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      04-04-2014, 05:58 PM   #1
Drock28
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So I gave in to KwV1

after a long ordeal.. and a stupid amount of time obssessing over this, I have ordered a set of KwV1 for 2009 E92Xi..

I have literally gone nuts over the past few weeks figuring out what to do..
acutally since I bought my car in Feb..
I always lower my cars, so as soon as I got it, I went straight into researching what suspension to do..

man the Xi has been a headache to say the least..

first just wanted to do Springs and perches.. but this would still not fully correct the front gap..

then researched the hell out of the SonicTuning kit..I made a thread on them..I actually ordered a kit 2 weeks ago, but there was a ton of confusion with them and the order got cancelled.

then more research on the FortuneAuto kit.. etc. etc..

to now finally giving in to the V1's. and thats partly because a shop in my area had a good deal on them.. cheaper then me ordering from the US and dealling with shipping, duties, fees etc..

overall the FA kit, is probably the best application currently for the Xi cars.
but they would have been more expensive for me to get them to montreal.

all in after install and alignment, it will cost me ~$2200 just to lower my car. its pretty ridiculous actually..thats the way I see it. yes the Kw's are beyond better then stock suspension, but im not really concerned about performance, for me it was purely just to get the car level and remove the front gap..

yes, there are spring/strut combos, but that cost min $1000. so at that point I prefer to at least be able to adjust height.

I would have liked to have the dampering adjustment that Sonic and FA offer.. but both those kits have little issues, that were driving me nuts..

so my end decision was to spend a little more for the Kw's, then what I was going to pay for the Sonics.

install, lower to desired height and forget it..

thats my story lol..
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      04-04-2014, 07:40 PM   #2
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i had nearly an identical process as you. i was dead set on just going with eibach pro and koni struts at first, and then i kept reading about issues with the shocks bottoming out, the springs being softer than oem XI springs, still dealing with rake.. so i decided to go with coilovers. Was very tempted by the sonic tuning kit but i just couldn't convince myself to pull the trigger. i put coilovers on 3 other cars in the past, and the last time i put on cheaper coilovers that didn't have a good warranty, i had a lot of issues. Coupled with the fact that i got kw v1's shipped to my door for 1250 and i still get an additional 100 off with the rebate and the choice became pretty clear. the kw's came in the mail earlier this week, can't wait to throw them in. still have to order new mounts and stuff, make sure i don't have to go in there twice.
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      04-04-2014, 08:29 PM   #3
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where the hell did you buy V1 shipped for $1250???

I paid $1599 Canadian +tax, so $1840 total.
for Canada this is very cheap.

install and alignment will cost me ~$375

so all in $2200.

I know it's going to be good but still can't believe I spent this kind of cash just to lower my car???

also I missed the march 31st deadline for the $100 mail in rebate.
I was very pissed about that!!!!

what do you mean you're going to buy new mounts?
do you mean top hats ?

there is nothing new required to install this kit.
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      04-04-2014, 08:47 PM   #4
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$1599 is about standard and almost all shops can give you that price in Canada. I think the lowest I've seen them go for in Canada is $1299 on sale, but forgot which shop offered that. I'm pretty sure most shops can offer $1399 or $1499, although you may have to ship. The shops in Ontario have more leeway.

I'm still in the current situation and I really want dampening adjustment. There are times when I have to drive people that are sensitive, so I need to set it to softest setting. I think I'm going to go for the FA ones since they offer more dampening than Sonic's and seem to go a lot lower too.
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      04-04-2014, 09:31 PM   #5
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I also settled on kw v1. I originally wanted a spring and shock combo but 1250 for v1 and rebate was too tempting. Can't wait to install them! What's your opinion on the ride quality?
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      04-04-2014, 09:53 PM   #6
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I have not installed yet. literally just ordered today.
probably have them installed but late April.

for price this is the cheapest I could find in Montreal.
one shop quoted $1950, another $1687 etc.
the best price I found in the US was $1338.
but after shipping, duties, exchange just abit more.
so I just ordered from my local shop.

still reading and obsessing more, I read something about the end links.
since kwv1 doesn't come with new endlinks, that after you lower it will cause stress on the sway bar using the oem endlinks. meaning the swaybar is flexing.

yet another issue I'm discovering now, it's like a bottomless pit.

does anyone know more about this or had any issues?
I don't want to have to buy new fcuking endlinks now!! up to this point in all my reading of xi cars using v1, I have not read anyone reporting issues with the endlinks??

to my understanding V1 should be install and that's it!

