E90Post
 


Lux Angel Eyes
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > 405lb-ft of torque at the wheels?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-25-2007, 07:58 PM   #221
SoCal335i
Banned
 
Drives: 2007 E92-TT Jet Blk Coral Red
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cali

Posts: 771
iTrader: (2)

You cant judge a car off of one run, especially at a bad track. At a track like Famoso it would do much better and from what i understand Shiv is running the car on stock wheels/tires. You cant get a good 60 foot from those stocks with the power that its putting down to the wheels. Bigger tires wont hurt that car only help it. The only cure for traction on that car will be LSD!
SoCal335i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2007, 07:59 PM   #222
musc
Major
 
musc's Avatar
 
Drives: 335is DCT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: S. Carolina

Posts: 1,204
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2004 E46 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinejunkie View Post
2.2sec 0-60 foot is horrible with exede. Its too much torque in the low end causing this. If you look at the stock version it is doing 60 foot in 1.9 sec. Thats right of the bet adding 0.3 seconds to your slip. This means a bone stock 335 will be 0.3 seconds ahead of XEDE. ALthough this means not much to the unexperienced, last time i lost to somebody that was .3 faster than me, looked like he passed me standing still.

Nobody wants the idea of detuning their car. They want mega hp, mega torque. If you cant put it down, you are not gonna be any different than a PONTIAC GTO. What i am suggesting is not a complete detune, its a slight gear related one. Like progressive NOS KITS do. Gently raising the boost in the begining, then giving it all where it can take

I drove evos, stis. On a roll stock to stock none of these cars are any faster than 335. But why are they so quick on quarter mile, because of the 0-60 foot times. They can put the power down, we cant.
You are basing this off of ONE official quarter mile run. Also, your theory doesn't hold much water. Even with a 60 ft .3 seconds slower, the Xede was still powerful enough to be .2 seconds quicker and 6+ mph faster than any stock 335i. So it doesn't just 'add' 0.3 seconds to your slip. I am sure you will see plenty of stock 335is with 2.2+ 60 foot times too. It has a lot do with the Driver.

If you want progressive power, learn to modulate the throttle. Evo/Stis are always going to have quick 0-60 because they are 4wd.
__________________
E46 M3 | SMGII | OEM CSL 19s | D/A Race Software | OEM CSL Header | Dixis TI | Streamline Drop in filter | (sold)
E92 335is | DCT | JB4 G5 ISO | BB Flash | BMS DCI | BMS CP | BMS OCC | BMS O-Tstat | ETS 5" | Walbro GSL392 | 436/479 Dynojet
musc is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2007, 08:00 PM   #223
RRGOO7
Colonel
 
RRGOO7's Avatar
 
Drives: GTR
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Miami FL

Posts: 2,445
iTrader: (13)

it is 90% the driver...all rear wheel drive cars have problems with their 60' times
RRGOO7 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2007, 08:06 PM   #224
Terry335
Banned
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Socal

Posts: 2,587
iTrader: (0)

Time for some drag radials. A MPH based boost control would be cool though. Can this gizmo do that?
Terry335 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2007, 08:08 PM   #225
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
shiv@vishnu's Avatar
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,611
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Burger View Post
Time for some drag radials. A MPH based boost control would be cool though. Can this gizmo do that?

Yes. Already working on it.

shiv
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2007, 09:09 PM   #226
Grogan545
New Member
 
Drives: BMW 545I
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SE Pa

Posts: 14
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Yes. Already working on it.

shiv
shiv,keep up the good work on the excede.I have been drag racing for more than 40 years and it is obvious to me all you need is a good set of drag radials or better yet a set of small slicks.With a trap speed of over 111 your 1/4 times will be 12.5 or less.I know drag racing is not your interest but it doesn't make sense to have all that power and low end torque without adding tires to handle it.Trap speed is the best indicator of power and if other cars with a speed of 111 have et's in the low 12's,your car with proper tires can do the same.

