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      08-24-2010, 03:53 PM   #23
Archibald Donnington
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Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
if BMW makes a single 3 series in FWD, then BMW is going downhill. They already have AWD for snow.

This is short-term profiit smart, long term brand stupid.
F

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and thank god for that!! I could never own anything that looked like that fugly thing JHMO
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Originally Posted by Tiz113 View Post
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo
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Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ View Post
God dammit....... I'm buying a Mustang.


Imagine if Ford/Chevy/Dodge started selling FWD Mustangs/Camaros/Challengers........


Not only that, but these new car designs are FUGLY! BMW, get serious, this is some stupid shit.

I want to be proud of every BMW on the road, not just some of them.......


And really, a three-cylinder? I'm sure that has great mechanical balance! Hey guys, lets pay BMW prices for a Geo Metro that is trying to show off, sounds like a great idea!

If I wanted fuel economy, the Mini would not even be in question, even more so now with the great idea to give them even weaker engines and worse styling......

It's not like the Mini will be able to compete with a Prius, unless it goes diesel, a turbo-diesel I4 in a Mini would be much better than a gas turbo 3 IMO.....
Out of all of the forums I have eery been a member of, this is my least favorite. With comments like these, it is no wonder why every schmuck owns a BMW! Everybody makes fun of us! The future of automobiles is evolving as we speak into advancements far beyond our imagination. It is from future TERRORISTS like yourselves that can only hinder our progress as a WHOLE! Let's think evolutionary change as opposed to moronism.
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Originally Posted by E39hijinks View Post
lolwat. I guess this is why you're CEO of BMW North America, isn't it? Where's your car company?

Gotta love these fanboys who think every car has to be RWD, weigh 500 lbs, have 10,000 horsepower and have carbon fiber everything. Get over it. The world does not cater to fanboys. Fanboys make up a tiny, tiny fraction of the market.

Besides, nobody said BMW is replacing their entire lineup with FWD models.

BMW isn't going downhill, nor will they. It's the perception and the understanding of people like yourself that is.
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      08-24-2010, 04:01 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP View Post
I don't oppose FWD as much as some, but I do think it would be best left to the Mini Brands. Those that oppose it the most probably are American's, and honestly, we may not ever see these models in the US...

The only issue I have with Mini is that they are so damn "cutesy" if they infused more attitude in their design language, they wouldn't be so off-putting to me.
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      08-24-2010, 04:14 PM   #25
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Just split 1 series into 1 and 2 Series then

Like the 5/6...just split the Series up if you are going to have FWD and RWD. Make the 3/5 door hatches and any wierd stuff FWD 1 Series. Leave the Coupe and Convertyible and M cars RWD 2 Series.

Makes sense to me; never understood why the 3 Series was not split into the 3/4 as well.
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      08-24-2010, 04:35 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ArabianSensation View Post
Yes, FWD is slightly more efficient (1-2mpg) than RWD. Also, many buyers are in colder climates are put off by the RWD since the perception is that its much more difficult to drive in snow than FWD.
Actually, while there is an efficiency gain and a perception of better snow handling, the real reason for any vehicle to be FWD is for spatial layout of the vehicle and increased cabin room.

RWD platforms require a longitudinal engine mount, with the transmission at the rear of the motor, and a driveshaft and rear differential as well. All of these components are felt in the interior layout, with wide transmission tunnels, rear seat floor "humps", and fuel tanks straddling all of it. The result is a higher floor and much less cabin and cargo space.

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Both the BMW and Mini models are to be family- and leisure-oriented, boasting sliding rear doors, longer rear overhangs, and super-flexible interiors.
Think back to the original Mini. A great design, because the entire drivetrain is in front of the dashboard. From the dash back there is no hinderance on the interior, so you can have a tiny car with surprisingly good interior room. These new models are all about usability with the emphasis on efficiency, whether that be fuel efficiency or efficient use of space.
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      08-24-2010, 04:51 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by E39hijinks View Post
lolwat. I guess this is why you're CEO of BMW North America, isn't it? Where's your car company?

Gotta love these fanboys who think every car has to be RWD, weigh 500 lbs, have 10,000 horsepower and have carbon fiber everything. Get over it. The world does not cater to fanboys. Fanboys make up a tiny, tiny fraction of the market.

Besides, nobody said BMW is replacing their entire lineup with FWD models.

BMW isn't going downhill, nor will they. It's the perception and the understanding of people like yourself that is.

All I read was 20 new models in mini and bmw. Since there are only about 5 mini models that leaves 15 bmw FWDs. Not all will be 1 series, so I fear that it will trickle to the 3, as per Audi has FWD a4. This I don't want to see happen.
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      08-24-2010, 04:55 PM   #28
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Lol, some of you guys need to relax. This isnt changing anything....
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      08-24-2010, 06:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ View Post
God dammit....... I'm buying a Mustang.

Imagine if Ford/Chevy/Dodge started selling FWD Mustangs/Camaros/Challengers........

Not only that, but these new car designs are FUGLY! BMW, get serious, this is some stupid shit.

I want to be proud of every BMW on the road, not just some of them.......

And really, a three-cylinder? I'm sure that has great mechanical balance! Hey guys, lets pay BMW prices for a Geo Metro that is trying to show off, sounds like a great idea!

If I wanted fuel economy, the Mini would not even be in question, even more so now with the great idea to give them even weaker engines and worse styling......

It's not like the Mini will be able to compete with a Prius, unless it goes diesel, a turbo-diesel I4 in a Mini would be much better than a gas turbo 3 IMO.....
Couple things you need to get straight:

- BMW did not create those renders.
- Only uninformed morons buy Prius'.
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      08-24-2010, 07:56 PM   #30
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Anyone who has ever driven a FWD car with over 200hp and higher torque number will know why FWD is a major problem. There is something called torque steer and lack of traction in a straight line due to the natural tendency of a car tilting back during acceleration. Considering BMW makes a lot of diesels which produce torque down low, I don't see FWD being a very viable option unless the entire driving experience is dearly sacrificed. I see this being an option on the lower end models with smaller engines. (less expensive models)!

Two other advantages of FWD that I didn't see mentioned earlier are the fact that a FWD vehicle is always lighter than a RWD vehicle. In addition a FWD vehicle is cheaper to manufacture as there are less parts.
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      08-24-2010, 08:08 PM   #31
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ugly.
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      08-24-2010, 08:50 PM   #32
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Can someone clear this up for me? Why does BMW want this vehicle to be FWD? Is it more MPG efficient than RWD?
Primary reason is packaging. The complete drivetrain is under the hood.
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      08-24-2010, 09:01 PM   #33
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4 cyl turbos can be remarkable, but I would prefer a turbo 6 or a straight 6, but one thing that I can't live with is a FWD BMW. IMHO FWD doesn't make a car an ultimate driving machine, it didn't work for SAAB anyway. It puts too much weight on the front wheels and it makes you feel more removed from the driving experience. As long as I can keep a RWD I will, I'm not a fan of FWD or AWD (even X-drive)
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      08-25-2010, 02:42 AM   #34
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I think the 4 cylinder turbo 4s are nothing to worry about. They are awesome. Outside of north america, it is VERY normal to see E-Class barges powered by a 2.0Turbo 4. Even in Germany . . .turbo and 8 speed gear boxes . . .and a 4 can do a lot that it could not only a few years earlier.

As for the torque steer...yes it is an issue. I just dumped my 2.0 TT FWD. When it was chipped to about 250HP, torque steer was noticeable, but not crazy. At stock levels, the car was fully driveable at all but 90% throttle. A few more advances in suspension and bushings and even this is resolvable.

Now...having said all that ...do I appreciate the inline 6 RWD of my 3 series coupe? Oh yeah! Silky smooth!

But if you look at the market . . .this is a move BMW needs to make. More fuel efficient engines (translation turbo 4s and even less) and much lighter cars. I know that my coupe rides so nice in part because of its rather stocky weight....but other manufacturers will get the ride right on lighter and more efficient cars and leave BMW in the dust if it doesn't evolve proactively.

All that said...those renderings are scary car monstrosities!
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      08-25-2010, 07:14 AM   #35
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So BMW and Mini are going to start sharing platforms?
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      08-25-2010, 07:32 AM   #36
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i read recently that bmw was going to use .5ltr. cylinders. if true, then wouldn't the 3 cyl. displace 1.5ltrs. not 1.6?
Possibly, although certainly there is no hard and fast rule. The turbo V8, for example, is 4.4L. Though, yes, I've heard rumblings of a future 4.0L turbo V8 possibly replacing the current one.

Edit: Actually re-reading it, the three cylinder is a 1.5L. For the four cylinder, they are apparently going to have two different displacements: 1.6L and 2.0L. I don't know why they really need both a 1.5L and 1.6L engine, so who knows if it will really play out this way.

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btw dude, how did u excerpt that part of jason's quote from the segregated article???
Copy/paste.
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      08-25-2010, 07:42 AM   #37
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Render, based off artist's own imagination and nothing else really.
I actually like the rendering....
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      08-25-2010, 08:13 AM   #38
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Like the 5/6...just split the Series up if you are going to have FWD and RWD. Make the 3/5 door hatches and any wierd stuff FWD 1 Series. Leave the Coupe and Convertyible and M cars RWD 2 Series.

Makes sense to me; never understood why the 3 Series was not split into the 3/4 as well.
Agree.
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      08-25-2010, 09:07 AM   #39
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      08-25-2010, 10:12 AM   #40
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Quote:
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So BMW and Mini are going to start sharing platforms?
Start?

lol
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      08-25-2010, 10:50 AM   #41
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im not a fan of FWD, but if those cars drive like the current mini, its not gonna be that bad. the current mini is a blast to drive, so I dont have a problem w/ this

and if you do, easy solution, dont buy it....
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      08-25-2010, 01:00 PM   #42
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In addition a FWD vehicle is cheaper to manufacture as there are less parts.
That is the reason number 1 for FWD domination
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      08-25-2010, 01:07 PM   #43
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Render, based off artist's own imagination and nothing else really.
+1
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      08-25-2010, 01:47 PM   #44
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Wow, and I thought that it was Toyota who was [trying] to chase BMW, sad to see that it may turn out to be t'other way round...

The funny thing is that BMW has been resting on it's "premium brand" laurels garnered from years past for a while now - allowing others such as Audi, Lexus, and to a lesser extent Acura to catch them up.

I am not sure how a BMW-branded, FWD, 3-cylinder, down market econo-hatch will bolster the brand and the image that BMW relies on for so very much - the bottom line, yes, the brand - not so much...

While it is true that I am neither the president of "BMW NA" nor do I own my own car company, I have never once thought to myself, "you know what BMW really, really needs, what they are fundamentally lacking - a dozen or so down-market FWD econo-boxes", though that could just be down to my lack of vision.

Just as Taco Bell became the sole surviving restaurant in Stallone's Demolition Man ["All restaurants are now Taco Bell"] perhaps in the near future all cars will be either Toyotas or BMWs - all built on the same platforms of course.

Last edited by ihavedrivenanm1; 08-29-2010 at 12:29 AM.
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