Last edited by Drock28; 04-04-2014 at 10:01 PM.
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      04-04-2014, 10:11 PM   #7
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I'm not sure about the endlinks but I just installed mine last week. You will not regret it
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      04-05-2014, 12:00 AM   #8
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Need longer endlinks when lowering a car. Go get some online for the front and rear for about $150. If you have load on the bar the car will be much harsher over imperfections than it should be.
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      04-05-2014, 03:59 AM   #9
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This is most likely gonna be my story lol.
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      04-05-2014, 06:36 AM   #10
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I'm in the middle of this exact same story. Returned the Bilstein sports, selling the Eibachs and going with the V1s. The "i springs on xi" thread talked me out of it after reading every thread 10 times and driving myself crazy.
Then thought about going with ZSP springs...and just decided to do it right the first time.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=857285

There is some excellent info in there from thegrinchboy and ajsalida that needs to be reviewed by anyone considering a strut/spring swap on an xdrive car.

Last edited by SLOWER; 04-05-2014 at 06:42 AM.
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      04-05-2014, 09:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
Need longer endlinks when lowering a car. Go get some online for the front and rear for about $150. If you have load on the bar the car will be much harsher over imperfections than it should be.

well im glad im not the only one having gone through all this..

now regarding the endlinks topic.. indeed im certain it is an added bonus to get new ones..

but if the V1 kit is being sold as is without new endlinks.. then it has to be the case that you can install with oem endlinks with no major issues. otherwise the kit should be sold with new links, or indicated somewhere in the product description that new links are required/recommened..


kits like Sonic and FA, come with new endlinks.. but those kits are complete struts with new top/camber plates etc..

the V1 kit re-uses the entire mounts, tophats etc.. therefore I would assume that since oem parts are being used to complete the install.. that the oem links will be sufficient.

as per the ECSTuning coilover install video on youtube, he was installing a set to ST coilovers, which are basically identical to the KwV1.. and neither come with new endlinks. there were no added parts.. he removed stock suspension and installed new suspension and thats it..!
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      04-05-2014, 10:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drock28 View Post
well im glad im not the only one having gone through all this..

now regarding the endlinks topic.. indeed im certain it is an added bonus to get new ones..

but if the V1 kit is being sold as is without new endlinks.. then it has to be the case that you can install with oem endlinks with no major issues. otherwise the kit should be sold with new links, or indicated somewhere in the product description that new links are required/recommened..


kits like Sonic and FA, come with new endlinks.. but those kits are complete struts with new top/camber plates etc..

the V1 kit re-uses the entire mounts, tophats etc.. therefore I would assume that since oem parts are being used to complete the install.. that the oem links will be sufficient.

as per the ECSTuning coilover install video on youtube, he was installing a set to ST coilovers, which are basically identical to the KwV1.. and neither come with new endlinks. there were no added parts.. he removed stock suspension and installed new suspension and thats it..!
You have to think about the geometry of the sway bar and what happens when you change that angle when lowering the car. Just because a kit doesn't come with something it doesn't mean its not meant to be done.

I have asts and they have a nifty function for the front where they have an adjustable sway link collar so you can change the height dependent on how low you drop the car. For other coils that don't offer this, you need the new endlinks or its going to cause 2 issues: 1.) Binding of the sway bar as both sides are not dropped perfectly which is pretty typical. 2.) rotation up of the sway bar since the endlinks are to short.

I know it may seem this isn't necessary but once you feel the difference in setting up the endlinks correctly, its pretty shocking.
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      04-05-2014, 12:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
You have to think about the geometry of the sway bar and what happens when you change that angle when lowering the car. Just because a kit doesn't come with something it doesn't mean its not meant to be done.

I have asts and they have a nifty function for the front where they have an adjustable sway link collar so you can change the height dependent on how low you drop the car. For other coils that don't offer this, you need the new endlinks or its going to cause 2 issues: 1.) Binding of the sway bar as both sides are not dropped perfectly which is pretty typical. 2.) rotation up of the sway bar since the endlinks are to short.

I know it may seem this isn't necessary but once you feel the difference in setting up the endlinks correctly, its pretty shocking.
Why is it bad if the sway bar is rotated up due the end links being too short?
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      04-05-2014, 12:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
You have to think about the geometry of the sway bar and what happens when you change that angle when lowering the car. Just because a kit doesn't come with something it doesn't mean its not meant to be done.
I'm not doubting your understanding of suspension tech - but there's probably 100+ cars on this forum lowered on coils that have not changed the end links. Are you saying everyone is doing it wrong?
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      04-05-2014, 01:07 PM   #15
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its not that everyone is doing it wrong.. KwV1 do not come with longer endlinks.. so as you said 90% of v1 users just intall the kit with oem endlinks and thats it.. with relative good/satisfied results..

which is likely what I will do myself...

but as mentioned above..for kits that dont come with new endlinks, when the car is lowered and you use the oem endlinks.. the swaybar is being flexed from its normal/stock position by fitting the oem endlink. it will work and for most it will be fine.

but for those who have swapped in longer/adjustable endlinks after.. it is reported to be night and day difference, because this allows the swaybar to be back to its proper position. so this does make alot of sense..

i have no experience with either yet.. but it does make sense.. nonetheless I will be like eveyrone else.. and just re-use the oem endlinks.. if I feel the car rides to my comfort after the install.. I will call it a day and thats it..

before finally "giving in" to the V1s.. I was looking mostly at Sonics and FA.. which come with new endlinks..

so when I ordered the V1s, the fact they did not come with a new set of link.. I automatically assumed new ones were not necessary.. but now ive learnt different that its a good addon even with V1s.. i woudl have liked to realize this before ordering.. but its too late now..

actually another important bit, that i read, is that the Xi cars have to lower abit more then the rwd cars.. so this is where the oem endlinks may play more of a roll in disrupting swaybar versus rwd cars that dont need to lower as much, therefore disrupting the swaybar less..

nonetheless.. I have spoken with a hand full of Xi people with V1, using oem links.. with no significant issues..

Last edited by Drock28; 04-05-2014 at 01:26 PM.
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      04-05-2014, 06:54 PM   #16
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Ha, you're a quick learner. You must have spent some time doing some reading today, lol.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Drock28 View Post
its not that everyone is doing it wrong.. KwV1 do not come with longer endlinks.. so as you said 90% of v1 users just intall the kit with oem endlinks and thats it.. with relative good/satisfied results..

which is likely what I will do myself...

but as mentioned above..for kits that dont come with new endlinks, when the car is lowered and you use the oem endlinks.. the swaybar is being flexed from its normal/stock position by fitting the oem endlink. it will work and for most it will be fine.

but for those who have swapped in longer/adjustable endlinks after.. it is reported to be night and day difference, because this allows the swaybar to be back to its proper position. so this does make alot of sense..

i have no experience with either yet.. but it does make sense.. nonetheless I will be like eveyrone else.. and just re-use the oem endlinks.. if I feel the car rides to my comfort after the install.. I will call it a day and thats it..

before finally "giving in" to the V1s.. I was looking mostly at Sonics and FA.. which come with new endlinks..

so when I ordered the V1s, the fact they did not come with a new set of link.. I automatically assumed new ones were not necessary.. but now ive learnt different that its a good addon even with V1s.. i woudl have liked to realize this before ordering.. but its too late now..

actually another important bit, that i read, is that the Xi cars have to lower abit more then the rwd cars.. so this is where the oem endlinks may play more of a roll in disrupting swaybar versus rwd cars that dont need to lower as much, therefore disrupting the swaybar less..

nonetheless.. I have spoken with a hand full of Xi people with V1, using oem links.. with no significant issues..
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      04-05-2014, 06:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I'm not doubting your understanding of suspension tech - but there's probably 100+ cars on this forum lowered on coils that have not changed the end links. Are you saying everyone is doing it wrong?
The definition of wrong is a fine line when it comes to suspension. Just like some of us could get a camber kit when lowering the car but we choose not too because we are close enough in spec.

