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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / Warranty > Calling All Redline D6 Users. ZF Fluid Change and Mechatronic Sleeve Question



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      12-13-2013, 04:56 AM   #1
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Calling All Redline D6 Users. ZF Fluid Change and Mechatronic Sleeve Question

I am going to be dropping the pan and changing the fluid on my 335i Xdrive.

I purchased 7 quarts of redline D6. I read it was great about a month ago when i ordered but come across many threads talking about bmw oem fluid or lifeguard.

Before I do this, anyone using D6 in their ZF trans 6AT? I just dont want to risk any problems.

Thanks guys.

EDIT: how would I know if my mechatronic sleeve is leaking once I drop the pan? Do i have to do anything extra to change it out once the trans pan has been dropped?
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Last edited by WhiteFury; 12-13-2013 at 05:22 AM.
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      12-15-2013, 01:27 PM   #2
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      12-16-2013, 11:03 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
Anyone?
Iíve had Redline D4 (ATF specific, believe D6 is technically an MT fluid) my E9x since the first month of ownership, and in my E8x for the last 3K miles. E8x gets beat on pretty good, and Iíve noticed generally smoother shifts and better cold start behavior. To that point I had run the OE lifeguard for 50K miles. Plenty of people have filled using D4; I would not hesitate to recommend it. OE fluid is a waste of money, and a ďlifetime fillĒ is utter nonsense. 40-50K intervals sounds about right to me for a full 6AT service (fluid, pan, gasket, new mech sleeve).

PS swap the mech sleeve regardless. Itís very cheap and takes an additional 10 minutes, could save you a headache down the road.
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      12-16-2013, 09:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
Iíve had Redline D4 (ATF specific, believe D6 is technically an MT fluid) my E9x since the first month of ownership, and in my E8x for the last 3K miles. E8x gets beat on pretty good, and Iíve noticed generally smoother shifts and better cold start behavior. To that point I had run the OE lifeguard for 50K miles. Plenty of people have filled using D4; I would not hesitate to recommend it. OE fluid is a waste of money, and a ďlifetime fillĒ is utter nonsense. 40-50K intervals sounds about right to me for a full 6AT service (fluid, pan, gasket, new mech sleeve).

PS swap the mech sleeve regardless. Itís very cheap and takes an additional 10 minutes, could save you a headache down the road.
So should I use the D6 as its listed on the website? Also how do I drain the torque converter?
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      12-16-2013, 10:05 PM   #5
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Enrita Dackelone you swapped with D4 yes? I've run it for awhile now in two cars with identical ZF boxes, no issues here.
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      12-17-2013, 06:11 AM   #6
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Sounds good. D4 isnt listed as shell compatible on redline's site. D6 is listed as for fit exactly for the ZF transmission part number.

Is there a way to drain the torque converter? I am going to drain, and fill with D6 fluid and then drive around for 20 miles and then change the pan/filter and refill again with D6 fluid.

Is that worth it?
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      12-17-2013, 12:32 PM   #7
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Forgot to ask since I have a xi model my trans brace is further back than a rear wheel drive does that mean I will be able to access the mechateonic sleeve easier? I heard guys had to remove the brace on rear drive models to access it.
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      12-17-2013, 04:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
Enrita Dackelone you swapped with D4 yes? I've run it for awhile now in two cars with identical ZF boxes, no issues here.
I have been using Redline's D4 ATF in my 6 speed manual trans 135i with no problems to date. Its been in there for about 35K miles now. I have been using Castrol SAF-XJ in my diff. But I will probably switch over to Redline this spring. Just for giggles and grins.

I know D6 is the fluid that Redline says to use... in BMW manual trans... but I have been running the D4 bc it is slightly thicker, and I think on the Autobahn thats better in my case. I am always blasting up to 285 kph when the traffic permits.
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      12-17-2013, 04:52 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I have been using Redline's D4 ATF in my 6 speed manual trans 135i with no problems to date. Its been in there for about 35K miles now. I have been using Castrol SAF-XJ in my diff. But I will probably switch over to Redline this spring. Just for giggles and grins.

I know D6 is the fluid that Redline says to use... in BMW manual trans... but I have been running the D4 bc it is slightly thicker, and I think on the Autobahn thats better in my case. I am always blasting up to 285 kph when the traffic permits.
Redline lists the D6 as being the exact part number for the ZF 6AT transmission also. Not just the manual. So I just wanted to make sure its good.
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      12-18-2013, 03:44 PM   #10
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I hate how the dealer says I'm nuts and not to touch the tranny fluid or transfer case. Why do they insist in trying to convince everyone of bs?
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      12-18-2013, 08:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
Redline lists the D6 as being the exact part number for the ZF 6AT transmission also. Not just the manual. So I just wanted to make sure its good.
No radical difference between the two, it's your call. I prefer the slightly higher viscosity of D4 for hard driving.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=777083

Plenty of people have run either in 6MT and 6AT boxes. Clean fluid is more important than anything.
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      12-20-2013, 02:52 AM   #12
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So I got about 1 quart of differential fluid out of the rear, i filled til it came out of the fill plug. Then re-installed.

I only got about 0.6-0.7 of a quart out of the front and then filled it til it spilled out.

The transfer case was stupid easy. Especially with a 14mm hex punched out and a 14mm open wrench.

I drained about .45 of a quart. Then filled til it flowed out which is a bit more than it had before hand. I ended up getting .55 into the transfer case.

OEM BMW oil for the transfer case
Redline 75w90 for the diffs

Doing transmission tomorrow.

I am going to drain and fill til it overflows, then warm up the trans and fill again til it overflows.

Going to drive it for about 50 miles. Then go home, drain, remove pan, install new pan, torque to spec, fill til overflow, and warm up tranny, then fill again.

I figure 2 changes will be best. Doing one changes out 7 of the 9 quarts. So roughly 22% of the old fluid is still there. By doing it again, you bring the percentage of old fluid around 6%.

I will post an update tomorrow.
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      12-22-2013, 08:10 AM   #13
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Fluid change went well. I dumped 4 quarts out of transmission, it was dark brown, then I pumped 4 in. Drove 35 miles or so, dumped the pan which was over 5 quarts. Fluid was still a dirty but cleaner then the first time, new pan/filter/gasket and 5.5 quarts of D6. That should take care of it.

I only got 1 quart out of the rear diff and .8 out of the front. The transfer case I drained about .4 or so roughly but put back about .5 - .6.

Car drives a bit smoother. Hopefully I will get a chance to do another drain and fill on the tranny in about 6 months, as well as do the diffs one more time.
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      12-22-2013, 12:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
Fluid change went well. I dumped 4 quarts out of transmission, it was dark brown, then I pumped 4 in. Drove 35 miles or so, dumped the pan which was over 5 quarts. Fluid was still a dirty but cleaner then the first time, new pan/filter/gasket and 5.5 quarts of D6. That should take care of it.

I only got 1 quart out of the rear diff and .8 out of the front. The transfer case I drained about .4 or so roughly but put back about .5 - .6.

Car drives a bit smoother. Hopefully I will get a chance to do another drain and fill on the tranny in about 6 months, as well as do the diffs one more time.
Most people just drop the pan and use about 6-7 quarts, but I can't tell you to be less thorough I suppose. Interested to see how you like D6 when the car gets pushed. What would be ideal would be identical ZF boxes started at the same mileage with D4 and D6, subjected to identical load over identical time frames.
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      12-24-2013, 01:20 AM   #15
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What I want to know is why they take D4 and make it thinner and then say its meets spec for the ZF 619HP trans. I make do a drain and fill possibly this spring for D4 as thicker is always better? Unless of course there is something in D6 that clearly is better than D4?


Edit: also compared to the factory oil that came out I didn't see much difference in the thickness between the two anyhow.
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      12-24-2013, 04:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
What I want to know is why they take D4 and make it thinner and then say its meets spec for the ZF 619HP trans. I make do a drain and fill possibly this spring for D4 as thicker is always better? Unless of course there is something in D6 that clearly is better than D4?


Edit: also compared to the factory oil that came out I didn't see much difference in the thickness between the two anyhow.
Whoa let's take a step back here, I didn't mean to push you away from D6 if you're otherwise happy with it.

D4 is just more viscous, in the 6AT (which gets very hot) i'm always inclined towards that over thinner and less shear resistant fluid. Both my cars get driven fairly hard, and DC winters aren't too absurd in terms of temperatures. So i'm comfortable with the cold start properties of D4. The only real difference is viscosity, it's not like we're talking about radically different fluids.

OP I think you will be just fine man. If you'd like go ahead and do a flush to D4 down the road, but bottom line is this: You have CLEAN fluid in your car. That puts you and your car in a better position for long-term reliability than 99% of owners out there. OE, D4, D6, the most important thing is that you are replacing the fluids every 40-50K along with a pan and mech sleeve swap. You should feel good about giving your trans some love, don't get too caught up in the exact fluid. D4 and D6 are fine so far as i'm concerned, just personally i'm biased towards the more heat-resistant fluid of the two.
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      12-24-2013, 04:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
I hate how the dealer says I'm nuts and not to touch the tranny fluid or transfer case. Why do they insist in trying to convince everyone of bs?
Just read back through this and found this hilarious. Would love to hear a dealer/sa/tech explain to us exactly why it is damaging or otherwise poor form to replace old fluids with clean fluids.

Seriously. Would love to hear them tell me that 80K AT fluid is preferable to clean AT fluid. Ridiculous.

Then again these are the same folks who tried to tell me that my DCI was causing AFR issues. Because we all know the DME targets lambda based on what brand intake is attached to the turbo inlets....It was hard to take them seriously after that
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      12-26-2013, 12:46 PM   #18
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Lol yea I agree.

I don't like redline D6. When I rev in 2nd gear to 4500 rpms and shift into 3rd in manual mode the car shifts into 3rd and makes to changes and then grabs. It isn't smooth and it's annoying.

I am gonna drain 4-5 quarts out and fill with lifeguard 6.

Also when I drain fluid cold and fi to hole it drips out and I run the car in neutral and shift through the gears until warm which Is about 30 minutes. Then I fill til it drips again but both times last week it seemed I had to really force extra in to get the amount back in that came out. Weird.

I don't like how it shifts with the D6.
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      12-27-2013, 09:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
Lol yea I agree.

I don't like redline D6. When I rev in 2nd gear to 4500 rpms and shift into 3rd in manual mode the car shifts into 3rd and makes to changes and then grabs. It isn't smooth and it's annoying.

I am gonna drain 4-5 quarts out and fill with lifeguard 6.

Also when I drain fluid cold and fi to hole it drips out and I run the car in neutral and shift through the gears until warm which Is about 30 minutes. Then I fill til it drips again but both times last week it seemed I had to really force extra in to get the amount back in that came out. Weird.

I don't like how it shifts with the D6.
Sorry to hear you didn't like D6, I've never ridden in a car with that in it so I can't provide anything useful or objective there.

Lifeguard (OE) is good fluid, though again clean fluid is what really matters in the transmission. I'm quite happy with D4, but to each their own.
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      01-06-2014, 08:08 PM   #20
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is this the proper OEM fluid to use? Is this the fluid that came stock in the car?

http://www.amazon.com/Sachs-Auto-Tra...zf+lifeguard+6
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      01-13-2014, 03:20 AM   #21
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Also I found this at advanceautoparts. Is this as good as lifeguard 6?

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...zoneAssigned=1
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      01-13-2014, 01:55 PM   #22
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Some have used Pentosin I believe…but yes Lifeguard is the OE fluid. For what it’s worth- every one of the fluids you have mentioned are less viscous, and less shear resistant than D4. None of them will hold up as well to heat and hard driving. All depends on what your goals are of course.
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