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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Take 7: We finally dyno a Steptronic all proper-like



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      12-08-2006, 07:52 PM   #1
shiv@vishnu
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Take 7: We finally dyno a Steptronic all proper-like

Hi guys,
In the last two days, we've installed XEDEs on two Steptronic'd 335is. Today, we managed to a proper single gear (3rd) pull from low RPM to Redline without it downshifting. As someone suggested in another thread, the trick is to disable DTC (hold down for 5 seconds) before you even roll (even a tiny bit) on the dyno rollers. If you roll first and then disable DTC, all is lost. Of course, you will also have to stay out of the kickdown switch at the end of the throttle travel. So thanks to all who contributed to the project

Back to business...

All dyno testing was done in 3rd gear. By 3000rpm, the car is full throttle (just shy of the kickdown switch). The dyno run last several seconds less then a normal 4th gear 6MT dyno run. So it's best not to directly compare them since testing conditions/procedure is so different.

This customer's car (name withheld) put down 260-261whp in stock form (run 2 and 3). With the Xede activated (running the baseline Stg 0 map), the very next run it put down 315whp. That's a healthy 55whp gain with no custom tuning. Torque went from 273 to 327lbft-- a gain of 54lbft. The car generated so much torque that it began to rock back and forth on the dyno (hence the little oscillations in the midrange).

Steptronic'd Stg 0 vs. Stock 91oct


In a 4th gear run (not shown), torque when up to 350lbft but power dropped to 310whp (longer run generated more heat up top).

Again, this dyno does seem to read quite a bit lower than the other Dynojets I've used. For instance, we've baselining stock 6MT cars at 270whp. The dyno I used last weekend in TX was reading 285whp for stock 6MT cars. Yes, there is an octane difference but I'm not so sure it matters at stock power levels. Which dyno is right? I don't know. And it really doesn't matter, I suppose. What is important is that we compare runs only done on the same day on the same dyno. So there you have it

Now all we need to do is dyno test a 6MT Stg 0 car (next week). All of the 6MT cars we've tested so far have exhaust systems.

Cheers,
shiv
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      12-08-2006, 08:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Again, this dyno does seem to read quite a bit lower than the other Dynojets I've used. For instance, we've baselining stock 6MT cars at 270whp. The dyno I used last weekend in TX was reading 285whp for stock 6MT cars. Yes, there is an octane difference but I'm not so sure it matters at stock power levels. Which dyno is right? I don't know. And it really doesn't matter, I suppose. What is important is that we compare runs only done on the same day on the same dyno. So there you have it

Now all we need to do is dyno test a 6MT Stg 0 car (next week). All of the 6MT cars we've tested so far have exhaust systems.

Cheers,
shiv
When I raced in a HP restricted class, the dyno-to-dyno variance would cause issues for anyone pushing the limit AND trying to be legal. Those who wanted to cheat (it was Pro ($$$) racing so that means almost everyone) would just run different maps with a hidden cheater switch, since the podium guys were all re-measured hot off the track.

Anyway, just wanted to throw in that support on dyno variance, even with same model Dynojet, is both real and can be significant.
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      12-08-2006, 08:25 PM   #3
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Shiv,

It will be interesting to see how our S. FL 335i's dyno at before (stock) and after (w/ Xede) at JapTrix next week, since they supposedly have the Mustang Dyno (which I believe typically shows lower numbers than the DynoJet dyno); however, we are all running on 93 octane though. It's great that you now know how to do the 3rd gear dyno for a Auto/Step 335i without the car downshifting automatically.
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      12-08-2006, 08:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Now all we need to do is dyno test a 6MT Stg 0 car (next week). All of the 6MT cars we've tested so far have exhaust systems.
I was under the impression that you have done quite a few 6MT tunes @ Stg 0 for 93 Octane??? Is this not correct... If so, I am very confused about what has been going on.

Isn't this thread from TX about a 6MT Stg 0 tune that put down silly HP numbers WITHOUT an exhaust?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38686
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      12-08-2006, 08:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff2010
I was under the impression that you have done quite a few 6MT tunes @ Stg 0 for 93 Octane??? Is this not correct... If so, I am very confused about what has been going on.

Yes, there have been several. But as you said, they were all done out-of-state on 93oct. I haven't done any local 91oct 6MT Steptronics yet. I'm not concerned about the map. I just want to compare the 6MT to the Step on the same dyno, same day. I had a 6MT also slotted for today but he had to reschedule.

-shiv
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      12-08-2006, 08:32 PM   #6
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Ah gotcha... didn't realize we were talking about a 6MT on 91 (in cali). I am out of state, and I do have 93... so that's all I care about

Thanks for the clarification,
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      12-08-2006, 09:06 PM   #7
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Here's a review from the owner (Mr. Z) He is a member of this forum but wants to remain anonymous due to warranty concerns....

Quote:
Hi all,



First off Id like to say thank you to shiv, he is an awesome tuner and extremely nice guy. If he has plans to come to your area for installs I highly recommend trying to make it. Just listening to talk about tuning and performance on the 335i will get you excited. He answered all my questions and made me feel really comfortable about the install/uninstall process as well as what the xede was actually changing vs. the stock map.



On to the details, the install process is extremely easy. If you have any experience with basic automotive type work this will be a breeze for you. Even experience with personal computer component installs will be enough experience to make the process extremely easy. The installation procedure that shiv plans to ship with the production units will make this process even more trivial. I wont go into details, incase things change prior to shipping, but he has it well thought out.



My car is an automatic and with 91 octane gas, put down ~261whp and ~273lbft stock. Once the new map was downloaded to the Xede, my very next run put down ~315whp. Pretty impressive being that this was the default map. This is great news for people that will be doing the install themselves, as the stock map will provide near optimal performance without being custom tuned.



I know everyone that has had the Xede installed has said the same thing, that the car feels completely different. And I cannot emphasize how true this is. Coming from a 02 e46 M3 the stock 335i felt a tad slower and less responsive. With the xede the difference is now phenomenal with the 335 really shinning where the M3 lacks, torque. The difference in the throttle response is noticeable and now feels on par with my old M3. The power increase is insane; its hard to believe that there were zero mechanical changes to the car, no exhaust, no cam, no headers, etc. The car now feels complete.



To sum it up, I am extremely happy with the product and support I received. If you are looking for that extra power from your 335, Xede is the way to go.



Mr.Z
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      12-08-2006, 11:08 PM   #8
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You said that the car generated 315whp witht hte basline map, did you realize any gains by tuning specifically for his car?
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      12-09-2006, 12:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Today, we managed to a proper single gear (3rd) pull from low RPM to Redline without it downshifting. As someone suggested in another thread, the trick is to disable DTC (hold down for 5 seconds) before you even roll (even a tiny bit) on the dyno rollers. If you roll first and then disable DTC, all is lost. Of course, you will also have to stay out of the kickdown switch at the end of the throttle travel. So thanks to all who contributed to the project
This is pretty much exactly what my local dyno shop told me... I am glad you got it to work too... that was all I needed to go forward with my XEDE order...


Is there a reason for the 3rd gear run instead of using the 4th gear run like the others?
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      12-09-2006, 01:17 AM   #10
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Personally, I would rather have more torque and less HP in most instances. Torque gets you going fast. HP makes your top speed faster.
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      12-09-2006, 10:27 AM   #11
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Shiv,
Steptronic question for ya.

Now that you had a chance to drive the Steptronic in Texas running 93 octane and the Steptronic here running 91 octane, do you notice a difference from your seat of the pants dyno when you drove it? I know the dyno numbers are going to show more hp and tq for the 93 but can you really feel it?
I'm in Cali and it's going to be a small burden to stock up on 100 octane and mix with 91 every time I gas up. IS IT WORTH IT????

Thanks
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      12-09-2006, 11:33 AM   #12
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"I know everyone that has had the Xede installed has said the same thing, that the car feels completely different. And I cannot emphasize how true this is. Coming from a 02 e46 M3 the stock 335i felt a tad slower and less responsive. With the xede the difference is now phenomenal with the 335 really shinning where the M3 lacks, torque. The difference in the throttle response is noticeable and now feels on par with my old M3. The power increase is insane; its hard to believe that there were zero mechanical changes to the car, no exhaust, no cam, no headers, etc. The car now feels complete."


This is what was always lacking with the 335. The throttle is really slow compared to my old M3 and I always feel there's something missing. Thankfully the XEDE will solve this problem.
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      12-09-2006, 06:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamf
Personally, I would rather have more torque and less HP in most instances. Torque gets you going fast. HP makes your top speed faster.
Before I spent seasons racing, I used to believe this is true. Unfortunately for that theory, HP is king in most all out performance situations including acceleration, otherwise we'd all be loving diesels!

Although if you want to get technical, HP is really just TQ at a specific engine RPM... HP = TQ * RPM / 5252
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      12-09-2006, 08:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanillarice19
Shiv,
Steptronic question for ya.

Now that you had a chance to drive the Steptronic in Texas running 93 octane and the Steptronic here running 91 octane, do you notice a difference from your seat of the pants dyno when you drove it? I know the dyno numbers are going to show more hp and tq for the 93 but can you really feel it?
I'm in Cali and it's going to be a small burden to stock up on 100 octane and mix with 91 every time I gas up. IS IT WORTH IT????

