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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > 335i limp mode party at the track



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      05-24-2011, 01:39 PM   #287
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Its all about driving style as well. If i short shifted at 6K and kept a good watch on my car stock, I can run all day long. Of course that also means I cant push the car as hard as I want and probably some slower laps to avoid going over temp.

I think the goal of most people here, is to be able to push a car as hard as we possibly can and still avoid these issues.

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Originally Posted by 968tomr View Post
I have followed with great interest the cooling issues of these cars. I can tell you that I "know somebody" (ahem) who instructs for PCA and BMWCCA and drives his 335i in stock configuration (manual, zhp with stock oil cooler) on a track quite often. Not once has the car experienced a temperature related limp mode (has limped for injectors, also for vanos solenoid).

This "individual" was able to do a 55 minute session at Mid Ohio (until he ran out of gas) in 70 degree ambient without any limps or temperature issues at all. All the while turning reliable 1:45s.

Is this a problem that has just not been experienced yet? Wouldn't a temperature fault result in the temperature icon, or does it just go into reduced power mode?

Thanks for your feedback, as I am not trying to troll, but want to understand what the difference must be, or how the "individual" I am speaking of has garnered the grace of (insert religious reference of your choosing, I will go with Vishnu) to avoid these issues thus far.

-Tom
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      05-24-2011, 01:59 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by zsapphire7 View Post
Its all about driving style as well. If i short shifted at 6K and kept a good watch on my car stock, I can run all day long. Of course that also means I cant push the car as hard as I want and probably some slower laps to avoid going over temp.

I think the goal of most people here, is to be able to push a car as hard as we possibly can and still avoid these issues.
+1
It's all about driving at 9/10s or 10/10s consistently. You can cruise all day long at 4th gear if you want to, or you can drive at 9/10s for 1-2 laps and do 3-4 cool down laps and keep going all day long. 968tomr, ask the "individual" about his driving patterns, if he's running a 55 minute session he has a cool down cycle (both mental/physical as well as for the car)
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      05-25-2011, 04:17 PM   #289
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      05-25-2011, 06:56 PM   #290
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Any of you guys who have changed your coolant / radiator flush want to chime in on how difficult this is to do. Can it be done easily at home? Is it just easier to take it to an indy shop? If so, what did you pay? Thanks-
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      05-26-2011, 05:51 AM   #291
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I attended a trackday last week which overall was a very rewarding experience. Unfortunately I can't provide empiric data to the thread, as the weather conditions were changing from hot and sunny to pouring rain to sunny/humid. It was also my first time at this track so I really didn't push the car to the limits.

The circuit is rather short, with lots of 2nd and 3rd gear corners and only one real straight line where my top end was 110 mph.

With the results we've seen in this thread in the back of my head, I had a constant eye on the oil temp gauge and short shifted rather oftenly. Still, oil temps would hover between 250 and 265 degrees. This is with the stock OC and the AR OC in front of the radiator.

Per session I only drove 3 to 4 hot laps in a row and a cooldown lap, with half an hour rest time in between runs.

To be honest, it bugged me quite a bit that things would get that hot even without really pushing the car to the max. It's annoying when you have to keep a constant eye on running temps instead of being able to focus on the driving only.

So to improve things I just ordered the ER Sports series oilcooler, which replaces the stock unit and which can be used in series with the AR OC. In a few months I will then upgrade to the M-tech front with foglights deleted to accomodate the larger airducts from the 335is.

I really hope these annoyances will then be solved.
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      05-26-2011, 10:06 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraRacer13 View Post
Any of you guys who have changed your coolant / radiator flush want to chime in on how difficult this is to do. Can it be done easily at home? Is it just easier to take it to an indy shop? If so, what did you pay? Thanks-
For me, I wanted all the fluid out, and the system cleaned, so It was quite complicated. I went to my local shop. They used the machine to suck out all the fluid, not just the stuff in the radiator. They also ran the system with just the cleaner and water, and turned on the heater to make sure it cleans even the core in the dashboard. Then drained it, flushed with water, then filled again with 30% coolant 70% water + water wetter.
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      05-26-2011, 10:10 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobahn335i View Post
So to improve things I just ordered the ER Sports series oilcooler, which replaces the stock unit and which can be used in series with the AR OC. In a few months I will then upgrade to the M-tech front with foglights deleted to accomodate the larger airducts from the 335is.

I really hope these annoyances will then be solved.
Without monitoring your water temps, your annoyances may not go away. Take a look at the chart to see how folks have been running their coolant at the track.
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      05-26-2011, 10:55 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
For me, I wanted all the fluid out, and the system cleaned, so It was quite complicated. I went to my local shop. They used the machine to suck out all the fluid, not just the stuff in the radiator. They also ran the system with just the cleaner and water, and turned on the heater to make sure it cleans even the core in the dashboard. Then drained it, flushed with water, then filled again with 30% coolant 70% water + water wetter.


now that sounds effective... and a ton of fun
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      05-26-2011, 01:01 PM   #295
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Stock oil cooler? Note that virtually all (except one) reports above are for cars with upgraded oil coolers. At that point, yes, water temps are the main focus

At 290F you're already at reduced power even if you don't see an engine malfunction error. Get your water temps next time (with and without heater on) you're out there so we can add more good data to the chart.
Getting to 290 on the oil only happened the one time, the others it was nearer to 270 when it limped, leading me to believe its the water temps. I have a bavtech at home, so hopefully it has some codes there to read.

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Search this thread. I posted on how to read water temps from the car. Don't waste your money.
Will do, thanks for the tip...I forgot about there being the hidden temp gauge
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      05-26-2011, 01:03 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
For me, I wanted all the fluid out, and the system cleaned, so It was quite complicated. I went to my local shop. They used the machine to suck out all the fluid, not just the stuff in the radiator. They also ran the system with just the cleaner and water, and turned on the heater to make sure it cleans even the core in the dashboard. Then drained it, flushed with water, then filled again with 30% coolant 70% water + water wetter.
thank you sir.
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      05-26-2011, 01:29 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by raceyBMW View Post
Getting to 290 on the oil only happened the one time, the others it was nearer to 270 when it limped, leading me to believe its the water temps. I have a bavtech at home, so hopefully it has some codes there to read.



Will do, thanks for the tip...I forgot about there being the hidden temp gauge
Perhaps a little help?? I'm having trouble finding this "hidden temp gauge" post
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      05-26-2011, 02:10 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raceyBMW View Post
Getting to 290 on the oil only happened the one time, the others it was nearer to 270 when it limped, leading me to believe its the water temps. I have a bavtech at home, so hopefully it has some codes there to read.e
Sadly,not much info there. If your limp mode was oil or water related all you'll get from BT is your mileage, rpm and ambient at the time of the event.
there's very good info on this thread on how to measure and reduce water temps, let us know how it goes next time you're out there.
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      05-26-2011, 02:25 PM   #299
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Guys don't put too much faith in our analog OEM oil temp guages. I posted about this on this thread with pics, of what happened to the E90 M3 the day I raced. The OEM oil guage, and the aftermarket one installed in his car, read two different temps. Just FYI.

Last edited by Turkeybaster115; 05-27-2011 at 01:05 PM.
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      05-26-2011, 02:30 PM   #300
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oh if thats it then i know exactly what youre talking about... You had me thinking there was some other gauge and that i was going crazy! hah
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      05-27-2011, 09:38 AM   #301
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oh if thats it then i know exactly what youre talking about... You had me thinking there was some other gauge and that i was going crazy! hah
I believe he was referring to being able to read your water temps via the in-dash display. This is crucial info that we've started collecting on our chart above.

To find out how to do this: from the top right menu -> Search this Thread -> Advanced -> put his name in and "hidden" or "water" in the text field and voila.
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      05-27-2011, 11:02 PM   #302
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Hey PeterM1, I just bought and used a R5/FCX-3 scan tool to read my codes after last weeks track event. You were right. None of my limp modes was due to oil, or water temps. I had two codes for vanos solenoid: 2A87, and 3100, and one for HPFP: 29dc. I'll be fixing these before my next track event in August. So this is proof positive that the AR design oil cooler is effective.
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      05-28-2011, 12:23 AM   #303
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Hey PeterM1, I just bought and used a R5/FCX-3 scan tool to read my codes after last weeks track event. You were right. None of my limp modes was due to oil, or water temps. I had two codes for vanos solenoid: 2A87, and 3100, and one for HPFP: 29dc. I'll be fixing these before my next track event in August. So this is proof positive that the AR design oil cooler is effective.
August? Where's the love for the sport???

Yep, my last limp was due to 2A87 too. It's the bottom solenoid, ~$100 from tischer and a very easy DIY, if you don't want to deal with the dealership but it looks like you may have HPFP issues anyway. Good luck with the replacements.
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      05-31-2011, 07:18 PM   #304
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So not much talk about the CP-E style of adding an inline oilcooler to the stock unit. Is it safe to assume a small (10-15") oil cooler on top of the FMIC isn't going to help much?
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      05-31-2011, 08:45 PM   #305
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So not much talk about the CP-E style of adding an inline oilcooler to the stock unit. Is it safe to assume a small (10-15") oil cooler on top of the FMIC isn't going to help much?
For racing applications during the summer, it probably won't do squat, because it differs so much from the traditional oil cooler design. Just my 2cents.
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      06-01-2011, 10:35 PM   #306
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I had a conversation with my mechanic today and since I am not seeing high oil temps with the STETT OC, we decided to just add 1 bottle of MoCool to the coolant, not 2 and not do a flush with D water. He used it on his Audi with great results. Hopefully no limp mode Monday at the track. Forecast for only 90 here in TX that day.
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      06-01-2011, 10:41 PM   #307
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I had a conversation with my mechanic today and since I am not seeing high oil temps with the STETT OC, we decided to just add 1 bottle of MoCool to the coolant, not 2 and not do a flush with D water. He used it on his Audi with great results. Hopefully no limp mode Monday at the track. Forecast for only 90 here in TX that day.
"only" 90?

1 bottle will help but you're not going to get the max benefit as you're diluting for 50% of the volume, still better than nothing. Curious to see if your water temps (and their variation from straights to turns, then to pit-in) will be similar to what I saw recently. Good luck on Monday!
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      06-01-2011, 10:56 PM   #308
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On a track-related note, I had a brief chance to talk with the Turner team on "cooling" issues last weekend at the Grand-Am Rolex race. Note the dual-direct brake vents, they're swearing by them. Started to get into water temp/radiator talk but they had to prep the GT car (not the one in the pic) for the race and given the amount of probs they had, I left them alone after the race. I'll try to catch them this weekend at the Glen.


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