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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > 335i limp mode party at the track



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      06-12-2013, 10:34 AM   #947
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Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
I wouldn't worry about A6's either way, they are one-day tires at a racetrack.
Well yeah....Guess I'll have to look into a used set and try em out!
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      06-12-2013, 02:08 PM   #948
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Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
1. Change your radiator. By 90K miles, mine was leaking, and clogged, despite spraying water at it.
2. Try and hose down your radiator (actually your condenser, but the radiator will get hit right behind it), before each session. That will radically lower your water, and even oil temps b4 you go out for a session. My water gets down to 59F to start the session. By the time I'm ending the session, I'm at 107F. This was suggested by The Hack, and it has eliminated the issues for me. I'm running Cobbs 100 Octane race map btw.
Thanks for the suggestions! I only have 45k miles on my car, so shouldn't have any problems with the radiator at this point I wouldn't think. Plus the coolant I drained out looked pretty clear.

I will definitely try #2 next time. Do you just take a spray bottle to it? Or do you really need access to a hose? Just glad to know I am getting there on coolant temp management finally. Its so frustrating when you are in your groove on the track and then the car pull power and throws a CEL, just ruins concentration.

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      06-12-2013, 03:14 PM   #949
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Originally Posted by raceyBMW View Post
Thanks for the suggestions! I only have 45k miles on my car, so shouldn't have any problems with the radiator at this point I wouldn't think. Plus the coolant I drained out looked pretty clear.

I will definitely try #2 next time. Do you just take a spray bottle to it? Or do you really need access to a hose? Just glad to know I am getting there on coolant temp management finally. Its so frustrating when you are in your groove on the track and then the car pull power and throws a CEL, just ruins concentration.
Racey, depending on what year your car is, you might still want to chuck that oem radiator. Anyways, I use a hose at the track, and really hose it down. You can use water in squrit bottles too, but you have to make sure you really soak the whole front. I also get my intercooler, and oil cooler from under the wheel well. I even leave it wet before starting the session, as rapidly evaporating water, further reduces temps. I use a hose in tracks with a hose. Ones without, I just go ahead and run, because I don't really have that much of a problem with water or oil temps, after changing my water pump, thermostat, and radiator, recently.
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      06-13-2013, 05:32 PM   #950
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Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
17x9.5 ET35 Arc-8's with 5mm spacers. I'm also at 3.3 degrees negative camber now, so thats a consideration.
Can you post a picture of this setup (with the 275 tires), please?
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      06-13-2013, 09:12 PM   #951
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Originally Posted by vwong

Can you post a picture of this setup (with the 275 tires), please?
Already did, look at Apex's 17" track wheel thread it's recent in there. Got several pictures of the 275's up front.
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      07-15-2013, 11:47 PM   #952
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NCRC - Thunderhill 6-30-2013

I updated the spreadsheet with some results from running with NCRC at Thunderhill on June 30th. We had 5 run sessions of 20 minutes long. By 11am it was in the high 90's, and peaked out at 104F early afternoon. My fastest lap was 2:22, and by the last two run sessions was consistently running 2:24 to 2:26. As I was in the novice group (1 to 7 track days), I ran into a lot of traffic, so there would be the occasional slower lap.

I have the BMW performance aero kit installed, which has specific vents for the brakes, and the some larger venting, ostensibly for the oil cooler and radiator. When I saw the oil temp climbing up to 280F - 290F, I started shifting into 4th early. I never went into limp modes. I am not sure if I had some power reduction.

A friend of mine also with an E90, sport package, completely stock, went into limp mode once and threw a VANOS code in his fourth session, but cleared it and continued. No times for him, but he was running slower than me.

Some other interesting thermal data: with a thermal imaging camera we measured my tire temps to be 240F, equally distributed across the tire tread, and brake pad temperatures of 518F (max temp measurable by the camera) for the entire pad.
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      07-15-2013, 11:53 PM   #953
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Coolant temps at Thunderhill

I forgot, one other interesting data point: on the freeway drive to the track during the previous evening I monitored my coolant temp. It reached 105C in 95F weather and noticeable humidity (Central California humidity is bad, but not East Coast bad).

