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      08-31-2010, 08:50 AM   #1
escaport
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335d Exhaust Fluid mileage

Wondering what has been the experience of other Adblue owners on when they have had to bring their cars in for fluid.

My 335d had the 1k start warning trigger at exactly 6,000 miles on the odo. I was told by the dealer during the purchase process that it would be around 12-15k miles. Obviously I'm very short on that and wondering if that is normal.

Also, after a call to the dealer was told that I could just bring it by and it would take 10-15 minutes to fill up and be on my way, no appointment nessesary. When I arived, I was informed that an appointment was needed and it would be 1 1/2 hours. What are you guys experiences?
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      09-02-2010, 09:17 AM   #2
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Anyone? At the dealer now, and it was obvious he was feeding me a line of crap.

Me: The sales person told me the fluid needed to be filled every 12-15k.

Advisor: Yeah, that's about right.

Me: So why am I having to fill it when I only have 6k on the car? Is that normal?

Advisor: Umm, Oh yes. It depends on the fuel milage and the way you drive. Usually between 6k to as long as 12k.

Pissed me off. It even states 12-15k in the sales material from BMW. It wasn't as if it ran out and kind of let me know at 6123 miles. It happened the second I ticked 6000 exactly.

I don't drive that hard most of the time. Ok, well maybe I do. However this is my wife's car not mine, and she is averaging 34MPG in it and she really doesn't drive hard.

Anyone with 335d Adblue/Urea experience give any insight to this?

For future reference, I am getting my service from BMW of Dallas. He was not my normal service advisor Joe, who has been great. Joe was off apparently.
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      09-02-2010, 09:36 AM   #3
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Yep, he came back and said the tech told him it wasn't normal and there was a bad sensor.
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      09-02-2010, 10:31 AM   #4
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DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) is used at 3% of your gas milage. Lets say you use 100 gallons a month, you will use 3 gallons of DEF. How large is your container? They can estimate it'll last that long, but in reality it never ever will. This is why adblue IS A MAJOR FAIL.

Also, Adblue sells for 7-15 dollars a gallon (liter maybe), while amonia in an aqueous solution sells for a buck or two-FUCKIN RIP OFF.
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      09-03-2010, 05:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TotalPower View Post
DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) is used at 3% of your gas milage. Lets say you use 100 gallons a month, you will use 3 gallons of DEF. How large is your container? They can estimate it'll last that long, but in reality it never ever will. This is why adblue IS A MAJOR FAIL.

Also, Adblue sells for 7-15 dollars a gallon (liter maybe), while amonia in an aqueous solution sells for a buck or two-FUCKIN RIP OFF.
Mine lasted until my first oil change at 12,000 miles. I drive the Autobahn at an average of 100-120 mph during 40 min of my one hour commute each day.

Also, BMW drastically dropped the price of their DEF. It's now comparable to all other manufacturer's prices. You can buy Adblue, but be sure it's category 5. Actually, the DEF from BMW is cheaper than Adblue cat 5 off the shelf I have found.
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      09-03-2010, 01:06 PM   #6
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More info regarding DEF ... Link
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      09-03-2010, 07:48 PM   #7
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I got my car was at the dealer a few weeks ago for the yearly service. This should have include oil change, filter change, and urea refill.... Well what do you know?... I got the damn no start in 1000mi warning today. The damn dealer must have forgotten to refill my urea tank...
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      09-03-2010, 08:08 PM   #8
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@ 13k, when I had my first maintenance, I still hadn't gotten the 1k warning. I'm at 27k now, and still no warning (and they topped off the DEF when I was there at 13k). I'm due for service again in about 2k, but I'm taking the car in next week. We'll see if they top it off again.
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      01-07-2011, 05:52 PM   #9
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Urea mileage

I took delivery of my 2010 335d in Dec 2009.
I am an easy driver. No hard accelerations and I generally drive 65-70 ( with sunroof open in summer but without the air cond). I average well above 35MPG -to as high as 40MPG- in summer and around 35 MPG or a little below in winter.
I have tracked every fill up! At the same pump! Actual vs meter!
On June 17th 2010 with 5997 miles, I get the dreaded warning “997 miles remaining to "no start'. I called the dealer. They thought it was likely a “glitch” and to continue driving as I would get additional warnings if the car was truly low on fluid.
They were correct. I’ve had no further warnings.
But here is the interesting part:
My annual service was last Friday Dec 31 2010 with 12,400 miles. I asked to be informed of how much urea was added. Response: 1 gallon!
A discussion ensued. Even one of the managers says it should hold around 2.5 gallons. The tech was called in. He swore the passive tank was full. to be on safe side, I noted all of the above to the service manager by email. (These are good folks). He asks that I bring the car in to be re-checked.
I do so yesterday. They once more verified both the active and passive tanks are full!
The service manager said he saw fluid running out of the passive tank.

Based on all I've read, I cannot see how this is possible. I (and I think perhaps others) have much to learn about urea usage vs. how the car is driven so I thought my experience was worth sharing.

I hope (wish) the dealer was correct about the tanks being full because if so, the urea will become a non-issue for me, but frankly I still have my doubts even with the re-check yesterday.

Time, plus a few thousand miles, will tell.

The 335d is a great car. I’ve been a diesel driver since 1979. First GM, then MB’s 617 and 601 engines, and even a 04 Passat TDI.
The 335d far far exceeds the pleasure of driving the older, but great and utterly reliable MB diesels, with almost the same mileage of the VW Passat 2.0 TDI!

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      01-09-2011, 11:29 AM   #10
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Have them check your metering valve. It is most likely clogged and needs cleaning or replacing. This happened to me twice in the 11k I have owned the car.
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      02-25-2011, 10:00 PM   #11
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Im attempting to go as long as possible without filling the DEF until I get a warning, currently at a little over 16k. I will update when I finally get a warning.

A hand full of cars do seem to run low on DEF around the 5-6k mark, but the majority have made to to or beyond (ie, no warning) their first oil service without any DEF refills.
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      02-25-2011, 10:26 PM   #12
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Wow thats a long time between DEF fill ups.

You guys should be happy, I work for a Freightliner dealer and our freightliner trucks with Detroit Diesel DD15 engines use 1 gallon of DEF for every 300 miles traveled (assuming they average 6 miles per gallon). We sell a good amount of DEF. What is the price bmw charges?
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      07-12-2011, 06:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich V View Post
Im attempting to go as long as possible without filling the DEF until I get a warning, currently at a little over 16k. I will update when I finally get a warning.

A hand full of cars do seem to run low on DEF around the 5-6k mark, but the majority have made to to or beyond (ie, no warning) their first oil service without any DEF refills.
If cars are needing fluid at 5-6k, they are not "Low" there is a problem with the fluid feeding, Often due to loss of pump prime between active and passive tanks. I had this problem at 5183 miles and my passive tank was 100% full.

I've spoken with a high level technical contact at BMW NA about this, and he confirms 335d should ALWAYS MAKE the 13-15k service interval before needing a fill. In certain cases X5d's might need an early top off if they were doing a lot of heavy towing.
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      07-12-2011, 09:07 PM   #14
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My D's had two oil changes and will be going in for the 3rd in the next month or so.
So far I did not have to refill the DEF in-between oil changes but on the second service the dealer forgot to refill the DEF and the day after the oil change the DEF warning appeared.
I sent it back and had the DEF refilled and stood there to watch them do it.
The D was hooked up to a computer and the monitor showed the % of the active + passive tanks as they fill them up.

I noticed that my fuel filter has not been changed yet and recently when I had to bring the D in to check the rear brakes, I asked when the fuel filter will be changed and was it will be done in the third oil change service.

After 55,000 KM it still drives like the first day I got it....fantastic performance + great FE.
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      07-12-2011, 09:34 PM   #15
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I got a low DEF warning at 4600 miles. There is a SI on this topic... apparently a few 335d's left the factory with low DEF fills. I'm not sure if that's what caused mine to run out early... I guess I'll know in a year or so.
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      07-12-2011, 09:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
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I noticed that my fuel filter has not been changed yet and recently when I had to bring the D in to check the rear brakes, I asked when the fuel filter will be changed and was it will be done in the third oil change service.
I don't follow how the fuel filter schedule works. Early on in ownership I did a fair amount of searching on the subject because I am used to having to replace my fuel filters around 15k miles on my other diesels. I ended up finding a SIB and then looking at the car's warranty booklet(I never received one but downloaded it off the BMW site. Both of those say cars before a mid 2009 build date have it every third oil change like you just mentioned but for cars after that build date it is every other oil change. This is where I don't follow things too well because seems like a lot of folks are not following that.

As far as DEF low around 6k miles, that happened to my car between the 1st and 2nd oil changes. They found nothing but I was to the point of needing a yearly oil change so got things topped off at that point. I am roughly 6k miles passed that and *knock on wood* no issues this time around.
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      07-13-2011, 07:48 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
I don't follow how the fuel filter schedule works. Early on in ownership I did a fair amount of searching on the subject because I am used to having to replace my fuel filters around 15k miles on my other diesels. I ended up finding a SIB and then looking at the car's warranty booklet(I never received one but downloaded it off the BMW site. Both of those say cars before a mid 2009 build date have it every third oil change like you just mentioned but for cars after that build date it is every other oil change. This is where I don't follow things too well because seems like a lot of folks are not following that.

As far as DEF low around 6k miles, that happened to my car between the 1st and 2nd oil changes. They found nothing but I was to the point of needing a yearly oil change so got things topped off at that point. I am roughly 6k miles passed that and *knock on wood* no issues this time around.
I read that manual from one of the links on Bimmerfest Forum and mentioned to the SA that in the US the service manual for 335d says the fuel filter is to be changed every second oil change! But my D's build date was Oct '09 so shouldn't it be every other oil change?
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      07-13-2011, 09:16 AM   #18
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I read that manual from one of the links on Bimmerfest Forum and mentioned to the SA that in the US the service manual for 335d says the fuel filter is to be changed every second oil change! But my D's build date was Oct '09 so shouldn't it be every other oil change?
SIB000408 on page 15 states the replacement interval as of 3/09 production to be "Every 2nd oil change" so I'd say yours should be done every other oil change. It also states the replacement interval thru 2/09 production is every 3rd oil change. For some reason I am betting no significant change exists between the two productions and especially one that would imply the older cars have some sort of better filtration system that lasts longer. It also has the same intervals for the air filter. It also has down on page 17 the following which supports page 15:

Quote:
The diesel engine fuel filter must be replaced at every 3rd engine oil change.
The diesel engine fuel filter must be replaced at every 3rd engine oil change on vehicles thru 2/09
production; but at every 2nd engine oil change on vehicles built as of 3/09.
I am having some trouble finding my warranty booklet document to open it up and see how it was worded in there. But as I recall it simply supported what I stated above but that is a booklet for a 2009 car and not sure if they differ for 2010 cars.
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      07-13-2011, 10:55 AM   #19
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So this is what I learned today. The DEF they are using today is different than the DEF that was used when I bought my car two years ago. Apparently, the "old" DEF required the dealer empty the entire DEF from the urea tank when new DEF was added. Then, as of May 2010, BMW started selling "new" DEF. The "new" DEF doesn't breakdown the same way the "old" DEF did. Now they can just top off the DEF under the hood as opposed to getting in through the urea tank lid at the back left of the car. Truthfully, I'm just parroting what I was told by the SA. I don't know where the top off is for the DEF under the hood.
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      07-13-2011, 11:00 AM   #20
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As I understand it the X5 has a top off under the hood but I could be very wrong on that. For the 335d it is all in the back, I have watched them do both the drain and refill process as well as a top off process. I have never heard of DEF fluid going through any recent changes in the past couple of years. To the best of my knowledge it still has a somewhat short shelf life that is dictated greatly by what temperatures it is exposed to.
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      07-13-2011, 11:14 AM   #21
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So this is what I learned today. The DEF they are using today is different than the DEF that was used when I bought my car two years ago. Apparently, the "old" DEF required the dealer empty the entire DEF from the urea tank when new DEF was added. Then, as of May 2010, BMW started selling "new" DEF. The "new" DEF doesn't breakdown the same way the "old" DEF did. Now they can just top off the DEF under the hood as opposed to getting in through the urea tank lid at the back left of the car. Truthfully, I'm just parroting what I was told by the SA. I don't know where the top off is for the DEF under the hood.
RUN!
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      07-13-2011, 12:25 PM   #22
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RUN!
Interesting! What can I ask the SA for to get evidence of what he is saying? Is there a service notice he should be looking at to address this issue? I assume there would be some sort of instructions if there was such a change.
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