I am very impressed with a device that sells for $1300 that gives more than 50 rwp @ 100# torque.In the world of high performance parts this is a real bargain!
Grogan545 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2007, 09:14 PM   #227
Grogan545
New Member
 
Drives: BMW 545I
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SE Pa

Posts: 14
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinejunkie View Post
2.2sec 0-60 foot is horrible with exede. Its too much torque in the low end causing this. If you look at the stock version it is doing 60 foot in 1.9 sec. Thats right of the bet adding 0.3 seconds to your slip. This means a bone stock 335 will be 0.3 seconds ahead of XEDE. ALthough this means not much to the unexperienced, last time i lost to somebody that was .3 faster than me, looked like he passed me standing still.

Nobody wants the idea of detuning their car. They want mega hp, mega torque. If you cant put it down, you are not gonna be any different than a PONTIAC GTO. What i am suggesting is not a complete detune, its a slight gear related one. Like progressive NOS KITS do. Gently raising the boost in the begining, then giving it all where it can take

I drove evos, stis. On a roll stock to stock none of these cars are any faster than 335. But why are they so quick on quarter mile, because of the 0-60 foot times. They can put the power down, we cant.
There is no such thing as too much torque,only not enough tire.
Grogan545 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2007, 11:04 PM   #228
redlinejunkie
Private
 
Drives: 335 coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ohio

Posts: 64
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grogan545 View Post
There is no such thing as too much torque,only not enough tire.
If you cant put it on the floor, then you don have it. Understand!!!

All I am saying If there is some type of slight detune in the map in the 0-60 foot range, then leave the rest of the map the same with gobs of torgue and hp, this car i bet you any money will do 12.7 with stock tires. As long as you can do 0-60 foot around 1.9-1.8, it will do it.
redlinejunkie is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2007, 11:15 PM   #229
redlinejunkie
Private
 
Drives: 335 coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ohio

Posts: 64
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by catm3 View Post
You are basing this off of ONE official quarter mile run. Also, your theory doesn't hold much water. Even with a 60 ft .3 seconds slower, the Xede was still powerful enough to be .2 seconds quicker and 6+ mph faster than any stock 335i. So it doesn't just 'add' 0.3 seconds to your slip. I am sure you will see plenty of stock 335is with 2.2+ 60 foot times too. It has a lot do with the Driver.

If you want progressive power, learn to modulate the throttle. Evo/Stis are always going to have quick 0-60 because they are 4wd.
Do you think shiv did not really try to modulate the pedal. I bet he knows that much about driving. SO why is the stock car still quicker in the 0-60 foot, again unutilizable monster torque is the answer.

If you manage to do the same 0-60 foot time of a stock 335 (1.9 sec) with utilizing exede, other things being the same then you will chop 0.3 secs of your slip at least. Thats how it works. And i bet your trap speed will COME DOWN because you hooked up better out of the box.

Evos having quicker 0-60 times proves my point again, you need to hook up.

In anycase, I am sure shiv is gonna come up with something brilliant sooner or later
redlinejunkie is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 03:25 AM   #230
musc
Major
 
musc's Avatar
 
Drives: 335is DCT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: S. Carolina

Posts: 1,204
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2004 E46 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinejunkie View Post
Do you think shiv did not really try to modulate the pedal. I bet he knows that much about driving. SO why is the stock car still quicker in the 0-60 foot, again unutilizable monster torque is the answer.

If you manage to do the same 0-60 foot time of a stock 335 (1.9 sec) with utilizing exede, other things being the same then you will chop 0.3 secs of your slip at least. Thats how it works. And i bet your trap speed will COME DOWN because you hooked up better out of the box.

Evos having quicker 0-60 times proves my point again, you need to hook up.