During the actual track day in 104F weather, my coolant temp never got over 98C. It seems that humidity had a large impact on coolant temperature.

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Originally Posted by macmacaman View Post
I updated the spreadsheet with some results from running with NCRC at Thunderhill on June 30th. We had 5 run sessions of 20 minutes long. By 11am it was in the high 90's, and peaked out at 104F early afternoon. My fastest lap was 2:22, and by the last two run sessions was consistently running 2:24 to 2:26. As I was in the novice group (1 to 7 track days), I ran into a lot of traffic, so there would be the occasional slower lap.

I have the BMW performance aero kit installed, which has specific vents for the brakes, and the some larger venting, ostensibly for the oil cooler and radiator. When I saw the oil temp climbing up to 280F - 290F, I started shifting into 4th early. I never went into limp modes. I am not sure if I had some power reduction.

A friend of mine also with an E90, sport package, completely stock, went into limp mode once and threw a VANOS code in his fourth session, but cleared it and continued. No times for him, but he was running slower than me.

Some other interesting thermal data: with a thermal imaging camera we measured my tire temps to be 240F, equally distributed across the tire tread, and brake pad temperatures of 518F (max temp measurable by the camera) for the entire pad.
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      09-16-2013, 06:02 PM   #954
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Spreadsheet updated. AR Oil Cooler doesn't do the job on the track.
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      09-17-2013, 12:07 AM   #955
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Limpmode has gone away for now

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Originally Posted by mid-corner fun View Post
I opened this thread almost 3 years ago, if I had followed the advice given earlier on (I'm slow, what can I say) I would have spent very little money on cooling compared to the time and money I lost fighting limp modes. Now that the 335i is retired from track duty, I'm only hoping I won't be as stubborn with the new car...

One more thing, if I were to do it again, I'd drop all the power mods and focus on balance and weight. For the last year or so I've disabled all power mods and yet my lap times have dropped significantly. Added bonus: no limp modes!

This car can do anything you want it to do at the track, the earlier you prepare for cooling the more on-track time you'll have
I was an early watcher of this thread with my 07 Dinan Stage 3 E92 6MT. I've got the Dinan intercooler and oil cooler and from my start in HPDE in 2011 through earlier this year I've had frequent limp modes both at the track and at autocrosses. Reading this thread, I had the VANOS cleaned, ran distilled water and water wetter, got rid of my DCI, short shifted at the track and, finally, had all the factory software replaced together with a Dinan reflash with the latest version. I installed a Quaife LSD in the belief that traction issues might be implicated since some limpmodes seemed to occur with wheelspin when the back end got light going over hills and on certain autocross maneuvers. All of these remedies over 2 years did not forestall my worst limpmode attack - multiple limpmodes in 7 of 8 sessions at Summit Main earlier this year when track temperatures were quite reasonable (70F ambient). At this point I got very close to chucking the 335i - but after this session we saw a VANOS code. Montclair Motorwerks NJ also noted reports of voltage irregularities, due to the age of the original OEM battery, causing various faults and software problems. So as a last gasp, we replaced both VANOS solenoids and installed a new OEM battery. Voila! I tracked the car at Summit Shenandoah several weeks ago with no performance problems. It was so sweet having the power I expected when I needed it. Unreal. I will be down at Lightning in October, so we'll see if this sticks.

Last edited by grennx; 09-17-2013 at 12:09 AM. Reason: title spelling error
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      09-17-2013, 08:02 AM   #956
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Originally Posted by grennx View Post
I was an early watcher of this thread with my 07 Dinan Stage 3 E92 6MT. I've got the Dinan intercooler and oil cooler and from my start in HPDE in 2011 through earlier this year I've had frequent limp modes both at the track and at autocrosses. Reading this thread, I had the VANOS cleaned, ran distilled water and water wetter, got rid of my DCI, short shifted at the track and, finally, had all the factory software replaced together with a Dinan reflash with the latest version. I installed a Quaife LSD in the belief that traction issues might be implicated since some limpmodes seemed to occur with wheelspin when the back end got light going over hills and on certain autocross maneuvers. All of these remedies over 2 years did not forestall my worst limpmode attack - multiple limpmodes in 7 of 8 sessions at Summit Main earlier this year when track temperatures were quite reasonable (70F ambient). At this point I got very close to chucking the 335i - but after this session we saw a VANOS code. Montclair Motorwerks NJ also noted reports of voltage irregularities, due to the age of the original OEM battery, causing various faults and software problems. So as a last gasp, we replaced both VANOS solenoids and installed a new OEM battery. Voila! I tracked the car at Summit Shenandoah several weeks ago with no performance problems. It was so sweet having the power I expected when I needed it. Unreal. I will be down at Lightning in October, so we'll see if this sticks.
Did you limp because of oil heat?
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      10-02-2013, 10:09 PM   #957
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No limp again at Fontana

I was at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana last week for a BMW CCA HPDE. No issues, no limp modes, codes, or anything. Oil temps were constantly 250F or below. Ambient temp was 85F, low humidity.
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      10-28-2013, 10:31 PM   #958
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...I will be down at Lightning in October, so we'll see if this sticks.
so… how was it? i'm very interested in getting a 335i as a DD/occasional track car but all these track related problems (although seems like they're getting worked out somewhat) really has me wondering. Thanks! i'd really like to stick with a BMW rather than go to an S4….

Matt
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      10-29-2013, 12:55 PM   #959
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so… how was it? i'm very interested in getting a 335i as a DD/occasional track car but all these track related problems (although seems like they're getting worked out somewhat) really has me wondering. Thanks! i'd really like to stick with a BMW rather than go to an S4….

Matt
The N55 has been better with cooling and reliability. I only owned the N54 so I can't speak from experience.
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      11-05-2013, 11:01 AM   #960
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Just a data point, at Motorsports Ranch Cresson on the 3.1 mile track, I was doing 25 minute sessions with the Cobb E30 race map (running E30-35) and water temps were oscillating between 101-106C, and oil temps were oscillating between 265-275F. This was while running 2:29-2:30 laps back to back.

I have the stett stage 2 oil cooler, 80-90% water (very little coolant), stock radiator, no additional radiator. Power mods are VRSF FMIC, DP's, and cat-back, and Vishnu DCI's.
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      12-29-2013, 04:56 PM   #961
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Hello all. I'm joining this thread not because I have encountered a limp mode but in anticipation of it. I plan on tracking my 335is 6mt sometime in the spring. It will likely be in the Northeastern USA, so temps shouldnt be too hot. Has anyone else with a 335is encountered limp mode or cooling issues after some hard driving?

I'm not planning on fiddling with the tune as of yet. And I know the 335is comes with some additional cooling as is...so I was just wondering if I needed to upgrade anything cooling wise before tracking it?

Slightly off topic question: short of getting the old M3 or new M4, what would people recommend for a daily driver that you can also track (preferably in the same category as BMW: luxury/performance)? I haven't heard too much about Audi or Mercedes in terms of dual use. I know a lot of people like to buy and modify slightly used porsches, but even used those things are expensive and costly to maintain.

The new 335 with the n55, though it looks cool, I've heard does not have nearly the same tuning potential as the old N54 335i. Is the N54 the best option for daily driving and occasional track use, despite its historical cooling issues?
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      06-22-2014, 09:58 AM   #962
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No limp mode with N55! 20 mins straight of track time, 4x yesterday High Plains Raceway and nothing past 250°. Running msport w/factory oil cooler. Was getting brake fade at the end of laps but nothing uncontrollable. Convinced she can be solid track car after yesterday
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