E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Off-Topic Discussions > Official pics of the new F10 M-Sport, Saloon.



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-01-2010, 03:55 PM   #45
Irnbrukid
Major
 
Drives: RepMobile
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Scotland

Posts: 1,337
iTrader: (0)

I see the usual bun fight has ensued!

Not everyone is going to like every single car that is made, there is some things i like about the car (F10) and others i dont but best to wait and see one in the flesh before you make a final decision.

The wheels dont look that great and has been mentioned they look small for 19" but think this is down to the size of the car.

Some people seem to forget that over the years cars are getting bigger and bigger if you go back to e39 its similar in size to an e90 now. Thats why it think the wheels are increasing in size, so that the car still looks in proportion.

With smaller wheels cars can look under wheeled, the first time i seen the e90 when it was just released it was on 17's and looked like a big sofa on a wee set of castors it just didnt look right.

@ Matt think its more to do with the suspension setup on the Sline Audis rather than the size of wheels. the crash and ride poor on 18" also.

The 19" wheels on the e60 were a lovely wheel and the drove better with them compared to the 18" runflat in both a handling and comfort sense. The biggest problem for me just now is runflat tyres thats why i think i will move to another marque of car next... unless i buy a bmw that comes with normal tyres as standard.

And dont say just change the runflats, if your spending 40k on a car it should comes with some decent rubber!!
Irnbrukid is online now   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2010, 03:59 PM   #46
335diesel
Brigadier General
 
335diesel's Avatar
 
Drives: 335d Touring
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cornwall

Posts: 4,009
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I thought things had shifted and now RFTs are an option on most BMWs?
__________________


E91 335d SE Touring

Also Land Rover Puma Defender 110 XS station wagon
335diesel is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2010, 04:03 PM   #47
jwbmw
Major
 
jwbmw's Avatar
 
Drives: Jaguar XF S
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: West Midlands

Posts: 1,386
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
I thought things had shifted and now RFTs are an option on most BMWs?
No, RFT's fixed spec and they have over softened the springs on the F10 SE to compensate.
__________________
Going out with a BAN now that the forum has become Chav Ville. Fair well the early adopters.
Jaguar XF 3.0D S
Gone: E92 335d
jwbmw is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2010, 04:09 PM   #48
///ajd
Colonel
 
///ajd's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 330d Touring
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ...

Posts: 2,297
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
Why on earth would a car roll and wallow more on 17s than on 19s? The suspension is the same.
Higher profile tyres have sidewalls that are not as stiff relative to those on otherwise equivalent lower profile tyres - hence they will deform more. This is felt as roll and more movement (wallow) between the wheels and the road. Pretty obvious really, but then again I'm an engineer

Quote:

Of course people will go out of their way to justify buying sodding expensive 19s over smaller wheels but really, it's about looks.
I don't know about others, but I don't feel I have to justify buying them. I like them, and they were cheap.

Quote:
A couple of quotes from auto engineers:

A larger, heavier tire and wheel assembly will gain more kinetic energy
from each short bump it encounters, which the suspension then tries to absorb without passing on to the passenger cabin.
So smaller tires give a smoother ride.
When tires bounce, a given amount of suspension hardware can put them back in contact with the road quicker if they have low mass.
So smaller tires give better handling.


And

Larger diameter, wider wheels may raise your cred in the McDonald's drive-thru queue, but they'll also blunt your car's turn-in, knock the edge off the handling, spoil the ride and cost you a fortune in new tyres.
My 17" wheels were actually fractionally a larger diameter (1.2mm) than my 19"s - but for all practical purposes the 17, 18 and 19" wheel/tyre combos I've used have had identical diameters. I think you maybe getting confused about the differences in handling of wheel/tyre combos that have different rolling radii.

I have driven my car on 17, 18 and 19" wheels, and it does affect handling - I'm not making it up! Turn in is definately better with lower profile tyres - & best of all with RFTs.