In anycase, I am sure shiv is gonna come up with something brilliant sooner or later
Again, you are basing this off one driver who has made one run. And if you bothered to read his posts, he already stated he isnt the best drag racer. It is not like and Xede 335i is the most power rwd car ever. The torque isnt 'unutilizable', he just needs decent tires to start with before you can even make an assumptions. Its foolish to even worry about using true street radials anyhow. This car will hook up fine on drag radials... no power adjustments needed.
__________________
E46 M3 | SMGII | OEM CSL 19s | D/A Race Software | OEM CSL Header | Dixis TI | Streamline Drop in filter | (sold)
E92 335is | DCT | JB4 G5 ISO | BB Flash | BMS DCI | BMS CP | BMS OCC | BMS O-Tstat | ETS 5" | Walbro GSL392 | 436/479 Dynojet
musc is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 04:00 AM   #231
Walked U
Brigadier General
 
Drives: RR sport s/c, E82, E89 3.5is
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: USA

Posts: 3,118
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by catm3 View Post
Again, you are basing this off one driver who has made one run. And if you bothered to read his posts, he already stated he isnt the best drag racer. It is not like and Xede 335i is the most power rwd car ever. The torque isnt 'unutilizable', he just needs decent tires to start with before you can even make an assumptions. Its foolish to even worry about using true street radials anyhow. This car will hook up fine on drag radials... no power adjustments needed.


+1, just look at the trap time he pulled. Its better to see the cars potiental from the trap times.

111 mph is fast. My friend doing 12.8's in a fully bolt on gto traps at high 110 mph, and thats at the crappy ass new fontana track.

Remember driving a car is 75% the driver and 25% the car. You can have the fastest car in the world but, if you cant drive its just as good as a show car.

Just look at the car in the drag times site under shivs http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW--335i-Drag-Racing.html

Do you really think +7 mph will really only produce a .2 tenths of a sec faster... Come on give me a break.
__________________
Previous - E90 335i, E82
Current - E89 / Range Rover sport Super charged.
Walked U is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 04:55 AM   #232
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
shiv@vishnu's Avatar
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,611
iTrader: (0)

Next time I run, my goal is a 14.0 at 116mph
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 05:16 AM   #233
musc
Major
 
musc's Avatar
 
Drives: 335is DCT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: S. Carolina

Posts: 1,204
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2004 E46 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Next time I run, my goal is a 14.0 at 116mph
Haha, 116 sounds great Are you going to get back to the strip this weekend?
__________________
E46 M3 | SMGII | OEM CSL 19s | D/A Race Software | OEM CSL Header | Dixis TI | Streamline Drop in filter | (sold)
E92 335is | DCT | JB4 G5 ISO | BB Flash | BMS DCI | BMS CP | BMS OCC | BMS O-Tstat | ETS 5" | Walbro GSL392 | 436/479 Dynojet
musc is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 06:05 AM   #234
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
shiv@vishnu's Avatar
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,611
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by catm3 View Post
Haha, 116 sounds great Are you going to get back to the strip this weekend?
I was just joking I don't expect to see those kinds of trap speeds anytime soon. Nor do I have any immediate plans to hit the strip in the near future. Too much stuff to do in the upcoming weekends!

-shiv
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 08:34 AM   #235
redlinejunkie
Private
 
Drives: 335 coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ohio

Posts: 64
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walked U View Post
+1, just look at the trap time he pulled. Its better to see the cars potiental from the trap times.

111 mph is fast. My friend doing 12.8's in a fully bolt on gto traps at high 110 mph, and thats at the crappy ass new fontana track.

Remember driving a car is 75% the driver and 25% the car. You can have the fastest car in the world but, if you cant drive its just as good as a show car.

Just look at the car in the drag times site under shivs http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW--335i-Drag-Racing.html

Do you really think +7 mph will really only produce a .2 tenths of a sec faster... Come on give me a break.

