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      09-20-2011, 09:21 AM   #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
I've tracked a 335 and M3 during the Summer in 95+ degree heat and both have done well for me. One thing I do is not red line it all the time and it seems to help a LOT for engine temps. In the 335 I'd keep the revs to under 6,000 and in the M3 under 7,000 or less most of the time around a track. If there's a stretch that needs me to stretch to the red, I'll do it, but if it's not necessary to redline, I'll shift a little early.
My tires would get greasy before the engine would overheat. I'm not the fastest in my group, but definitely pass a few groups too.

Having said that, I've seem someone in a 335 go limp with 2-3 hot laps. I don't know if BMW put in lower temp cut off's for limp modes in the newer cars since our 335 is a 2007 model with an Auto/Sport.

.
I doubt anyone here is redlining a 335, it's counterproductive to do so. Power drops off considerably after 5500-5700 rpm.
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      09-20-2011, 09:26 AM   #684
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Originally Posted by zazzn View Post
Wouldn't a bigger Rad fix some of the overheating issues?
Fans are most effective below 35mph. Once the vehicle passes that speed the ram air effect on the radiator takes over completely, and the fan becomes useless. So, when in stop and go, we could definitely benefit from a more powerful fan, but at the track, it's completely useless.

"Q. Will the electric fans help keep my car cooler at highway speeds?

A. Generally, cooling fans do the most work at idle and speeds up to 35 mph. The faster the vehicle is moving the less important they become. At speeds over 35 mph, the ram air effect is much great than the efforts of the fan. If your car overheats at high speeds, it's probably not the fan."

http://www.a1electric.com/spal/faninfo.htm
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      09-20-2011, 09:42 AM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobahn335i View Post
Yes, automatic transmission cars are more prone to overheating than MT.

On my car the following budget went into cooling (approx prices incl. labour):

AR Design Oil Cooler 950 EUR
ER Sports Series OC 1400 EUR (including custom stainless steel lines)
335is Airducts 100 EUR

Next is the Performance Kit Radiator for approx 1000 EUR installed.

Still far away from $10k, so I guess that estimate includes suspension and power mods.

The PWR radiator costs $1000, but no one seems to have it installed so far. Would be great to see an actual customer review on this.
There's BMW promo pricing that just started. Unsure of the conversion but the power pack is $1199 usd now.

I too would like to see a review but I can't think of one person that had a retrofit. I'm guessing the vast majority of people with the BMW performance package bought it installed at factory. Then factor in the small amount of owners that track their car... Well be hard pressed to get a review anytime soon.

On another note, I attended Thunderhill again. Temps were 90-95 iirc. My oil temp hit 280 but never went limp. I may have experienced power loss but there was no half engine light and I never slowed down... And I'm AT. Was pushing pretty hard for (5) 25 minute sessions.

Cooling mods now consist of: 75/25 distilled water/coolant + water wetter, ETS 5" fmic, Vishnu pmw meth kit. This last mod might explain why I didnt feel power loss. Note, I had max boost set for 13.5 psi. Ill update the spreadsheet when I get a moment.
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      09-20-2011, 09:54 AM   #686
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I had another two track days recently at the Nürburgring in Germany, without any limp modes whatsoever.

However, outside temperatures were rather low (between 17 and 22 degrees Celsius / 62 and 71 degrees Fahrenheit), and it rained a bit frequently. It was therefor not possible to drive the car really fast and push the cooling to its limits.

Notwithstanding the above, I did push the car quite hard on the few dry laps I was able to do, sometimes 3 laps in a row (around 63 kilometers). The oil temperatures stayed below 130 degrees Celsius (266 Fahrenheit) all the time, the water temperatures went up until 104 degrees Celsius (219 degrees Fahrenheit) but usually stayed well below that (which may be a result of the Nürburgring Nordschleife track being a fast track and more air cooling opportunities than elsewhere).

My configuration for oil cooling:
- AR Design oil cooler (in front of the radiator)
- VK Motorwerks upgraded stock oil cooler with Setrab core

As this was mentioned here, I also had the AR Design aluminium radiator installed for a while. But aside from the fact that it did not fit properly (I had to have it rewelded), it also started leaking at the beginning of this year and I therefor tossed it out again.

A motorsport garage in Germany that I work with have developed an aluminium radiator as replacement for the stock plastic radiator with more or less double the cooling capacity, but same size as OEM (= no fitment problems). It's available for roundabout 1000 EUR. As I don't have water coolant problems right now I most likely won't buy it immediately, however.

Another warning for those with the AR Design oil cooler: I had a severe oil leak a few weeks ago due to one of the oil hoses of this oil cooler rupturing. Reason was that in spite of being protected against rubbing (by the mechanic doing the install on my car), they still came in contact with metal parts in the engine bay and were chafed through. I would advise replacing the hoses that are delivered with the cooler against more sturdy steel flex lines (which I have done now) that don't rub, don't distend due to oil pressure and won't leak. I will make a separate report on this with photos within short, in the technical section of this forum.

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      09-20-2011, 03:05 PM   #687
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Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
I had another two track days recently at the Nürburgring in Germany
I stopped reading right about here...you're one lucky guy!
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      09-21-2011, 04:12 AM   #688
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Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
I stopped reading right about here...you're one lucky guy!
I know! Still, I don't have as much time to drive there as I'd like, but it's sure practical to have it so close by (140 km).

Spa is the same distance, by the way. I'll probably drive there as well next year, should be interesting.

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      09-21-2011, 06:31 AM   #689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsbj View Post
Cooling mods now consist of: 75/25 distilled water/coolant + water wetter, ETS 5" fmic, Vishnu pmw meth kit. This last mod might explain why I didnt feel power loss. Note, I.




How you liking the pwm kit?
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      09-21-2011, 02:14 PM   #690
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damn, this sticky is crazy... i thought n54's hit limp mode only during the worst conditions and those with autos and no oil coolers. didn't realize even with an abundance of aftermarket bolt-ons for cooling, people still encounter this problem.

i track my n52 but was thinking of getting a 135i as a new daily with occasional track use but i'm now having 2nd thoughts. i take it e82 vs e90, no difference?
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      09-21-2011, 07:52 PM   #691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsbj View Post
There's BMW promo pricing that just started. Unsure of the conversion but the power pack is $1199 usd now.

I too would like to see a review but I can't think of one person that had a retrofit. I'm guessing the vast majority of people with the BMW performance package bought it installed at factory. Then factor in the small amount of owners that track their car... Well be hard pressed to get a review anytime soon.
Look for the 335is and 1M owners.. their engines are same as the N54 but with PPK
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      09-22-2011, 12:07 AM   #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken99 View Post
How you liking the pwm kit?
So far, I really like it. Really hard to find any downside besides, of course, initial cost and the hassle of removal/installation for warranty work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samchoi604 View Post
Look for the 335is and 1M owners.. their engines are same as the N54 but with PPK
Perhaps I'll peruse the 1m forums. I haven't seen anyone driving an iS chime in here.
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      09-22-2011, 03:13 AM   #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
Fans are most effective below 35mph. Once the vehicle passes that speed the ram air effect on the radiator takes over completely, and the fan becomes useless. So, when in stop and go, we could definitely benefit from a more powerful fan, but at the track, it's completely useless.

"Q. Will the electric fans help keep my car cooler at highway speeds?

A. Generally, cooling fans do the most work at idle and speeds up to 35 mph. The faster the vehicle is moving the less important they become. At speeds over 35 mph, the ram air effect is much great than the efforts of the fan. If your car overheats at high speeds, it's probably not the fan."

http://www.a1electric.com/spal/faninfo.htm
Yes I realize electric fans are not supposed to help over a specified speed since they simply don't spin fast enough. Mechanical engine fans flow MUCH more CFM generally which increase the point of where the air resistance is like 60MPH to overtake the fan. Regardless of that, I'm sure the 335 has electric fans, (like most modern cars) the main reason for overheating on the track for a rad I've found is that there isn't enough flow to cool.

You can bandaid this by doing one of the following

-Coolant additives like water wetter or less coolant
-Bigger rad for more heat capacity (usually more efficient as well at excavating heat)
-More air ducts to get more air on the rad
-Stronger electric fans to flow more CFM and evict the air at lower speeds (if I'm not mistaken no one is overheating on the straights but on the tight smaller turns where you are constantly slowing and speeding up)

Realistically, the next easiest thing after the additives would probably be changing to a stronger fan.

Does anyone know how much the stock fans flow? Also has anyone ever tried a push/pull fan setup meaning you have the stock pulling and you have another set pushing on the front (if there is room). Finally do the older engines in the E30 series with a mechanical clutch fan have anyway to be Frankenstein on to a N54? I'm all but sure this would solve the over heating issues on the track.

I guess it just bothers me that BMW... A well respected name on the track has issues like these....

Last edited by zazzn; 09-22-2011 at 03:20 AM.
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      09-22-2011, 01:28 PM   #694
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Interesting ideas for remedying the problem. I find it fascinating that the N55 doesn't suffer from the same limp mode issues as the n54, at least not on the same drastic level
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      09-22-2011, 02:10 PM   #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turugara View Post
Interesting ideas for remedying the problem. I find it fascinating that the N55 doesn't suffer from the same limp mode issues as the n54, at least not on the same drastic level
I tend to believe people on this thread are pushing harder than the average N54/N55 owner that may track once or on rare occasion.

Also, the N55 engine may be less susceptible to overheating but then again, they've only been around for a short period time so I don't think we have a true picture just yet as it's fairly common that people mod/push harder as time passes.
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      09-22-2011, 10:06 PM   #696
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If you read the article in this months Road & Track about lapping an Aston Martin Rapide for 24 hrs in Las Vegas, they also had over heating issues that were resolved if they shifted just 500 RPM sooner. That's a minor price to pay for not overheating, and probably why I never had any overheating problems on track with the 335 or M3.
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      09-22-2011, 11:35 PM   #697
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If N55 isn't over heating it could be due to the fact it's only got one snail... heating up 2 snails and all that iron then using water to cool 2 of them is gonna create some serious heat.

Turbos are heat magnets.
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      09-23-2011, 11:03 PM   #698
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Quick update, guys: Today I went ahead and installed the oem oil cooler in addition to the AR design oil cooler I retrofitted on my car a while back. Racing in 75-85F ambients with just the AR oil cooler yielded oil temps of 275+. The situation worsened if I shifted manually. After retrofit-installation of the additional oem oil cooler, oil temps seem to stabilize at 230-240F under normal driving. Formally it would be at 245-250. I'm really curious to see just how well it would perform in the heat, so I will probably do one HPDE in the summer. My next event is in mid october, but ambients will definitely be at or below 50F. anyways, here are some pics:





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      09-24-2011, 01:00 AM   #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
Quick update, guys: Today I went ahead and installed the oem oil cooler in addition to the AR design oil cooler I retrofitted on my car a while back. Racing in 75-85F ambients with just the AR oil cooler yielded oil temps of 275+. The situation worsened if I shifted manually. After retrofit-installation of the additional oem oil cooler, oil temps seem to stabilize at 230-240F under normal driving. Formally it would be at 245-250. I'm really curious to see just how well it would perform in the heat, so I will probably do one HPDE in the summer. My next event is in mid october, but ambients will definitely be at or below 50F. anyways, here are some pics:
Thanks for the posts and pics. I'm curious about your comment on manually shifting raising temps. Please explain.
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      09-24-2011, 04:06 AM   #700
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I was just reading about the BMW performance stage 2 upgrade. Has anyone ever added the stronger electric fan they offer?
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      09-24-2011, 10:29 AM   #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
Quick update, guys: Today I went ahead and installed the oem oil cooler in addition to the AR design oil cooler I retrofitted on my car a while back. Racing in 75-85F ambients with just the AR oil cooler yielded oil temps of 275+. The situation worsened if I shifted manually. After retrofit-installation of the additional oem oil cooler, oil temps seem to stabilize at 230-240F under normal driving. Formally it would be at 245-250. I'm really curious to see just how well it would perform in the heat, so I will probably do one HPDE in the summer. My next event is in mid october, but ambients will definitely be at or below 50F. anyways, here are some pics:





Confused how you did this. Can you explain a little more. Where is the AR core now?
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      09-24-2011, 01:12 PM   #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
Quick update, guys: Today I went ahead and installed the oem oil cooler in addition to the AR design oil cooler I retrofitted on my car a while back. Racing in 75-85F ambients with just the AR oil cooler yielded oil temps of 275+. The situation worsened if I shifted manually. After retrofit-installation of the additional oem oil cooler, oil temps seem to stabilize at 230-240F under normal driving. Formally it would be at 245-250. I'm really curious to see just how well it would perform in the heat, so I will probably do one HPDE in the summer. My next event is in mid october, but ambients will definitely be at or below 50F. anyways, here are some pics:
Did you also consider going with a bigger core?

For me the oil temps - even with the AR Design oil cooler in front of the radiator plus stock oil cooler - were still too high. When I was driving really fast (i.e. more than 230 km/h for a while), it went immediately to 130 degrees Celsius (or slightly over that; 266 Fahrenheit). I've therefore upgraded the stock oil cooler with the VK Motorwerks kit and a Setrab core. Now the oil temps never reach 130.

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      09-24-2011, 10:21 PM   #703
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Originally Posted by Stangorang View Post
Confused how you did this. Can you explain a little more. Where is the AR core now?
Its still on.
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      09-24-2011, 10:24 PM   #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
Did you also consider going with a bigger core?

For me the oil temps - even with the AR Design oil cooler in front of the radiator plus stock oil cooler - were still too high. When I was driving really fast (i.e. more than 230 km/h for a while), it went immediately to 130 degrees Celsius (or slightly over that; 266 Fahrenheit). I've therefore upgraded the stock oil cooler with the VK Motorwerks kit and a Setrab core. Now the oil temps never reach 130.

Alpina_B3_Lux
I find that odd, because I didn't think that the VK Motorwerks core was that much bigger than stock. Oh, well, At least I know for sure that it will be cooler than my last setup which was just the AR oil cooler.
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