I think you should buy those 18" 162s you are after - they are the best SE wheel and will look great on your car and will improve the way it handles. You will notice this. If you get non-RFTs the difference in ride will be hardly noticable over the 17"s.

///ajd is offline   France
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2010, 04:11 PM   #49
335diesel
Brigadier General
 
335diesel's Avatar
 
Drives: 335d Touring
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cornwall

Posts: 4,009
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
jw - that sucks big time.

Wonder what will happen with the new 3er?

Surely thousands if not millions of BMW customers have complained about RFTs? Have the inventors of RFTs got some dodgy pics of BMW and Audi Directors that they will threaten to sell to the media if their the cr4p tyres aren't used? I can't think of any other reason to use them.

IMO the E9* is generally a big improvement over the E46 apart from the RFT tyres. In the case of E39 to E60, I think the ride REALLY suffered from RFTs - my inlaws 535d Touring was utterly hideous riding on them - so they sold it pronto.

/// - if the radius of a 19" tyre is the same as a 17" one then why on earth do they "fill" the arches so much more?
__________________


E91 335d SE Touring

Also Land Rover Puma Defender 110 XS station wagon

Last edited by 335diesel; 07-01-2010 at 04:18 PM.
335diesel is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2010, 04:24 PM   #50
///ajd
Colonel
 
///ajd's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 330d Touring
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ...

Posts: 2,297
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
/// - if the radius of a 19" tyre is the same as a 17" one then why on earth do they "fill" the arches so much more?
Its an optical illusion - the silver alloy part of the wheel is bigger, the tyre is smaller - so it looks bigger - the overall diameter is the same.

///ajd is offline   France
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2010, 04:31 PM   #51
beemerbird
Major General
 
beemerbird's Avatar
 
Drives: Merc diesel
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Yorkshire

Posts: 7,953
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
You still RS5ing? If not, can you please get a new 911 Turbo S? I cannot believe how bonkers quick they are for under 130k!
Need to have a test drive when they finally come out and see how the new lot bugger about with our department.

Oh yes, predictably I have perused over the Turbo S and it's rather tasty is it not. Need to win the lottery me thinks.
beemerbird is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2010, 05:07 PM   #52
Irnbrukid
Major
 
Drives: RepMobile
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Scotland

Posts: 1,337
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
IMO the E9* is generally a big improvement over the E46 apart from the RFT tyres. In the case of E39 to E60, I think the ride REALLY suffered from RFTs - my inlaws 535d Touring was utterly hideous riding on them - so they sold it pronto.
Why didnt they replace them with normal rubber, transforms the car and the best thing about the e60 was it had room for the space saver, where the new cars dont..
Irnbrukid is online now   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2010, 03:47 AM   #53
335diesel
Brigadier General
 
335diesel's Avatar
 
Drives: 335d Touring
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cornwall

Posts: 4,009
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irnbrukid View Post
Why didnt they replace them with normal rubber, transforms the car and the best thing about the e60 was it had room for the space saver, where the new cars dont..
You know some people want everything new and factory made? That's them. It was also a while back when BMW dealers were muttering about non RFTs voiding insurance/warranties, etc. The i-drive also self destructed so that on top of the RFTs and it was sent back to the dealer after three months. They now have an X5 on 19s...

Interesting about radii but surely tyres come with different profiles? It's not a set ratio. And go to a tyre dealer - the 19s look like truck tyres, the 17s don;t. You are also looking at fat rubber on 19s - say 265 so the profile has to be very slim to make it the same as a 17" 225/45.
I may be wrong on this but I can't see how "arch filling" 19s are the same diameter as 17s.

