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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Not enough Air flow after BMS Dual Cone install 335i



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      12-15-2016, 11:43 AM   #1
ArmoDIY
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Exclamation Not enough Air flow after BMS Dual Cone install 335i

I recently got a message from one of my viewers, "Install Dual Cone Air Intakes EASILY! BMW (BMS Burger Motorsports)"

Q: "So after I installed the intakes, my car felt like it's not getting enough air. Would you know what can help."

A: "That could be caused by few reasons. My first guess is HPFP (High Pressure Fuel Pump fail) or failing injectors. There is also a possibly of the car having backed up cats (Catalytic Converters). Or it could simply be a from a bad oxygen sensor. Let me know when you find the problem. Cheers."

Does anyone have any other ideas?

Video Below:

Last edited by ArmoDIY; 12-15-2016 at 11:50 AM.
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      12-15-2016, 12:02 PM   #2
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I'm not sure I follow. How do you know it's not getting more air flow?
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      12-15-2016, 12:36 PM   #3
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The follow up comment was:

"I'm not sure yet what the problem is, but it wasn't my intakes because I put my stock air box back on and every time I would floor it, the car doesn't even pull for a sec but right away loses power and the check engine light comes on. The car is only at 58k miles"

Last edited by ArmoDIY; 12-15-2016 at 01:19 PM.
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      12-15-2016, 01:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmoDIY View Post
The follow up comment was:

"I'm not sure yet what the problem is, but it wasn't my intakes because I put my stock air box back on and every time I would floor it, the car doesn't even pull for a sec but right away loses power and the check engine light comes on. The car is only at 58k miles"
Well, if it was working well before, and he got a code after installing the part, it's due to his installation. By switching back to stock parts and still getting a code, that validates that it's most likely an install issue and he should recheck his work.
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      12-15-2016, 01:20 PM   #5
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Pull the code. Everything else is just a guess...
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      12-15-2016, 01:23 PM   #6
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these dual cone things are stupid. a hot air intake if you will. I'd put money on the fact that your factory airbox would operate with identical efficiency.
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      12-15-2016, 01:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianTSi View Post
Pull the code. Everything else is just a guess...
Pretty much. We can't help from here the information given is too broad and we can't see what was done under the engine bay. It's not the intakes though. It's something else in the installation/uninstallation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52 View Post
these dual cone things are stupid. a hot air intake if you will. I'd put money on the fact that your factory airbox would operate with identical efficiency.
These DCI have been selling since 2008. I can assure you that you are not the first to make this remark. There is plenty of data to support them though.

Your intercooler has the last say in Intake air temps. Although ideally cooler air is better (I agree since there is more oxygen). It's moot compared to the restrictions of the stock air box. The stock air box is like breathing through a straw. On a tuned vehicle with higher boost the stock intake cannot support the throughput. This is available in the data posted all over the forums and shows a direct translation to WGDC dropping after a DCI is used. Which supports the turbo's work less, more efficient and make more power.

When running a stock box, the turbo's need to spin more to achieve the same boost targets, which increases heat anyway, negating the cooler temps breathed in on the intake side.

There is also track data available with the DCI showing improvements in trap speed and or 1/4 mile times.

However, if someone wants to spend a few dollars the better intake these days is the AFE momentum GT.
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      12-15-2016, 02:55 PM   #8
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I would guess there is an unplugged vacuum line somewhere .
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      12-15-2016, 04:07 PM   #9
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The guy from Wastegate Warriors logged IATs with the DCI intake and Stock. The DCI intakes had higher temps in the summer time. Makes sense as it just sucks in hot engine bay temperatures.
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      12-15-2016, 04:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat_House View Post
I would guess there is an unplugged vacuum line somewhere .
I second that - could also be an unplugged connector on one of the sensors. Definitely give it another look once-over to make sure there are no lose vacuum hoses or wires/plugs.
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      12-15-2016, 04:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadeInPhilly View Post
The guy from Wastegate Warriors logged IATs with the DCI intake and Stock. The DCI intakes had higher temps in the summer time. Makes sense as it just sucks in hot engine bay temperatures.
Intake air temps are largely affected by the intercooler, his results are moot. In case people forget how a turbo charged system works- Your exhaust gasses spin a turbine, which spins the compressor.

It pulls in air and during the compression it creates a lot of heat. The only thing at that point that is going to affect your IAT is your intercooler. If you want lower IAT, focus on the intercooler.

