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      01-11-2007, 11:12 PM   #45
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AFAIK, one of the great features about Blackberry is its relatively secure email sytem. My understanding is that the "PIN" feature of BBs is why the device is so widely used for gov't and business. Will iPhone take a chuck out of RIM sales on the non-consumer side???
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      01-11-2007, 11:27 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaws
AFAIK, one of the great features about Blackberry is its relatively secure email sytem. My understanding is that the "PIN" feature of BBs is why the device is so widely used for gov't and business. Will iPhone take a chuck out of RIM sales on the non-consumer side???
See my column re this and related issues incl. Cisco
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      01-11-2007, 11:40 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpira
See my column re this and related issues incl. Cisco
Thanks Jonathan. Great article.
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      01-11-2007, 11:46 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpira
See my column re this and related issues incl. Cisco

thank you Mr Spira, more info than what I catch in the morning journal here.

In your opinion, what will be the outcome between these 2?
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      01-12-2007, 12:14 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaws
Thanks Jonathan. Great article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck335i
thank you Mr Spira, more info than what I catch in the morning journal here.
Danke!


Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck335i
In your opinion, what will be the outcome between these 2?
Cisco sued because Apple failed to come to an agreement and sign the papers to license the mark. It would be folly for Apple to continue to ignore Cisco's ownership (along the lines of Phil's truly idiotic comment - I always thought Apple hired SMART people )

So the two parties really have to come to terms. Apple will probably pay dearly for this.

It's really Apple's fault. They fueled the rumor mills of an iPhone for years. They could have figured out a new name (you can brand ANYTHING) or they should have settled with Cisco much earlier and much more privately.
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      01-12-2007, 02:17 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob72
If you would have paid any attention, you might have noticed that my Location field was set to Belgium, which in case you flunked geography is in Europe.

And there are many more 3G phones available then three, have a look at http://www.gsmarena.com/ and use the phone finder on the left hand side of the page and select under "Network" the "GSM and UMTS (3G)" option.
If you now press Search, you will get several pages of phones. When I did it just now I got 204 phones returned, of which (if I narrow the search further) 163 are listed as being currently available.
Well if you weren't a total douche, you might point me in the direction of any sort of documentation that suggests Europe is even getting this version of the iPhone. Especially considering that this version is locked to Cingular, which I don't believe exists in Europe. So you can quit your bitching about a phone that isn't even for you. Comemierda.

kthx!
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      01-12-2007, 03:02 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx
Well if you weren't a total douche, you might point me in the direction of any sort of documentation that suggests Europe is even getting this version of the iPhone. Especially considering that this version is locked to Cingular, which I don't believe exists in Europe. So you can quit your bitching about a phone that isn't even for you. Comemierda.

kthx!
Well... Apple wants to sell 10 million of these suckers the first year, or 1% of the worldwide cellular market.

You can surely bet that it will be available in Europe...
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      01-12-2007, 03:10 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx
Well if you weren't a total douche, you might point me in the direction of any sort of documentation that suggests Europe is even getting this version of the iPhone. Especially considering that this version is locked to Cingular, which I don't believe exists in Europe. So you can quit your bitching about a phone that isn't even for you. Comemierda.

kthx!
Sorry buddy. Need to jump in here. Not the argument, but a bit of tech info!!!

Cingular is GSM, the GLOBAL STANDARD for MOBILE Communications. (Groupe Systeme Mobile if you fancy it in french)

Cingular is just a GSM operator, therefore the phone can be configured to work with ANY GSM NETWORK via ssoftware/firmware.

Apple have already confirmed it will come to Europe and guess what, Cingular ain't here.

We will get this version of the iPhone, although it won't be available long before the upgraded 3G handset emerges.

Have to say though, it was a surprise to me that they didn't include a 3G chipset from day 1. Must have been to keep costs lower as Qualcomm charge a fair bit for licencing their technology. The cost of the devce is already high, so they have done certain things to keep costs down.
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      01-12-2007, 05:38 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx
Well if you weren't a total douche, you might point me in the direction of any sort of documentation that suggests Europe is even getting this version of the iPhone. Especially considering that this version is locked to Cingular, which I don't believe exists in Europe. So you can quit your bitching about a phone that isn't even for you. Comemierda.

kthx!
Hey buddy, get a clue as you clearly have no idea of what your talking about.
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      01-12-2007, 08:25 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjdavies
Sorry buddy. Need to jump in here. Not the argument, but a bit of tech info!!!