This is turning out to be an argument, more than anything right now. I like exede, and what Shiv is doing. And i know this is just a few runs made etc. And i know Shiv does not have experience etc. I am just trying to explain that temporarily slightly reducing the boost, and thus improving traction can actually lead to quicker times, instead of buying huge rear tires thats all.

Believe it or not, if there is some experienced drag racer here can may be back me up, trap speed could be deceiving. IF you did lets say 13.2 with a horrible launch that generated 0-60 foot times of 2.2 secs, at 112 mph. Second run you hooked up the car better and did 13.0 with 0-60 foot times of 2 secs. Your trap speed may not go higher at all. So yes you went 2 tenths of a asecond faster, but your mph is marginally improved. Since your ET is quicker now in the second run, the car may come close to that speed earlier and carry it longer, and run out of the road at the end. Remember the acceleration significantly drops compared to the bottom end, so at 110 you are not accelerating as quick as when you were 70 mph. But you are also covering more distance per second.

SO the idea is to get close to 112 mph or whatever trapspeed car is capable as quickly as early as possible, and let that ride to the end. And again to do that you gotto hook up earlier. Better you hook up earlier you will reach near your trap speed, and thus quicker you go.
redlinejunkie is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 09:20 AM   #236
bmwzimmer
Major
 
bmwzimmer's Avatar
 
Drives: 335
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: 91 octane states

Posts: 1,084
iTrader: (0)

Obviously for every second you take off your 0-60mph time, you take it off your 1/4 mile time. However as a general rule of thumb, for every 0.1 seconds you take off your 60' time, you take off 0.2 seconds off the quarter mile time....
So if this is the case, if shiv hit a 1.9, his time would be 12.6 sec @ 111mph. With slicks, 1.7 trap is doable so the car should run low 12's with a good driver.

Here are some examples of some M3's with the same trap speeds and how the times differ vs. 60'
1/4mi time 60' (both trap 109mph)
12.980 1.954
12.770 1.808

13.313 2.036 (both trap 105mph)
12.976 1.876

12.430 2.174 (Supercharged M3's trapping 118 and 117mph respectively)
12.199 1.857
bmwzimmer is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 10:01 AM   #237
redlinejunkie
Private
 
Drives: 335 coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ohio

Posts: 64
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwzimmer View Post
Obviously for every second you take off your 0-60mph time, you take it off your 1/4 mile time. However as a general rule of thumb, for every 0.1 seconds you take off your 60' time, you take off 0.2 seconds off the quarter mile time....
So if this is the case, if shiv hit a 1.9, his time would be 12.6 sec @ 111mph. With slicks, 1.7 trap is doable so the car should run low 12's with a good driver.

Here are some examples of some M3's with the same trap speeds and how the times differ vs. 60'
1/4mi time 60' (both trap 109mph)
12.980 1.954
12.770 1.808

13.313 2.036 (both trap 105mph)
12.976 1.876

12.430 2.174 (Supercharged M3's trapping 118 and 117mph respectively)
12.199 1.857
Thanks man, thats what i wanted to say. This was a perfect example of going quicker with same trap speeds.
redlinejunkie is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 12:59 PM   #238
CASHBY
 
Drives: E90 335 "done up"
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: GARAGE

Posts: 2,117
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwzimmer View Post
Obviously for every second you take off your 0-60mph time, you take it off your 1/4 mile time. However as a general rule of thumb, for every 0.1 seconds you take off your 60' time, you take off 0.2 seconds off the quarter mile time....
So if this is the case, if shiv hit a 1.9, his time would be 12.6 sec @ 111mph. With slicks, 1.7 trap is doable so the car should run low 12's with a good driver.

Here are some examples of some M3's with the same trap speeds and how the times differ vs. 60'
1/4mi time 60' (both trap 109mph)
12.980 1.954
12.770 1.808

13.313 2.036 (both trap 105mph)
12.976 1.876

12.430 2.174 (Supercharged M3's trapping 118 and 117mph respectively)
12.199 1.857

ahahah didnt anyone not see me post that exact same thing earlier in the thread.

exactly right... for every 1/10 fast in your 60ft times your usualy 2 10ths faster in your 1/4 mile time!

