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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > Cooling, intake and ventilation



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      08-17-2010, 11:51 AM   #23
orionredwing
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Man, I've been debating on an intake for a long time now and have read all the threads. Unfortunately, most of those guys don't track their cars. Really interested in hearing which ones you guys went with cuz of the old hot air vs greater air flow debate.

I have a BMS DCI just sitting on the shelf, and am currently running the stock intake w/ a K&N drop-in.

Does more air flow beat the hot air it sucks in?
Or is cooler air w/ stock intake better?

Cuz from the FMIC threads, I've seen graphs showing cooler intake temps allow you to make the same power with less boost. So who cares if you're able to suck in more air if you lose out on power anyways from hot intake temps? If it's roughly the same power, isn't it better to run less boost cuz it stresses the turbos less?

Sorry if it seems like another of the same discussion, but as I said above, not too many people responding in those other threads track their cars (drag strip is a different scenario).
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      08-17-2010, 12:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orionredwing View Post
Man, I've been debating on an intake for a long time now and have read all the threads. Unfortunately, most of those guys don't track their cars. Really interested in hearing which ones you guys went with cuz of the old hot air vs greater air flow debate.

I have a BMS DCI just sitting on the shelf, and am currently running the stock intake w/ a K&N drop-in.

Does more air flow beat the hot air it sucks in?
Or is cooler air w/ stock intake better?

Cuz from the FMIC threads, I've seen graphs showing cooler intake temps allow you to make the same power with less boost. So who cares if you're able to suck in more air if you lose out on power anyways from hot intake temps? If it's roughly the same power, isn't it better to run less boost cuz it stresses the turbos less?

Sorry if it seems like another of the same discussion, but as I said above, not too many people responding in those other threads track their cars (drag strip is a different scenario).
I would probably recommend dci with meth to get best of both worlds. Im currently using UR CAI which is nice since it picks up air from the wheel well but will probably switch eventually to DCI + meth only so that i can fit a larger oil cooler in that well for the track. Else i would probably get meth alone with the UR CAI .

Overall I dont think Stock vs DCI or any intake for that matter will make any significant difference on the track. Theres just too much heat produced that eventually youll be running stock boost anyways. At best you would last a 10th of a lap more with more power....
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      08-17-2010, 12:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orionredwing View Post
Man, I've been debating on an intake for a long time now and have read all the threads. Unfortunately, most of those guys don't track their cars. Really interested in hearing which ones you guys went with cuz of the old hot air vs greater air flow debate.

I have a BMS DCI just sitting on the shelf, and am currently running the stock intake w/ a K&N drop-in.

Does more air flow beat the hot air it sucks in?
Or is cooler air w/ stock intake better?

Cuz from the FMIC threads, I've seen graphs showing cooler intake temps allow you to make the same power with less boost. So who cares if you're able to suck in more air if you lose out on power anyways from hot intake temps? If it's roughly the same power, isn't it better to run less boost cuz it stresses the turbos less?

Sorry if it seems like another of the same discussion, but as I said above, not too many people responding in those other threads track their cars (drag strip is a different scenario).
Real #s on CAIs would be great. MR5 has made his own and has some testing #s here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352077

Also this: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355372

And this: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ir+hot+intakes
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      08-20-2010, 03:20 PM   #26
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Check out the group buy on cp-e FMIC and oil cooler:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7792304
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      08-20-2010, 04:40 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canderson View Post
Check out the group buy on cp-e FMIC and oil cooler:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7792304
Cool thanks. It sounds like a good deal but I already have the AR OC and Code 3 IC. I would also want to see #s on the performance of both.
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      08-23-2010, 10:09 PM   #28
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Dinan looks like their intake gives about 5hp on a stock car.
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      08-23-2010, 11:08 PM   #29
jbass524
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The Dinan CAI is definitely nice. As we increase HP in our cars we have to increase air flow. The Dinan, AFE Stage3 and the BMW Performance Intake seem to be top of the heap.

Harold from HP feels the AFE Stage 2 is a great unit for about 370 WHP and under.

I would love to understand the correlation between HP and the amount of cold air required.

I would also like to understand the difference between oiled and dry filters.
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      09-14-2010, 11:18 AM   #30
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Ok, question. I think I originally purchased the M-Aero bumper. Is this the same as the M-Tech bumper? If not, will the BMW ducts fit the M-Aero bumper?

Here's a pic of my bumper for reference:



EDIT:
I guess these aren't the same. But I'm still wondering if the ducts will fit or not.
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      09-14-2010, 12:53 PM   #31
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There is a part # for the right side but BMW won't sell it separately. It's from the 335is. There is no left duct available but I think Marcel B is working on this for your bumper. search him and ducts.
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      09-21-2010, 10:17 AM   #32
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there us a left and right duct which fit one to one in the m-tech bumber. I think these however will not fit your bumper...
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      09-22-2010, 10:52 AM   #33
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marcel, do you have part numbers??
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      09-22-2010, 11:57 AM   #34
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Orion, The general consensus among tracking drivers is that more air is better for tuned cars. If that air can be colder that's even better yet. Breathing requirements seem to be in direct relation to tunes/boost. Mr. 5 setup his own intake with the stock box but modified it to have bigger diameter inlets. This made a good difference for him and he does track his car. Link to his thread on this and other great info on CAIs.

Pie in the sky is more, colder air. If you can't achieve colder then more air for tuned/boosted cars is better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgbuilder View Post
marcel, do you have part numbers??
Yes Marcel. The would be great since I'm probably raising my car by 1/2" I will probably get an M-Tech bumper. I would also like to add them to the list.

Last edited by jbass524; 09-22-2010 at 12:09 PM.
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      09-22-2010, 12:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
If you can't achieve colder then more air for tuned/boosted cars is better.

More air, yes. More hot air, not quite.

More hot air will drive water/oil temps higher which again, if you're at the limit, will only bring a limp mode faster. With ambient in the 90s I was able to consistently get more laps out of the stock intake compared to a DCI, all else being equal.
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      09-22-2010, 01:49 PM   #36
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check here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416186

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
Orion, The general consensus among tracking drivers is that more air is better for tuned cars. If that air can be colder that's even better yet. Breathing requirements seem to be in direct relation to tunes/boost. Mr. 5 setup his own intake with the stock box but modified it to have bigger diameter inlets. This made a good difference for him and he does track his car. Link to his thread on this and other great info on CAIs.

Pie in the sky is more, colder air. If you can't achieve colder then more air for tuned/boosted cars is better.



Yes Marcel. The would be great since I'm probably raising my car by 1/2" I will probably get an M-Tech bumper. I would also like to add them to the list.
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      10-08-2010, 01:14 PM   #37
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Today the 335is air ducts are installed and the difference is huge. The performance radiator gets a lot more air pushed through.
The duct for the oilcooler had to be adapted because I've the VK cooler (with Setrab core).
Becausr the vents didnot fit, I just had the foglights removed. for the moment OK for me. BMW de-programmed the foglights so I've no errorcode.
This weekend I will test the new cooling set-up on the Ring (where I normally hitting 140+ celcius in the second lap and have to go easy on the throttle not to hit limp mode)
I will post the results and pictures after this weekend.
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      10-09-2010, 12:25 PM   #38
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UPDATE:
the ducts make a big difference! of FMIC, power kit, vk cooler this makes the biggest difference. biggest bang for the buck:-)
I drove 5 laps in a row building up speed, last 3 full. oiltemps didn't go above 130 degrees or 265 Fahrenheit. On some parts of the track it dropped back to 250. Outside temp was 60 degrees and sunny. Not that jot but last year with the same temperature I was hitting 280 in the second lap.
It seems that finally U have a track worthy set-up!!!! so happy.
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      10-09-2010, 12:48 PM   #39
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Great news Marcel. Congratulations!
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      10-11-2010, 03:06 PM   #40
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new post with pictures here:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...44#post8142544
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      10-13-2010, 10:32 AM   #41
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How do the 335is ducts compare with the M-Tech spoiler? I have a pre-LCI and may not be able to adopt the 335is ducts (and would like to add the M-tech anyway).
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      10-13-2010, 01:21 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roamer View Post
How do the 335is ducts compare with the M-Tech spoiler? I have a pre-LCI and may not be able to adopt the 335is ducts (and would like to add the M-tech anyway).
the 335is ducts fit one to one in the pre-LCI M-tech bumper. No gaps. What will not fit are the vents. That is why I drive with the original pre-LCI M-tech vents without the foglight.
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      10-13-2010, 01:35 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
the 335is ducts fit one to one in the pre-LCI M-tech bumper. No gaps. What will not fit are the vents. That is why I drive with the original pre-LCI M-tech vents without the foglight.
How do the ducts attach to the bumper? I'm just wondering if this is really M-tech specific or can be adapted to the regular pre-LCI bumper (to which, M-aero is just an add-on for example)
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      10-13-2010, 01:38 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
How do the ducts attach to the bumper? I'm just wondering if this is really M-tech specific or can be adapted to the regular pre-LCI bumper (to which, M-aero is just an add-on for example)
what I know they are really M-tech specific. There are so many different ducts for the E9X, I doubt the one of the M-tech will fit non-M-tech. One of the issue will be the ducts for the brakes. With the M-tech bumper the ducts are coming form the center vent of the bumper, not the side-vents.
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