Cingular is GSM, the GLOBAL STANDARD for MOBILE Communications. (Groupe Systeme Mobile if you fancy it in french)

Cingular is just a GSM operator, therefore the phone can be configured to work with ANY GSM NETWORK via ssoftware/firmware.

Apple have already confirmed it will come to Europe and guess what, Cingular ain't here.

We will get this version of the iPhone, although it won't be available long before the upgraded 3G handset emerges.

Have to say though, it was a surprise to me that they didn't include a 3G chipset from day 1. Must have been to keep costs lower as Qualcomm charge a fair bit for licencing their technology. The cost of the devce is already high, so they have done certain things to keep costs down.
I'd like a link, please. As far as I am aware, there has been no timeframe has been touched upon by Apple execs as to the release of the 3G handset OR a European release. And while you can bet that Europe will get SOME sort of iPhone, I haven't read ANYWHERE that it will be the same version that was announced for US release pending FCC approval, or with identical specs.
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I think that perhaps threads like this are the reason I don't visit E90Fanatics or E46Fanatics anymore.

Guy #1: "Hanz, I know zee window switches have always been next to zee shifter in zee 3er cars, but I think ve should move them to zee door!"
Guy #2: "But zee doors are already designed and ve do not have time to re-design them!"
Guy #1: "Just make it verk or you vill be verking over at VW!"
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      01-12-2007, 08:27 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic
Well... Apple wants to sell 10 million of these suckers the first year, or 1% of the worldwide cellular market.

You can surely bet that it will be available in Europe...
They didn't mention where they had to sell those particular suckers to conquer that much of the market. The word "worldwide" means nothing in this context, because the phone isn't even compatible with Japanese networks, and Japan is a major cellular market. It's also quite possible that they'll release the 3G version in Europe, and not the base GSM one.
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I think that perhaps threads like this are the reason I don't visit E90Fanatics or E46Fanatics anymore.

Guy #1: "Hanz, I know zee window switches have always been next to zee shifter in zee 3er cars, but I think ve should move them to zee door!"
Guy #2: "But zee doors are already designed and ve do not have time to re-design them!"
Guy #1: "Just make it verk or you vill be verking over at VW!"
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      01-12-2007, 08:28 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob72
Hey buddy, get a clue as you clearly have no idea of what your talking about.
Oh hey, obviously not, because, you know, I didn't watch the whole keynote, right?
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I think that perhaps threads like this are the reason I don't visit E90Fanatics or E46Fanatics anymore.

Guy #1: "Hanz, I know zee window switches have always been next to zee shifter in zee 3er cars, but I think ve should move them to zee door!"
Guy #2: "But zee doors are already designed and ve do not have time to re-design them!"
Guy #1: "Just make it verk or you vill be verking over at VW!"
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      01-13-2007, 09:30 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx
They didn't mention where they had to sell those particular suckers to conquer that much of the market. The word "worldwide" means nothing in this context, because the phone isn't even compatible with Japanese networks, and Japan is a major cellular market. It's also quite possible that they'll release the 3G version in Europe, and not the base GSM one.
I think that to sell 10 million phones at some $500-$600 a pop you will need some European GSM customers at least, regardless.
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      01-13-2007, 10:34 AM   #58
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The keynote mentions US launch June 07 / Euro Launch Q4 07 / Asia early 08.

It will be this version, argument over... if you need me too Ill get you a writen document. And I was also thinking it was retarded to not include a 3G radio, but those are power whores so maybe it makes sense in this WiFi covered world?

Nope still doesnt.
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      01-13-2007, 07:38 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx
Oh hey, obviously not, because, you know, I didn't watch the whole keynote, right?
You obviously missed Mr Jobs comment about the European launch being Q4 07. It was there...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jobs
10:48am - "When's it going to be available? We're shipping them in June -- we're announcing it today because we have to go get FCC approval... we thought it'd be better to introduce this today rather than let the FCC introduce this.
Europe in the 4th quarter of this year, Asia in 2008. "We've chosen Cingular."