In the mean time, the purpose and only purpose of an upgraded intake over stock is more throughput. Again, if you want an ideal intake with more throughput then stock and cooler air, AFE Momentum GT. There is data backing up the AFE momentum GT in the real world, track, dyno, ETC.

Again, there is plenty of data posted that a DCI will perform better in the real word, track, dyno, WGDC, ETC
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      12-16-2016, 03:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
Intake air temps are largely affected by the intercooler, his results are moot. In case people forget how a turbo charged system works- Your exhaust gasses spin a turbine, which spins the compressor.

It pulls in air and during the compression it creates a lot of heat. The only thing at that point that is going to affect your IAT is your intercooler. If you want lower IAT, focus on the intercooler.

In the mean time, the purpose and only purpose of an upgraded intake over stock is more throughput. Again, if you want an ideal intake with more throughput then stock and cooler air, AFE Momentum GT. There is data backing up the AFE momentum GT in the real world, track, dyno, ETC.

Again, there is plenty of data posted that a DCI will perform better in the real word, track, dyno, WGDC, ETC
I wouldnt even waste your time with these guys. There is a group of people that cant seem to grasp the concept of what is going on under the hood and still think a cold air intake is needed on a turbo'd car.

Even if there is a difference of 100 degrees between intake temps AT THE AIR FILTER, your turbo still heats that up to several hundred degrees and your intercooler is what ultimately determines your intake temps at the intake. you might see a difference of a couple degrees, but that is not noticeable
      12-19-2016, 01:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
I wouldnt even waste your time with these guys. There is a group of people that cant seem to grasp the concept of what is going on under the hood and still think a cold air intake is needed on a turbo'd car.

Even if there is a difference of 100 degrees between intake temps AT THE AIR FILTER, your turbo still heats that up to several hundred degrees and your intercooler is what ultimately determines your intake temps at the intake. you might see a difference of a couple degrees, but that is not noticeable
LOL. Why send air that is hotter than necessary to the turbos ? Cheap and lazy engineering; just bad practice. BMW engineers (all car manufacturers) must be wrong...

Go beat another dead horse.
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      12-19-2016, 02:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OffensiveDriver View Post
LOL. Why send air that is hotter than necessary to the turbos ? Cheap and lazy engineering; just bad practice. BMW engineers (all car manufacturers) must be wrong...

Go beat another dead horse.
Just stop. There is so much more than just efficiency when it comes to engineering automobiles, or any item for that matter. There are many constraints and guidelines that come into designing.
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      12-19-2016, 02:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Just stop. There is so much more than just efficiency when it comes to engineering automobiles, or any item for that matter. There are many constraints and guidelines that come into designing.
List them.
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      12-19-2016, 02:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OffensiveDriver View Post
List them.
Costs, materials, NVH, clean packaging, noise allowances, ease of manufacturing ability. Things of that nature, pretty simple stuff that I picked up when going to university for my BSME.

Also attached a link for sources.
http://engineering.missouri.edu/mae/...onstraints.pdf
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      12-19-2016, 02:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OffensiveDriver View Post
List them.
Price, EPA, driver comfort to name a few.
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      12-19-2016, 06:09 PM   #18
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I bet these are the people that say climate change is fake cause its cold outside.
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      12-19-2016, 06:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY View Post
I bet these are the people that say climate change is fake cause its cold outside.
The youtube viewer?
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      12-19-2016, 08:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Tasty View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY View Post
I bet these are the people that say climate change is fake cause its cold outside.
The youtube viewer?
No, these people that dispute results of a dci.
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      12-20-2016, 02:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Tasty View Post
Costs, materials, NVH, clean packaging, noise allowances, ease of manufacturing ability. Things of that nature, pretty simple stuff that I picked up when going to university for my BSME.

Also attached a link for sources.
http://engineering.missouri.edu/mae/...onstraints.pdf
DCI

Cost: Sure is cheap
Materials: Mostly the same
NVH: Definitely noiser
Clean packaging: Looks like shit
Noise allowances: WTF does that mean ?
Ease of manufacuring: Like I said, lazy

It seems like one thing they didn't teach you was critical thinking.
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      12-20-2016, 03:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OffensiveDriver View Post
DCI

Cost: Sure is cheap
Materials: Mostly the same
NVH: Definitely noiser
Clean packaging: Looks like shit
Noise allowances: WTF does that mean ?
Ease of manufacuring: Like I said, lazy

It seems like one thing they didn't teach you was critical thinking.
I was talking about OEM BMW, designing the Factory Air Cleaner Housing.

Pretty much done with you. My point is made and you are easily angered. Not going to bring myself to your level.
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