/// - I do like those wheels a lot - I saw a 325i with them (black E91 like that one) and really did like them but there are a few issues:

1) I have pretty new tyres all round - ditching them would be silly
2) I can choose any tyre I want - IMO CS3s are the best (Evo agrees too -they thrash all other tyres in this months issues) - even the tyres on those 162s are a lot harder to source. On 19s you simply cannot get the "best" tyres. The best tyres to me have more of an impact than the radius.
3) The wife loves the ride/handling of the car as it is - this is a proper petrol(or actually diesel) head wife who learned to drive in a new Scooby Turbo wagon and tested a new (at the time) Supra aged 18.
4) I love the sleeper quality of the car. A mate has been a few times to sort my bike out - we got talking about cars (he's not really into them at all) and when I mentioned that ours has nearly 300bhp he was utterly gobsmacked - I love that about the car. It's very very unusual I know, but the sleeper element is something I really do like and it's also useful down here in Cornwall where shoutyness is frowned upon.
5) Although they are small, I actually really like my wheels - slightly dished and with nice spokes and detail, the look pretty good from a angle IMO. Even Carlos likes them! They are "the wheels" on the Wonder Wheels box too...

If the car had come with 162s though, I'd be happy but to pay 1200 for wheels and another 800ish for tyres doesn't really add up just to make it "look better" and slightly ruin the sleeperness (!) of it. They would be MUCH easier to clean though!!

I also love driving the Jimny because it's SO uncool that it's almost cool. Especially in full hairdresser top down mode!

Weird I know but then you all know I'm a bit special needs...
__________________


E91 335d SE Touring

Also Land Rover Puma Defender 110 XS station wagon

Last edited by 335diesel; 07-02-2010 at 04:21 AM.
335diesel is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2010, 04:10 AM   #54
rogerxp
Major General
 
rogerxp's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 Comp Pack / QQ+2 Tekna
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

Posts: 5,915
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
I know everyone wants to look like they drive a Touring
Remind me what you drive

For the record I like the new 5er. Yes it has it's quirky bits but, like most other BMWs (X1 excluded) it'll be a grower so may as well accept defeat now Definately needs BIGGER WHEELS though
__________________
Current -: MW E92 M3 Competition Pack / Qashqai+2 Tekna 1.6dci
Gone -: 370Z GT Roadster; BMW X3 3.0d xdrive M Sport; E46 330i M Sport Coupe; Mazda RX8 231; Nissan 350Z GT Roadster; BMW E90 330d M Sport; BMW E92 335i SE; Maserati 4200; Nissan 350Z; Honda S2000; Astra Coupe Turbo; Ford Probe
rogerxp is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2010, 06:44 AM   #55
///ajd
Colonel
 
///ajd's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 330d Touring
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ...

Posts: 2,297
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
Interesting about radii but surely tyres come with different profiles? It's not a set ratio. And go to a tyre dealer - the 19s look like truck tyres, the 17s don;t. You are also looking at fat rubber on 19s - say 265 so the profile has to be very slim to make it the same as a 17" 225/45.
I may be wrong on this but I can't see how "arch filling" 19s are the same diameter as 17s.
Try this link.

http://www.etyres.co.uk/tyre-size-calculator.htm

Put in your tyres - 225/45/17, and then 255/30/19. The difference in diameter is 2mm. My 17s are 205/50/17, which are actually bigger than the 19s by 1mm. Obviously the ratio can vary - but the idea is you make sure you get tyres/wheels that are the same radii for a given car otherwise the speedo wouldn't read right etc.!

Bear in mind the diameter of any given wheel will change by around 12.8mm from full tread to legal minimum, hence the difference between 17 and 19 diameter above is negligible.

Last edited by ///ajd; 07-02-2010 at 06:50 AM.
///ajd is offline   France
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2010, 06:57 AM   #56
Irnbrukid
Major
 
Drives: RepMobile
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Scotland

Posts: 1,337
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
You know some people want everything new and factory made? That's them. It was also a while back when BMW dealers were muttering about non RFTs voiding insurance/warranties, etc. The i-drive also self destructed so that on top of the RFTs and it was sent back to the dealer after three months. They now have an X5 on 19s...

How can they say non runflat tyres can void your warranty when you can have them as an optional extra (saloon), thats complete nonsense from them i think if they were took up on it the would back down.

