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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Procede v4 Methanol AutoTuning



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      06-29-2010, 02:45 PM   #1
shiv@vishnu
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Talking Procede v4 Methanol AutoTuning

It's done! No more having to "figure out" what boost and ignition correction settings to run with methanol injection. This is especially useful given all the different combinations/configurations that people run (jet size, min/max psi settings, methanol/water ratio, type of methanol/ethanol, etc,.) So far, so great. I plan to release it either tomorrow or the day after.

Here's how it works:
In progressive methanol mode, autotuning only activates under certain conditions. One of those conditions being that meth flow must be above the meth flow % threshold you set in the user software (Injection mode/future use 1)

When meth is flowing above this threshold, the Procede's autotuning system is active. This means that the Procede automatically adjusts map2 UT and IC values as it sees fit (ie, until the tune reaches the desired aggression target). As always, you can set the upper learning limit for boost. In my case, I set it to 18psi for today's particular testing purposes. Typically for street use, I'd set it to 17psi since that is the most boost I'd run on pump+meth. FWIW, at the drag strip, running on 110oct race gas+meth, I'd set it to 20psi.

What's different about the Methanol AutoTune system (compared to standard AutoTuning) is that the Procede's autotuned UT and IC adjustments are only applied when meth is flowing (and, obviously, on top of Map2 UT and IC settings). If meth were to be disabled, the car would run on Map1 UT and IC settings and with no active autotuning.

In the datalogs below, I used Methanol Autotuning to "dial in" my idea map2/methanol map settings. I started off with BOTH my map1 (pump gas) AND map2 (meth map) set very conservatively (UT=13.5psi, IC=40%). Then I just did a bunch of 3rd gear pulls on the highway and let the Procede automatically adjust my Map2 settings until aggression target was reached. Note: It was unnecessary to start off with both map1 and map2 settings being the same.

Note: If I weren't demonstrating how this worked, I would have started with map2 set to be more aggressive and closer to what one would expect for a methanol map (UT=16-17psi, IC=0-20%). This would have reduced the amount of runs necessary to get to the final autotuned settings.

Notice that when methanol isn't flowing, the car runs the standard 13.5psi/40% IC through the entire log. But in the portions that when meth is flowing above the threshold, the UT and IC values ramp gradually to 17.6psi and 0% IC respectively. That's ~70whp/70lb-ft of torque gained through autotuning alone. No user input required
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      06-29-2010, 02:45 PM   #2
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Analysis:

Notice that towards the midpoint of the runs, aggressive started to creep and hit the target value of 2 for a moment. This was because the engine was getting heat-soaked for all the back to back runs. Once I allowed for a few more seconds between runs, aggression immediately dropped back down and then only started to climb up towards the end once boost was in the 17-18psi range (and IC at 0).

The nice thing about AutuTuning is that it automatically compensates for such changes in conditions/driving characteristics. It will also automatically compensate for changes in:
-meth/water ratio
-nozzle size
-fuel quality
-nozzle designs
-nozzle location
-FMIC efficiency
-etc,.

And it will help prevent those nasty over-aggression conditions that, when coupled with high boost, can crank piston ring lands and require a 10k-15k motor rebuild

Shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 06-29-2010 at 03:08 PM.
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      06-29-2010, 02:48 PM   #3
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Shiv, that log looks pretty damn amazing!
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      06-29-2010, 02:48 PM   #4
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Sick!
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      06-29-2010, 02:55 PM   #5
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70whp and 70 lbs of torque!!!! Wow...time to order meth now!
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      06-29-2010, 03:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chingy24 View Post
70whp and 70 lbs of torque!!!! Wow...time to order meth now!
The gains granted by methanol, all things equal, aren't quite that high. I was just comparing the power gains granted by autotuning. The before (pre-autotuned) settings were set conservatively (only 13.5psi) which is why the gains were so big. Meth tunes are usually worth 40-50whp when tuned to the same level of aggression as a no-meth tune... all other things equal.

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      06-29-2010, 03:13 PM   #7
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awesome Shiv cant wait to try this out
so you would not recommend to set highest boost settings past 18 psi on pump plus meth with upgraded turbos?
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      06-29-2010, 03:13 PM   #8
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Nice, but i checked my email and didnt see a new file. What gives!!!
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      06-29-2010, 03:19 PM   #9
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Thanks the explanation Shiv....40-50 is alot still!!! ARe your kit's still on back order?
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      06-29-2010, 03:20 PM   #10
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Outstanding!! I need this...
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      06-29-2010, 03:24 PM   #11
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Send a message via AIM to themyst
Ok I'm impressed. Give it now.
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      06-29-2010, 03:29 PM   #12
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i want it as well even if the V4 is still in custom and my car is missing the engine
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      06-29-2010, 03:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita View Post
awesome Shiv cant wait to try this out
so you would not recommend to set highest boost settings past 18 psi on pump plus meth with upgraded turbos?
On pump+meth, i'd be more concerned with the effects of running into fuel system limitations than anything else. A little less so when running race gas+meth. So with pump+meth, i'd set the max boost value to 18-18.5psi. On 110oct race gas+meth, I see no problem with raising it to the maximum setting (20psi). But first I'd like to implement the built-in wideband AFR safety net. That may take a few more days to do.

Shiv
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      06-29-2010, 03:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chingy24 View Post
Thanks the explanation Shiv....40-50 is alot still!!! ARe your kit's still on back order?
We build them to order so you could say that they are always on back order. But we should be caught up this week with all pending orders. So the earlier you place the order, the earlier you will get it. We are telling people 2 week lead times.

Shiv
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      06-29-2010, 03:40 PM   #15
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Shiv, will we be able to use decimals in the autotune parameter in this PM/AT release? Or was this already addressed and I forgot to read the changelog?
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      06-29-2010, 03:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
Shiv, will we be able to use decimals in the autotune parameter in this PM/AT release? Or was this already addressed and I forgot to read the changelog?
The use of decimals for aggression targets will have to wait for when we re-vamp the user software. At that point, we'll add in some other stuff as well. And make it netbook friendly.

Shiv
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      06-29-2010, 03:53 PM   #17
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Pretty interesting stuff here Shiv, good work.
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      06-29-2010, 04:03 PM   #18
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Anyone in VA with a methanol AT car? I need a ride badly. Can you feel the transition to meth? Oh I might want a fix now, even though I swore off drugs
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      06-29-2010, 04:58 PM   #19
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so where do we download the new meth maps???
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      06-29-2010, 05:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOST3D View Post
so where do we download the new meth maps???
There are no new maps. Just new firmware which enables full autotuning when running in progressive meth mode. I'll have the new firmware posted up either tomorrow or the day after. Just have to do some more testing before it gets posted up.

Shiv
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      06-29-2010, 05:57 PM   #21
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Does this mean Shiv is a meth pusher?
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      06-29-2010, 06:10 PM   #22
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Very nice. This is what I have been waiting for. Nice to know if your meth hangs out in a vented tank for a few weeks and starts to degrade that the procede can adapt to that circumstance.
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