in my book, it's not worth the cash. Meanwhile, the throttle response and ~10hp provided by the PBX is a pretty decent ROI, so I can handle that.

Maybe if the new one did what the PBX does, but adds more power then it would be a hit. But only if they include one final thing: pie. Because we all know the cake is a lie.
You make some awesome points, and I fully understand where you're coming from. I am however, doing it for the sake of modding, and for the purity of "sport" so i'm glad you understand where i'm coming from.

It's nice to see someone make valid points instead of stooping to childish insults.

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      05-06-2010, 10:52 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35to330i View Post
I want to make the point, right off the bat, that I'm not calling anyone out or have any disbelief in what is being said about these gains or anything about anyone. If Craven says it works and it's on his car then I believe him.

However, realizing that our cars are NA and that performance is very hard to get from them, I do not see the point in dropping that kind of cash for this kind of mod. No matter how hard we try we simply are not going to be 335's. We can put quads and intakes and chip ours and we'll still lose to a 335 at the end of the day. It may not be the goal of anyone to BE a 335, but just to enjoy modding their car. My hat is off to these folks, you are doing it for the purity of the "sport". For the rest of us (perhaps just me) there needs to be a cost/benefit. If it were in the $500 range then I would be first in line to sell my newly acquired PBX and jump on this (call it the PBX^2 maybe lol). However the further north it pushes, the less likely I am to purchase it.

I guess it comes down to what we value - I'm very much a cost/benefit person; this is why I would never in a million years consider something like the SuperSprint exhaust. It's the best of the best and sounds absolutely amazing. But if it's dyno proven to lose a bit of hp, then, in my book, it's not worth the cash. Meanwhile, the throttle response and ~10hp provided by the PBX is a pretty decent ROI, so I can handle that.

Maybe if the new one did what the PBX does, but adds more power then it would be a hit. But only if they include one final thing: pie. Because we all know the cake is a lie.
Ehhhh I misread your post and posted a big long C/B analysis. Instead I will suffice it to say that if I can drop 500 or 600 on this and get a fun little performance boost, it actually looks to be a pretty smart alternative to going through huge monetary and time costs upgrading to a 335. Anything over $600 would be pushing it though.

Also, there should be pie.
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      05-06-2010, 11:02 AM   #38
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You guys have to keep in mind this is the only tune that sounds like it can be proven and it is the first of its kind to actually be done. If there is competition the price would be lower, however they are (Burger MS) the only ones that are "successful" at tuning the N52 engines and proving gains. We have to wait for dynos for verifications but you guys are making so many assumptions. I'm not backing this tune at all but I still have faith that it can be done.
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      05-06-2010, 11:05 AM   #39
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You guys have to keep in mind this is the only tune that sounds like it can be proven and it is the first of its kind to actually be done. If there is competition the price would be lower, however they are (Burger MS) the only ones that are "successful" at tuning the N52 engines and proving gains. We have to wait for dynos for verifications but you guys are making so many assumptions. I'm not backing this tune at all but I still have faith that it can be done.
We're not assuming anything, simply going off the words of Craven.
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      05-06-2010, 11:20 AM   #40
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You guys have to keep in mind this is the only tune that sounds like it can be proven and it is the first of its kind to actually be done. If there is competition the price would be lower, however they are (Burger MS) the only ones that are "successful" at tuning the N52 engines and proving gains. We have to wait for dynos for verifications but you guys are making so many assumptions. I'm not backing this tune at all but I still have faith that it can be done.
Which is exactly why I said it's all conjecture at this point.
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      05-06-2010, 11:45 AM   #41
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Berger Motorsports if I understand correctly.... The same people who did the powerbox.
This is incorrect, BMS is not doing this.

Its being done through Gintani with some help from my shop, Muirhead MotorWerks.

the 330 - in theory - would see more gains due to the manifold, but we wont know until it gets tested.

the 328 version will be ready to go within 7-10 business days, with the 330 and 325 following a week or 2 after that.

Dynos are done, but with Mfest coming up there are so many cars coming through its hard to get them all together, hang tight. - Trying to get it posted today!

Cost is TBD, so i dont want to put out a guess and then say nevermind.
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      05-06-2010, 11:51 AM   #42
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This is incorrect, BMS is not doing this.

Its being done through Gintani

Cost is TBD, so i dont want to put out a guess and then say nevermind.

Knew it, hah!

Patiently awaiting the dyno sheets for the 328i, and unbelievably excited for results on the 330i.

craven: Once the 330i tune is out, I would be more than happy to stack the PBX, and Gintani tune, run it for a day, and then send results back to you to optimize the tuning to see if a stacking option would be possible/result in more gains.
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      05-06-2010, 12:00 PM   #43
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Knew it, hah!

Patiently awaiting the dyno sheets for the 328i, and unbelievably excited for results on the 330i.

craven: Once the 330i tune is out, I would be more than happy to stack the PBX, and Gintani tune, run it for a day, and then send results back to you to optimize the tuning to see if a stacking option would be possible/result in more gains.
I am going to sit down and see if the PbX can stack, if we have one sitting around I might throw it in my car and then on the dyno, for the sake of knowing. but it doesnt seem like a good idea, because the PbX just amps up the signal for fuel and air, this tune already does that + more - seems like overkill.
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      05-06-2010, 12:16 PM   #44
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I am going to sit down and see if the PbX can stack, if we have one sitting around I might throw it in my car and then on the dyno, for the sake of knowing. but it doesnt seem like a good idea, because the PbX just amps up the signal for fuel and air, this tune already does that + more - seems like overkill.
I was hoping that the flexibility of the Gintani tune would be able to account for what the PBX is already doing, and basically just add to it. Or else I have a feeling we're gonna be seeing a crapload of used PBX's in the classifieds.

Anywho, greatly appreciate everything you're doin' for all us, n52'rs.

Cheers.
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