The great thing about the e60 was you had room for a space saver wheel if you choose to, you dont have that option now which is crap.
Irnbrukid is online now   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2010, 07:16 AM   #57
rogerxp
Major General
 
rogerxp's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 Comp Pack / QQ+2 Tekna
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

Posts: 5,915
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irnbrukid View Post
How can they say non runflat tyres can void your warranty when you can have them as an optional extra (saloon), thats complete nonsense from them i think if they were took up on it the would back down.
Think Matt mentioned it was a while ago there was more nervousness (and lack of knowledge) from Dealers about changing RFTs to non-RFTs. Things have moved on a bit now. Lower powered E90's have non-RFTs as an option.
__________________
Current -: MW E92 M3 Competition Pack / Qashqai+2 Tekna 1.6dci
Gone -: 370Z GT Roadster; BMW X3 3.0d xdrive M Sport; E46 330i M Sport Coupe; Mazda RX8 231; Nissan 350Z GT Roadster; BMW E90 330d M Sport; BMW E92 335i SE; Maserati 4200; Nissan 350Z; Honda S2000; Astra Coupe Turbo; Ford Probe
rogerxp is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2010, 07:35 AM   #58
335diesel
Brigadier General
 
335diesel's Avatar
 
Drives: 335d Touring
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cornwall

Posts: 4,009
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Irn - as Roger says, this was a few years back when dealers didn't know what was happening.

/// =- 205/50 is quite slim/high profile. Mine are 225/45 which probably makes a noticeable difference compared to 205/50s. Cheers for the link though! Anywhere I can find weights of tyres? Seems very tricky to find any.

You are right though - 19s (255/35) are only 4mm larger than my 17s with 225/45s.

Edit - tried 255/35 again and the difference is now 27mm compared to 225/45 - over an inch. Hmmm...
__________________


E91 335d SE Touring

Also Land Rover Puma Defender 110 XS station wagon

Last edited by 335diesel; 07-02-2010 at 07:44 AM.
335diesel is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2010, 08:09 AM   #59
///ajd
Colonel
 
///ajd's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 330d Touring
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ...

Posts: 2,297
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
Irn - as Roger says, this was a few years back when dealers didn't know what was happening.

/// =- 205/50 is quite slim/high profile. Mine are 225/45 which probably makes a noticeable difference compared to 205/50s. Cheers for the link though! Anywhere I can find weights of tyres? Seems very tricky to find any.

You are right though - 19s (255/35) are only 4mm larger than my 17s with 225/45s.

Edit - tried 255/35 again and the difference is now 27mm compared to 225/45 - over an inch. Hmmm...
This is proving quite tough to get to grips with isn't it.

255/35/19 is not the right size and is TOO BIG for a E9x. The correct rear size is 255/30/19. You can also use 265/30/19 at the rear as it is almost the same diameter. The fronts are 225/35/19. The whole point is that you choose a tyre that keeps the diameter the same.

My last car had 225/45/17s with Contis, Goodyear and Falkens, and I used to use the 205/50/17s on the same car. There was not alot of difference as the side wall is only 1.5mm deeper on the 205 over the 225 - they are pretty much the same size tyre, just a bit narrower. I chose them exactly because they are the same diameter as 225/45/17s.

Regarding weights - these are not easy to come by - but the general rule is that tyres weigh less proportionally than wheels - hence moving to bigger wheels / smaller tyres to keep the same diameter is likely to increase the unsprung mass, but it depends on which wheels etc.
///ajd is offline   France
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2010, 08:16 AM   #60
335diesel
Brigadier General
 
335diesel's Avatar
 
Drives: 335d Touring
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cornwall

Posts: 4,009
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I guess I just prefer smallish tyres - the same (but a totally different thing) on my MTB - I love 1.8" rubber, most get massively fat tyres.

30 is VERY low profile indeed. Just not my cup of tea at all.

Cheers for the tyre size education though - clearly a hole in my knowledge.

I think 18s are fine/good on an E9* - I think 19s are a step too far and for once an E90Post "player" agrees with me...
__________________


E91 335d SE Touring

Also Land Rover Puma Defender 110 XS station wagon
335diesel is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:58 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST