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      07-16-2010, 02:26 AM   #1
persian54
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Lemonable?

Not sure if that's a word... but I was wondering if any lemon law gurus or people with this could help me out a little

I'll try to make it short:

Purchased car with very few miles (1mi? less? around there)

First fuel pump died about 2 weeks later (maybe less, at about 22xx miles)

Next fuel pump died at 16xxx

However, I've gone into service i believe 13 times since I bought the car in May 2009

Suspension squeaks
Loss of power
Misfires
Oil leak

Car has been in the dealer at a minimum of 2 days each time, to as much as 4 times

Actually, for my recent fuel pump, it was there for 3 days, they couldn't reproduce the problem, so they felt a software update would fix it.

I get it back.. and I change lanes and floor it.. guess what? no turbos... car won't rev past 3k rpm
on my way home, it shuts off on me while I'm driving...
take it in, car sits for 2-3 days, new fuel pump

and again now, I'm experiencing problems again
I scanned the car and i have a misfire in cyl 1

So.. Do I even have a chance?

I ask because my friend has been in service 4 times, 2 fuel pumps, in 2.5 years, BMWNA called him back today saying they're buying back his car... so it got my hopes up

any input is appreciated

Thank you
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      07-16-2010, 02:58 AM   #2
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o, and I'm financed, not lease


original problems occurred while I was stock

then when I was modded, I took the tune and BOV off, and problems still persisted (cyl 1 misfire was noted at miles prior to me re-installing my JB3)

dealer knows nothing about any modifications (obviously)

but i mean, oil leak... when stock? come on...
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      07-16-2010, 05:30 AM   #3
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1) Google your state to learn more about lemon laws
2) People with 335s only talk about 2 things HPFP and lemon law!
3) If they find out that you modded the car it will void the warranty and they will not lemon it
4) How do you know the mods are not causing the problems (except for the oil leak)? Look at it this way, you mod the car, take it to the dealer they either try fixing it or scratch their heads, return to you, you put back the mods and this whole cycle repeats with the dealer chasing its tail.
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If no codes are being thrown use Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner (concentrate). It solves rpm fluctuating upon cold start-up. Also, for most BMW problems start off by scanning your car with the Peake Research Tool. It contains the actual BMW codes. If you want to register a newly installed battery for free (just buy a $10 cable) and google/download BMWLogger
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      07-16-2010, 08:34 AM   #4
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Persian - PM me

Have you recorded your complaint with NHTSA? If not, do it now. You'll need your VIN number when you go to http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm to file your complaint.
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      07-16-2010, 08:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post

Actually, for my recent fuel pump, it was there for 3 days, they couldn't reproduce the problem, so they felt a software update would fix it.

I get it back.. and I change lanes and floor it.. guess what? no turbos... car won't rev past 3k rpm
on my way home, it shuts off on me while I'm driving...
take it in, car sits for 2-3 days, new fuel pump

and again now, I'm experiencing problems again
I scanned the car and i have a misfire in cyl 1
It's only a car, in this day and age, one has to wonder why dealerships can't get it right. I know the SA is the gatekeeper so he has the "not my problem I didn't work on the car" mentality, but someone has to take responsibility.

I feel for you because I have also gotten my car back on two occasions only to have it die on the way home.
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      07-16-2010, 09:39 AM   #6
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Garage List
California Lemon Law

California Lemon Law 1793.22.

(a) This section shall be known and may be cited as the Tanner Consumer Protection Act.

(b) It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been made to conform a new motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties if, within 18 months from delivery to the buyer or 18,000 miles on the odometer of the vehicle, whichever occurs first, either

(1) the same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity or

(2) the vehicle is out of service by reason of repair of nonconformities by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 calendar days since delivery of the vehicle to the buyer. The 30-day limit shall be extended only if repairs cannot be performed due to conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer or its agents. The buyer shall be required to directly notify the manufacturer pursuant to paragraph (1) only if the manufacturer has clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the buyer, with the warranty or the owner's manual, the provisions of this section and that of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2, including the requirement that the buyer must notify the manufacturer directly pursuant to paragraph (1). This presumption shall be a reputable presumption affecting the burden of proof, and it may be asserted by the buyer in any civil action, including an action in small claims court, or other formal or informal proceeding.
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      07-16-2010, 10:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
Not sure if that's a word... but I was wondering if any lemon law gurus or people with this could help me out a little

I'll try to make it short:

Purchased car with very few miles (1mi? less? around there)

First fuel pump died about 2 weeks later (maybe less, at about 22xx miles)

Next fuel pump died at 16xxx

However, I've gone into service i believe 13 times since I bought the car in May 2009

Suspension squeaks
Loss of power
Misfires
Oil leak

Car has been in the dealer at a minimum of 2 days each time, to as much as 4 times

Actually, for my recent fuel pump, it was there for 3 days, they couldn't reproduce the problem, so they felt a software update would fix it.

I get it back.. and I change lanes and floor it.. guess what? no turbos... car won't rev past 3k rpm
on my way home, it shuts off on me while I'm driving...
take it in, car sits for 2-3 days, new fuel pump

and again now, I'm experiencing problems again
I scanned the car and i have a misfire in cyl 1

So.. Do I even have a chance?

I ask because my friend has been in service 4 times, 2 fuel pumps, in 2.5 years, BMWNA called him back today saying they're buying back his car... so it got my hopes up

any input is appreciated

Thank you
There is a user on here (I believe his name is SFLoft) who had his car bought back by BMW. See if you can find his thread and contact him. I'm sure he can help you.
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      07-16-2010, 10:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
o, and I'm financed, not lease


original problems occurred while I was stock

then when I was modded, I took the tune and BOV off, and problems still persisted (cyl 1 misfire was noted at miles prior to me re-installing my JB3)

dealer knows nothing about any modifications (obviously)

but i mean, oil leak... when stock? come on...
They do, now.
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      07-16-2010, 10:49 AM   #9
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Financed, Lease, It dont matter. If you have a consistent defective car (in and out of the shop) and under warranty - the best thing to do is contact a lawyer to see if you have a case or not. PM me if you want information for the guy (and many others) have used in SoCal and all have been successful. All you do is fax them ALL your service records, they will let you know within a couple days if you have a case or not. And all consultation are free, they will not proceed to the case if they KNOW you do not have a case. They won't make any money, unless they win for you.

Kevin
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      07-16-2010, 11:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriztofor View Post
1) Google your state to learn more about lemon laws
2) People with 335s only talk about 2 things HPFP and lemon law!
3) If they find out that you modded the car it will void the warranty and they will not lemon it
4) How do you know the mods are not causing the problems (except for the oil leak)? Look at it this way, you mod the car, take it to the dealer they either try fixing it or scratch their heads, return to you, you put back the mods and this whole cycle repeats with the dealer chasing its tail.
1) I have. yet I am not one to understand law terminology well

Hence the fact that I love this information, yet I can't fully comprehend it. I can to a degree, but not 100%, which is why I posted a thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by advocado View Post
California Lemon Law 1793.22.

(a) This section shall be known and may be cited as the Tanner Consumer Protection Act.

(b) It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been made to conform a new motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties if, within 18 months from delivery to the buyer or 18,000 miles on the odometer of the vehicle, whichever occurs first, either

(1) the same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity or

(2) the vehicle is out of service by reason of repair of nonconformities by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 calendar days since delivery of the vehicle to the buyer. The 30-day limit shall be extended only if repairs cannot be performed due to conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer or its agents. The buyer shall be required to directly notify the manufacturer pursuant to paragraph (1) only if the manufacturer has clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the buyer, with the warranty or the owner's manual, the provisions of this section and that of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2, including the requirement that the buyer must notify the manufacturer directly pursuant to paragraph (1). This presumption shall be a reputable presumption affecting the burden of proof, and it may be asserted by the buyer in any civil action, including an action in small claims court, or other formal or informal proceeding.
Beautiful yet layman's terms would be nice

2) Maybe because we unfornately have the problem? Regardless of mods or not (and if you note, mine isn't just for fuel pump... rather, suspension squeaks, oil leak on a new car) Did you not see those and only target the fuel pump?

3) They will find out how?

4) Exact same problems occurred while stock (before I even knew about this site; this site caused me to mod lol)
I felt the Jb3 was a big cause. I removed it again and again, problem persists. Thus, it can't directly be caused by it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
Persian - PM me

Have you recorded your complaint with NHTSA? If not, do it now. You'll need your VIN number when you go to http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm to file your complaint.
Pm sent.
Should I file a complain first or call BMW NA again?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcube View Post
They do, now.
Again, how?