"They're going to be our exclusive partner in the US -- it's a unique partnership though. We're going to be doing innovation together. We worked on visual voicemail, the first fruit of this collaboration. We'll be selling iPhone through our own stores and Cingular stores."
And, pretty sure he said 3G was coming too, but can't find that now. At the end of the day, it will come, as will a video calling version. The European/Asian market is too large to not develop a product carrying these features.

Engadget have a nice transcript:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/l...-jobs-keynote/

It is likely they will partener with one or two operators per country, with a bididng war to see who gets it first, as they will likley get at least 6 months exclusivity for the product.

Greeney, completely agree. I bet it's a power consumption thing. WCDMA is a complete bitch when it ccomes to battery life. Probably would have had to seriously inccrease the size of the handset to geet 3G on board with a reasonably good talk time. Apple wouldn't do that as they are the design whores of the CE industry (not that that is a bad thing as I type on my MacbookPro!) and have in this instance compromised some function in order to deliver a lot of form!

xxpaintmepunkxx, why did you not think the rest of the world would get this version? Think it was a US only thing? I do agree that Europe/Asia may get a WCDMA version before the US, but I think it is unlikley given the GSM thing hasn't even hit the FCC yet. Even if they do release a 3G version, it'll go through the same approvals for a worldwide availability.
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      01-13-2007, 08:49 PM   #60
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Quote:
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$500 to $600 depending on the model.
yeah and that's with 2 yr contract. It sucks - won't get one. Don't think it's worth that much. Pure hype - apple style...it's called ihype
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      01-14-2007, 01:58 AM   #61
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No, thats not with a 2-year contract. It's not going to have a contract price.
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      01-14-2007, 09:19 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myst
No, thats not with a 2-year contract. It's not going to have a contract price.
That is with a 2 year contract, there is just no subsided price with a contract.
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      01-14-2007, 09:44 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greeney
That is with a 2 year contract, there is just no subsided price with a contract.
Actually the $499 and $599 is subsidized. The real cost would be far greater.
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      01-14-2007, 11:33 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greeney
That is with a 2 year contract, there is just no subsided price with a contract.
There is no contract price. It doesn't matter if you sign a contract or not, the iphone will be $499 and $599. That is why you can go into the Apple store to buy one.
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      01-14-2007, 12:01 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myst
There is no contract price. It doesn't matter if you sign a contract or not, the iphone will be $499 and $599. That is why you can go into the Apple store to buy one.
Where you will have to sign a Cingular contract.
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      01-14-2007, 03:06 PM   #66
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Jspira, nice article. You're right that the iPhone won't be adopted at the company level (presumably the target audience for the article) for a variety of reasons, but especially because of it's lack of sync with Exchange servers (it will use a free push email service from Yahoo). The market for the iPhone is Moto RAZR, LG Chocolate, etc. owners. People who are willing to spend over the top for form/design. It will succeed in that market. The question is whether there will be trickle-down to the mid-range. You can bet on that I think since the phone market is all about next years model and turnaround. So Apple will do what every other phone maker does and release cheaper versions at the same time as upping the ante on the top-range (quite the opposite of companies like BMW where the low end is covered almost exclusively by used-car sales).

The similarity with the LG KE850 is more superficial. LG is unfortunate in having to go head to head with Apple's phenomenal hype but even with a 2-3 month lead, the LG will inevitably be compared with the Apple phone and will be found lacking (Apple does know interfaces). There is also the iPod effect since the iPhone is, in essence a video iPod nano (I bet they'll announce a version of the iPhone without the phone in the next month or so).

As for the trademarking issue, it's yet more hype. Cisco was actually delinquent in their demonstrated use of the trademark so only the lawyers will benefit. Apple Computer fought Apple Corps three times, lost twice won once. Makes no difference. On the website there is a little Apple symbol before iPhone and in 5 months it could be released at the Apple Phone and no one would care.

As for integration with cars, that's covered by BlueTooth and I can just imagine the accidents caused by people looking at an entirely tactile-deficient cell phone like the iPhone. It's bad enough with current button-adorned phones. If you want to use a phone in your car, leave it to hands-free BlueTooth, please.....

Finally, I don't think the Ford/Microsoft announcement for Sync will do much for Ford's fortunes.....
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