As for the endlink question, technically it is wrong to not change endlinks when lowering a car so if you want me to say they're wrong, then yes they're doing it wrong. Is it a big issue with safety concerns, absolutely not. But to have load and limited rotation of the sway bar because the links are at the maximum rotation limit then you get a harsher and "twitchier" ride.

So for other people to say they haven't had an issue with oem endlinks then yes, there is no issue that would be had as it is just a difference in ride quality. So if they haven't ever changed the endlinks to longer ones, how are they to have a comparison to judge how their current ride quality is vs. swapped out longer ones and say with any certainty that their car rides like it is suppose to???
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      04-06-2014, 07:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Ha, you're a quick learner. You must have spent some time doing some reading today, lol.
yes.. I did read into this more.. although im pissed that didnt realize this before I ordered my kit.. it does make sense.. that new endlinks are a good idea..

but I will start with using the stock endlinks and go from there..

maybe in the future I will swap in new ones..

I tried to research which ones to buy.. but couldnt find much, or to know which ones were right.

to my understanding you can get adjustable ones, which I guess would be the best, or just fixed longer ones.

if you could post some different options would be good please.
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      04-06-2014, 08:15 AM   #19
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well I found this video.. of a guy installing new endlinks on his Xi car with Kws.

but he did not say what the length was..? if they are just oem replacement.. then that would be pretty redundant..? im sure they are better then the stock ones, but if they are just oem replacement, then its not correcting the swaybar flex..

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      04-06-2014, 08:39 AM   #20
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heres another video of the same guy doing full install.. they seem longer but cant tell.. and he does not specify either..

the Brand is Meley HD endlinks..

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      04-06-2014, 09:13 AM   #21
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Those are OE replacements. However, they are ok for the KW kit. If you look at a picture of a KW kit, it appears that ride height is set by spring preload, and the endlink mount is stationary on the strut body; i.e. you can't adjust ride height on the KW kit by increasing or decreasing the strut body length.

If you look at the FA picture in the other post, ride height is not set by preload, but by adjusting the strut body length; i.e. it has an adjustable strut body that doesn't affect spring preload. The endlink mount is attached to the adjustable strut body. Therefore, the endlink length needed changes based on the selected ride height. Basically, the lower I go, the further the endlink mounts are away from each other, and vice versa as I increase ride height.

In my case, I have the ride height set as low as it will go, and I measured a 15.5" endlink length needed to put the sway bar back in the middle of its range of rotation. I could use the OE 13.5" fixed endlinks, but I would have to rotate the bar all the way up, and it wouldn't be able to rotate. This makes sense to me because if the FAs were set to OEM Xi ride height, then I could use the OE endlinks and the bar would be in the proper position. Since the FAs lowered my car about 2", then the endlink mount has moved up about 2", which equate to a 15.5" endlink length.
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      04-06-2014, 09:27 AM   #22
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hi.. thanks for the feedback..
correct the kw kit.. height is adjust solely by turning the collar, up and down, so the spring is compressed more the lower you go.. but the kw springs are progressive..whereas the Sonic and FA springs are linear.

the issue with enlinks is not an issue for you since the FA kit comes with a new set. I beleive it does right.? I know the sonic kit comes with new endlinks for sure.

so what are you saying..? that the fack the strut is fixed on the kw kit..that doing new endlinks is less of an issue.?

if ive understood all this correct.. even tho the Kw strut is fixed.. as you lower the car example 2".. the mount where the link attaches to the strut and to the swaybar are still moving away from each other..

therefore by still using the stock links.. it will have to bent the swaybar upwards.. to fill in the space so that the links can be screwed back in..

so from you said above.. the stock endlinks are 13.5".. so would it be safe to assume that the amount of inches you lower directly translates into the added length required on a new set of links..?

Last edited by Drock28; 04-06-2014 at 09:40 AM.
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