Car is registered under a different name.
Nor do they know I'm persian
Nor do I go to a dealer in any vicinity of my location


If the problems were not present while stock, then I would agree the mods are a direct cause.
But since they began, and still persist even stock, is why I feel frustrated.
Who likes buying a 65k car, and after about 2 weeks of ownership, having it die on them on the freeway and shut off? and then having to drive to the middle of no where cause no local dealer would give a loaner?
I sold my Porsche due to maintenance problems... I didn't buy a new car to have it sit at the dealer or make me scared flooring it

Thank you everyone or your responses and input
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      07-16-2010, 11:06 AM   #11
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Filing a complaint with NHTSA merely gets your issue on the record. It has nothing - per se - to do with any lemon law complaint, but it does show that there is a pattern of these types of issues. If everyone who has an HPFP issue, and has had driveability issues, had filed a complaint, then NHTSA would have investigated and the issue would have been resolved.
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      07-16-2010, 11:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
Filing a complaint with NHTSA merely gets your issue on the record. It has nothing - per se - to do with any lemon law complaint, but it does show that there is a pattern of these types of issues. If everyone who has an HPFP issue, and has had driveability issues, had filed a complaint, then NHTSA would have investigated and the issue would have been resolved.
Very true

I will do it once the rain stops and I can get my VIN (yes it's 80 degrees in July and it's raining...)
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      07-16-2010, 11:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
Very true

I will do it once the rain stops and I can get my VIN (yes it's 80 degrees in July and it's raining...)
your VIN should be on your insurance document in your wallet.
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      07-16-2010, 11:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
Filing a complaint with NHTSA merely gets your issue on the record. It has nothing - per se - to do with any lemon law complaint, but it does show that there is a pattern of these types of issues. If everyone who has an HPFP issue, and has had driveability issues, had filed a complaint, then NHTSA would have investigated and the issue would have been resolved.
And..the NHTSA will do nothing because BMW took the initiative and warrantied the HPFP for 10yr/120k miles. The NHTSA will NOT force BMW to buy back every car equipped with the N54. It ain't gonna happen folks...
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      07-16-2010, 11:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
And..the NHTSA will do nothing because BMW took the initiative and warrantied the HPFP for 10yr/120k miles. The NHTSA will NOT force BMW to buy back every car equipped with the N54. It ain't gonna happen folks...

To the OP..You're SOL.
That's not quite right. BMW fired the first salvo with the extended warranty - but - that doesn't resolve any driveability issues. Those are squarely in NHTSA's ballpark.
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      07-16-2010, 12:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
your VIN should be on your insurance document in your wallet.

Heh completely forgot about that

Haven't needed to pull it out in very long time
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      07-16-2010, 12:23 PM   #17
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I thought they (BMW) could find out (about mods) by pulling codes, but someone on here posted that you can clear the codes with the BT scan tool.
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If no codes are being thrown use Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner (concentrate). It solves rpm fluctuating upon cold start-up. Also, for most BMW problems start off by scanning your car with the Peake Research Tool. It contains the actual BMW codes. If you want to register a newly installed battery for free (just buy a $10 cable) and google/download BMWLogger
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      07-16-2010, 12:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriztofor View Post
I thought they (BMW) could find out (about mods) by pulling codes, but someone on here posted that you can clear the codes with the BT scan tool.
Yes

One should never go into service without first checking exactly what codes are indeed present

Fortunately I haven't (if I remember right) ever thrown any tuner codes

Mainly misfires in cyl 1-6 (yes all)
Fuel Pump
and some random stuff that I don't understand

suspension stuff don't show up
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      07-16-2010, 12:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
That's not quite right. BMW fired the first salvo with the extended warranty - but - that doesn't resolve any driveability issues. Those are squarely in NHTSA's ballpark.
The HPFP isn't even expensive, Exactly--WTF does warranting it really do for anybody? It's such a false sense of security thinking the HPFP is warranted to 10/120. Heck, I've heard of a Nissan alternator recall and a new alternator costs more than a HPFP. Keep in mind Nissan recalls, BMW extends.

In so many cases it's not the HPFP causing a driveablility issue. They are the more expensive components--turbos, injectors, coil packs, DME, and all the labor that goes into replacing those items. Look at the visio diagram, it's pretty much setup such that it always ends up being software updates for the resolution.
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      07-16-2010, 01:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John 070 View Post
The HPFP isn't even expensive, Exactly--WTF does warranting it really do for anybody? It's such a false sense of security thinking the HPFP is warranted to 10/120. Heck, I've heard of a Nissan alternator recall and a new alternator costs more than a HPFP. Keep in mind Nissan recalls, BMW extends.

In so many cases it's not the HPFP causing a driveablility issue. They are the more expensive components--turbos, injectors, coil packs, DME, and all the labor that goes into replacing those items. Look at the visio diagram, it's pretty much setup such that it always ends up being software updates for the resolution.
Yup.. my software update was great... for the iDrive aspect
pump still ended up dying on me
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      07-16-2010, 03:29 PM   #21
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there some lemon lawyer contact information in the California section
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      07-16-2010, 03:54 PM   #22
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don't let them send you out the door without getting a service report for each visit. Sometimes the pull the trick on combining visits onto the same report. This is important cuz even if the total days out of commission doesn't reach 30 days, the number of visits will help you prove your case. good luck
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