1.8 60fts are very doable in our cars with good traction, and even 1.7 with drag radials.

botom line is with the power of Xede this is a 12 second car HANDS DOWN!
CASHBY is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 01:04 PM   #239
CASHBY
 
Drives: E90 335 "done up"
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: GARAGE

Posts: 2,117
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walked U View Post
+1, just look at the trap time he pulled. Its better to see the cars potiental from the trap times.

111 mph is fast. My friend doing 12.8's in a fully bolt on gto traps at high 110 mph, and thats at the crappy ass new fontana track.

.
Dont forget my 12.63 at only 108 MPH at fontana... im telling you guys that a 111 trap is a mid to low 12 second 1/4 mile pass with good traction... there is no doubt in my mind at all.

click the video in my sig to see a 12.79 pass i did at fontana at 108mph
CASHBY is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 01:09 PM   #240
CASHBY
 
Drives: E90 335 "done up"
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: GARAGE

Posts: 2,117
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinejunkie View Post

Believe it or not, if there is some experienced drag racer here can may be back me up, trap speed could be deceiving. IF you did lets say 13.2 with a horrible launch that generated 0-60 foot times of 2.2 secs, at 112 mph. Second run you hooked up the car better and did 13.0 with 0-60 foot times of 2 secs. Your trap speed may not go higher at all. So yes you went 2 tenths of a asecond faster, but your mph is marginally improved. Since your ET is quicker now in the second run, the car may come close to that speed earlier and carry it longer, and run out of the road at the end. Remember the acceleration significantly drops compared to the bottom end, so at 110 you are not accelerating as quick as when you were 70 mph. But you are also covering more distance per second.

SO the idea is to get close to 112 mph or whatever trapspeed car is capable as quickly as early as possible, and let that ride to the end. And again to do that you gotto hook up earlier. Better you hook up earlier you will reach near your trap speed, and thus quicker you go.
perfect example!!! I ran 15.5 in my 335 and still trapped 101 or something like that.... 60ft was like 2.6 ahahahah
CASHBY is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 01:42 PM   #241
musc
Major
 
musc's Avatar
 
Drives: 335is DCT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: S. Carolina

Posts: 1,204
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2004 E46 M3  [0.00]
Well not looking for an argument....

Of course trap speed can stay constant with varying ETs, and sometimes a quicker ET can have even slower speed because of good traction, like CEA 3s A4.

The thing is, Shivs car, or any Xede335i will likely trap higher than 111. Not even taking to consideration that the track used typically yields slower trap speeds. Just look at the run. He was 1/2 throttle in 1st and 2nd with TC on. Thats not very conducive to a good ET or maximum trap speed. If you want a true indication of what your trap speed is going to be, you need to make a run full throttle and especially with no electronic nannys try to slow you down. For example, my M3 was a full 5 mph slower in the 1/4 with DSC on because TC kept kicking in to modulate wheel spin. You cant get a true MPH with devices like TC holding you back.

Bottom line, the car will run 12s even with a trap of 111, but i think you will see a trap of 113-115 before its all said and done.
__________________
E46 M3 | SMGII | OEM CSL 19s | D/A Race Software | OEM CSL Header | Dixis TI | Streamline Drop in filter | (sold)
E92 335is | DCT | JB4 G5 ISO | BB Flash | BMS DCI | BMS CP | BMS OCC | BMS O-Tstat | ETS 5" | Walbro GSL392 | 436/479 Dynojet

Last edited by musc; 01-26-2007 at 02:35 PM.
musc is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2007, 01:46 PM   #242
CASHBY
 
Drives: E90 335 "done up"
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: GARAGE

Posts: 2,117
iTrader: (2)

WERD UP!
CASHBY is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:07 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST