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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Cool Carbon pads issue anyone?



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      06-02-2010, 05:08 PM   #1
Ramppo
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Cool Carbon pads issue anyone?

Hi,

Purchased Cool Carbon Brake Pads last November and drove the car for a few weeks with them with no issues at all actually the where performeing really well. Then i put the car to garage for winter.
Now this spring as i had my Vishnu meth kit and had been data loging the car i have done lot of hard brakeings, after a few data logging sessions the car started to shakeing like crazy when brakeing so i took it to a friend of mine who is working at the BMW turns out that the BMW:s OEM rotors couldn`t take the heat the Cool Carbon pads make during hard brakeings and the OEM rotors where crooked.
Anybody else had similar issues?
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      06-02-2010, 06:40 PM   #2
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Modern BMW rotors don't "warp" or become crooked that easily. I've done some very VERY heavy and repeated braking from 120mph down to about 40mph for 10-12 times in a 20 minute span and NEVER had I warped a set of stock BMW rotors.

And I am considered freakishly harsh on brakes by my peers.

What you are experiencing, is rust deposit from the pad sitting in roughly the same position for extended periods of time. Then after that, the few mild stops produced "deposit" where the rust spots are and makes those spots higher than the rest of the rotor surface, creating what feels like a warped rotor sensation. Problem will clear itself in a couple of weeks of daily driving or switching to a more aggressive track oriented compound.
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      06-02-2010, 08:38 PM   #3
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I had some problems with them at the track last week.... after a few hard laps they were juddering like crazy on hard braking. Every session they would be fine for 1 to 2 laps then shaking would start again when they warmed up. I assumed it was just because I hadn't bedded them good enough. Car has 3000 miles and about 2000 on cool carbons. After coming home I took pads off and they were glazed over pretty bad.... I guess it could be improper bedding that didn't prepare them properly for the heat at the track?
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      06-03-2010, 10:49 AM   #4
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i warped my oem rotors with oem pads in one night.
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      06-03-2010, 10:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiralOut View Post
I had some problems with them at the track last week.... after a few hard laps they were juddering like crazy on hard braking. Every session they would be fine for 1 to 2 laps then shaking would start again when they warmed up. I assumed it was just because I hadn't bedded them good enough. Car has 3000 miles and about 2000 on cool carbons. After coming home I took pads off and they were glazed over pretty bad.... I guess it could be improper bedding that didn't prepare them properly for the heat at the track?
I use Ferodo and never have an issue. My guess is the compound on cool carbon couldn't handle the heat; it most likely started to melt and left a lot of residues on the rotor, which caused the judder. I had the same issue with Axxis ULT but judder should go away after a few days of driving or when the residues wear off. Go get some real track pads from Hawk, Ferodo, or PFC.
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Last edited by runnerx; 06-03-2010 at 11:41 AM.
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      06-03-2010, 11:41 AM   #6
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Cool Carbon pads can easily handle the heat; check for rotor warpage or localized deposits of friction material that can occur from parking car with very hot components and without allowing pads and rotors to cool. Proper bedding initially generally keeps this from occurring. Pads may need to be re-bedded if driven on the street for extended periods between events.

It is also possible that foreign material between the wheel and the rotor surface or between the rotor and the hub can cause vibration after parts heat up. Cool carbon pads dissipate heat generally better than most due to among other things, a hollow fiber being used and they will also will operate above 600C (1112F). Generally track temperatures generated do not exceed 900F .
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      06-03-2010, 11:53 AM   #7
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No issue here with CC pads, the shimmy being experienced on track when pads warm up is due to uneven deposits on the disc. Happened to me on track and that was because bedding wasn't complete! It will eventually disappear the longer you drive, or when you redo the bedding process.

Refrain from using brakes at end of each track session and do not use hand brakes.

I also store the car for the winter with no problems, and again I don't use the hand brakes.
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      06-03-2010, 04:28 PM   #8
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Also, make sure your wheels are torqued properly. Overtightened or unevenly torqued lug bolts can cause the rotor to warp when heated up.
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      06-04-2010, 07:50 AM   #9
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Thanks for all comments.
I`ll be geting next week a new set of ECS-Tuning Drilled/Slotted rotors and a new set of brake lines as we install those we will reinstall the cool carbon bads too, that should solve the issue i hope.
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      06-04-2010, 09:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramppo View Post
Hi,

Purchased Cool Carbon Brake Pads last November and drove the car for a few weeks with them with no issues at all actually the where performeing really well. Then i put the car to garage for winter.
Now this spring as i had my Vishnu meth kit and had been data loging the car i have done lot of hard brakeings, after a few data logging sessions the car started to shakeing like crazy when brakeing so i took it to a friend of mine who is working at the BMW turns out that the BMW:s OEM rotors couldn`t take the heat the Cool Carbon pads make during hard brakeings and the OEM rotors where crooked.
Anybody else had similar issues?
The OEM pads might be better than Cool Carbon, as the product has been getting mixed reviews. The stock pads are dust monsters, so if the cool carbons don't produce much dust, my theory is that they will not be able to hold up under extreme braking, as low dust pads, seem to melt easily.
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      06-04-2010, 10:03 AM   #11
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I have no problem with my CC pads.
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      06-04-2010, 11:03 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
The OEM pads might be better than Cool Carbon, as the product has been getting mixed reviews. The stock pads are dust monsters, so if the cool carbons don't produce much dust, my theory is that they will not be able to hold up under extreme braking, as low dust pads, seem to melt easily.
The Cool Carbons are definitely a LOT better than the OEM pads; there's simply no comparison. I've driven two consecutive laps on the Nürburgring on several occasions with them without any fading or other heat related problems.

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      06-07-2010, 09:59 PM   #13
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Keep the discussion up.

I am going to get them (or some hawks) soon and would like to make an educated decision.
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      06-08-2010, 04:22 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
The Cool Carbons are definitely a LOT better than the OEM pads; there's simply no comparison. I've driven two consecutive laps on the Nürburgring on several occasions with them without any fading or other heat related problems.

Alpina_B3_Lux
But that is also no problem with the standard pads I drove 5 consecutive laps with the standard pads with no issue... the just wear down fast

The CC are however not much better. They where gone in one weekend on the Ring. Personally I do not like the pedal feel with the CC (al lot of pedal travel) and I was not confident on the brakes. To be hones, with the OEM pads I was much more confident. And yes, the brake in was doneproperly

I will try an other set (as I ordered 2 sets) and see how these feel. I do not expect something different though. After this set is gone, I will try Performance Friction or Endless.
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      06-08-2010, 08:24 PM   #15
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This is a helpful discussion, keep it up!

Hey Ramppo, I was in Turku for a while last month. Finland rocks, one of my favorite places in the world.

Not sure I would get drilled rotors. Slotted are OK for track, but not drilled.
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      06-09-2010, 01:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
This is a helpful discussion, keep it up!

Hey Ramppo, I was in Turku for a while last month. Finland rocks, one of my favorite places in the world.

Not sure I would get drilled rotors. Slotted are OK for track, but not drilled.
+1. Slotted is prefered. Are there any available as replacement for the original disks?
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      06-09-2010, 04:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
+1. Slotted is prefered. Are there any available as replacement for the original disks?
Lots, yes, have a look at the vendor section in this forum. I'm running with EBC Turbo Groove (slotted and dimpled, not drilled) right now.

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      06-09-2010, 08:02 AM   #18
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I made several track days with CC and OEM disks.
My experience is somehow similar i.e. getting some vibrations (even big ones) from the front train when you do mash the brakes for several continous laps.

This is caused by disks overheating...it is sufficient to let them cool few laps and vibration will be gone.
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      06-09-2010, 11:58 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiralOut View Post
I had some problems with them at the track last week.... after a few hard laps they were juddering like crazy on hard braking. Every session they would be fine for 1 to 2 laps then shaking would start again when they warmed up. I assumed it was just because I hadn't bedded them good enough. Car has 3000 miles and about 2000 on cool carbons. After coming home I took pads off and they were glazed over pretty bad.... I guess it could be improper bedding that didn't prepare them properly for the heat at the track?
Just came back from a 2-day event, had the same exact issues.

Severe vibration after warm up and the pads' surface was glazed by end of day 1. Swapped rotors on day 2 and re-bedded the pads to see if it'll make a difference, it did not. I'll bring a different set of pads on the next event and fall back to a set of OEM rotors to baseline the 2 configurations, I'm not happy with the way things are at the moment. (CC pads, breakperformance slotted rotors)
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      06-09-2010, 02:31 PM   #20
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I had a HPDE on saturday, and I used Zimmerman cross drilled rotors, and Textar Pads, NO ISSUES whatsoever, which is very impressive for OEM equivalent replacements.
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      06-09-2010, 03:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
This is a helpful discussion, keep it up!

Hey Ramppo, I was in Turku for a while last month. Finland rocks, one of my favorite places in the world.

Not sure I would get drilled rotors. Slotted are OK for track, but not drilled.
Nice to hear you liked it, have to admit that Finland is quite nice place at the summer time but iam not so sure about the winter though.

All ready ordered the rotors so drilled+slotted are comeing. My friend(BMW mechanic) clearly stated that the OEM rotors where crooked due the exessed heat from the hard brakeings, i also could see myself the "waves" at the surface of the rotors.
I thought that the more cooling the less crookeing effect so my pick was drillet+slotted we will how it works as i get the new RB turbos i will have a lot of logging to do.
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      06-10-2010, 01:49 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramppo View Post
Hi,

Purchased Cool Carbon Brake Pads last November and drove the car for a few weeks with them with no issues at all actually the where performeing really well. Then i put the car to garage for winter.
Now this spring as i had my Vishnu meth kit and had been data loging the car i have done lot of hard brakeings, after a few data logging sessions the car started to shakeing like crazy when brakeing so i took it to a friend of mine who is working at the BMW turns out that the BMW:s OEM rotors couldn`t take the heat the Cool Carbon pads make during hard brakeings and the OEM rotors where crooked.
Anybody else had similar issues?
I have seen someone gone through a new set of Cool Carbon pads in three 20 minute sessions at Laguna Seca, this is with oem rotors and calipers. Even oem pads can stand up to a few days of abuse at Laguna.
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