Thanks
I can't wait to find this out either. I have a 100 Octane pump 5 minutes from me. If 93 puts out enough extra power over the base 91 tune, I'll fill up at that station every time!! (The only difference is that I have the manual trans)
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      12-10-2006, 01:36 AM   #15
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Question for Mr Z

Mr Z, now that you have all this new power and torque what happens if you stomp on the gas in Sport mode in 1st gear with stability control disabled? Do the wheels light up or does it just take off like a bat out of hell? That has always been one problem with automatics, it is hard to get any wheel spin on pavement but I am guessing with 315 HP to the wheels it should pretty easy to spin them

Thanks
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      12-10-2006, 03:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1
Mr Z, now that you have all this new power and torque what happens if you stomp on the gas in Sport mode in 1st gear with stability control disabled? Do the wheels light up or does it just take off like a bat out of hell? That has always been one problem with automatics, it is hard to get any wheel spin on pavement but I am guessing with 315 HP to the wheels it should pretty easy to spin them

Thanks
Hmmm, my stock 335i in M1, DSC/DTC disabled will not stay planted...of course perhaps part of that is the cold weather here...
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      12-11-2006, 11:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1
Mr Z, now that you have all this new power and torque what happens if you stomp on the gas in Sport mode in 1st gear with stability control disabled? Do the wheels light up or does it just take off like a bat out of hell? That has always been one problem with automatics, it is hard to get any wheel spin on pavement but I am guessing with 315 HP to the wheels it should pretty easy to spin them

Thanks
I can light up my tires every time in first gear without the xede... even in the auto... it actually stifts into 2nd and keeps the burn going until I let off the gas... I can only imagine that the xede would make this much much easier (only 3/4 throttle probably)
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      12-11-2006, 03:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Hi guys,
In the last two days, we've installed XEDEs on two Steptronic'd 335is. Today, we managed to a proper single gear (3rd) pull from low RPM to Redline without it downshifting. As someone suggested in another thread, the trick is to disable DTC (hold down for 5 seconds) before you even roll (even a tiny bit) on the dyno rollers. If you roll first and then disable DTC, all is lost. Of course, you will also have to stay out of the kickdown switch at the end of the throttle travel. So thanks to all who contributed to the project

Back to business...

All dyno testing was done in 3rd gear. By 3000rpm, the car is full throttle (just shy of the kickdown switch). The dyno run last several seconds less then a normal 4th gear 6MT dyno run. So it's best not to directly compare them since testing conditions/procedure is so different.

This customer's car (name withheld) put down 260-261whp in stock form (run 2 and 3). With the Xede activated (running the baseline Stg 0 map), the very next run it put down 315whp. That's a healthy 55whp gain with no custom tuning. Torque went from 273 to 327lbft-- a gain of 54lbft. The car generated so much torque that it began to rock back and forth on the dyno (hence the little oscillations in the midrange).

Steptronic'd Stg 0 vs. Stock 91oct


In a 4th gear run (not shown), torque when up to 350lbft but power dropped to 310whp (longer run generated more heat up top).

Again, this dyno does seem to read quite a bit lower than the other Dynojets I've used. For instance, we've baselining stock 6MT cars at 270whp. The dyno I used last weekend in TX was reading 285whp for stock 6MT cars. Yes, there is an octane difference but I'm not so sure it matters at stock power levels. Which dyno is right? I don't know. And it really doesn't matter, I suppose. What is important is that we compare runs only done on the same day on the same dyno. So there you have it

Now all we need to do is dyno test a 6MT Stg 0 car (next week). All of the 6MT cars we've tested so far have exhaust systems.

Cheers,
shiv
Wow great great numbers....
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      12-11-2006, 03:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68
Before I spent seasons racing, I used to believe this is true. Unfortunately for that theory, HP is king in most all out performance situations including acceleration, otherwise we'd all be loving diesels!

Although if you want to get technical, HP is really just TQ at a specific engine RPM... HP = TQ * RPM / 5252

True, torque at high rpm combined with short gearing (torque multiplication).

Low end torque is nice for stop and go in daily driving, and the 335 shines.
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      12-12-2006, 12:07 AM   #20
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The gain is consistent 55-60whp/55-60 lb-ft torque with Xede. That all matters.
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      01-27-2007, 04:20 PM   #21
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Thumbs up Can't wait!

Shiv,
Your guys finally responded (I'm the slightly angry email from kc, mo ). Calvin talked to me and made all my worries disappear! I should be placing the order by Wednesday and am going to be installing it with my friends at Rosso Motorspots in Overland Park, KS. Can't wait to get them involved as they are really big on ECU map's, and hopefully we will have some of our own to upload for your customer use in the near future.

Thanks again, and i can't wait!
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      01-28-2007, 03:58 AM   #22
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what happened? i thought u were getting 405RWTQ with the xede software?
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