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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > 405lb-ft of torque at the wheels?



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      01-17-2007, 04:08 PM   #89
teknochild
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i rhink it would be important to note that power is most likely higher everywhere vs stock, because i think thats what he was asking, if the xede introduced lag in the low rpms generating less than stock numbers
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      01-17-2007, 04:27 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teknochild
i rhink it would be important to note that power is most likely higher everywhere vs stock, because i think thats what he was asking, if the xede introduced lag in the low rpms generating less than stock numbers
Shiv, can you superimpose the stock runs on the graft in this thread? I know it is different days and conditions but it might be useful for the comparison at low RPM's being discussed here.

Also, what it the cause of the small spike in HP and Torque at like 4400 RPMs? It looks like it did it repeatedly in all 3 runs.

Edit: opps...it looks like it is only 2 runs, but same question.
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      01-17-2007, 04:28 PM   #91
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well got another question for shiv or maybe some of you guys to answer:

"It's easy to get more boost but for a tuner it's not always simple to do it under all conditions - at cold start, when hot and at altitude, for example. And there's a problem with the exhaust downpipe. With more power it gets very hot and will break."

that was taken from this article:
http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredveh...mw_335i_coupe/

so does that mean that with the chip tuners should also replace the downpipe?
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      01-17-2007, 04:36 PM   #92
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^ I believe that Shiv already responded to that quote in another thread where someone posted that. He said that it shouldn't be much of a concern, which I agree with since if the EGT's were out of control to the point of breaking a downpipe than it would definitely have an affect on the tune.
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      01-17-2007, 04:37 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06
well got another question for shiv or maybe some of you guys to answer:

"It's easy to get more boost but for a tuner it's not always simple to do it under all conditions - at cold start, when hot and at altitude, for example. And there's a problem with the exhaust downpipe. With more power it gets very hot and will break."

that was taken from this article:
http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredveh...mw_335i_coupe/

so does that mean that with the chip tuners should also replace the downpipe?

Downpipe has been discussed A LOT. Hit search this forum then type in downpipe then read away It seems like most folks expect tuners to work the piping at some point including Shiv but most folks with or without Xede are going to stick with stock and see how it holds up.
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      01-17-2007, 04:39 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06
so does that mean that with the chip tuners should also replace the downpipe?
No. None of the 335i downpipes has been reported to break (no stock or Xede). Downpipe is high grade steel. there is nothing wrong with the materials that Bmw uses in its' exhaust systems.
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      01-17-2007, 05:18 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnj
No. None of the 335i downpipes has been reported to break (no stock or Xede). Downpipe is high grade steel. there is nothing wrong with the materials that Bmw uses in its' exhaust systems.
Maybe we should play doctor and stick thermometers in both stock and Xede.
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      01-17-2007, 06:12 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Throttle modulation. As silly as it sounds, one of the worst habits I see with drivers is that they treat the throttle like an on/off switch. Watch a good driver (in-cockpit rally footage is a good example) and you'll see him use all kinds of trottle angles to get him where he wants to go as quickly as possible. People are always so quick to improve grip when the absolute most fun you can have is when you're riding that grip/slip threshold. It also where you learn the most as a driver.

just my 2c,
Shiv
I agree, but would add that in my experience throttle modulation is easier with a LSD, especially when dealing with uneven surfaces. There is an inquiry here on E90Post for folks interested in signing up for a Quaife LSD.

A 335 + xede + LSD + PS2s is a very hot ride.
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      01-17-2007, 06:19 PM   #97
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Quote:
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A 335 + xede + LSD + PS2s is a very hot ride.
335 + xede + dsc + lsd = hearse
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      01-17-2007, 06:37 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007/335i/coupe
^^^
Yep, it's not really as bad as an EVO or STI. Those engines have less displacement creating an even larger gap when then turbo finally spins up while the 335 still had some grunt before the turbos come on. At first I was worried about this when I had the Xede installed, but now it's kind of neat to feel a power spike
^^^^^ +1! Yep, it's like..."Wow, this thing's got some power, and then all of a sudden...OMG, hold on!!!!!!" That's when you might see the DTC light flash for a sec. while the rear wheels are spinning, trying to catch up to all of the sudden extra HP/TQ! :rocks:
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      01-17-2007, 06:45 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflgator
^^^^^ +1! Yep, it's like..."Wow, this thing's got some power, and then all of a sudden...OMG, hold on!!!!!!" :rocks:
Haha, well described! I don't mind a bit of powering-up... it's kinda awesome actually...
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      01-17-2007, 06:55 PM   #100
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damn good work, i'mma hit you up after my break in shiv
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      01-17-2007, 09:01 PM   #101
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damn good work, i'mma hit you up after my break in shiv
Why wait? My install is a few days after I pick the car up. I will just take it easy for the first 1200 miles.
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      01-17-2007, 10:29 PM   #102
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im dying to see a video of the acceleration of this car with the chip, could some1 post one up
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      01-17-2007, 10:32 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Just in case some folks were wondering about the realworld effects our recent round of updates have had on power output, here's a graph for ya...



This is on our Stg 1 (exhaust and computer) car from earlier today, running 93oct. Dyno results from 2 weeks ago, under nearly identical conditions, were 375lb-ft and 345whp. The only things that changed since then have been our recent updated with our engine control computer (how it controls boost and adjusts ignition timing, specifically). Both setups ran the same boost- 12psi peak, tapering down to 11psi by 5000rpm and then down to 9psi by 7000rpm.

Tonight and tomorrow, I'm going to be testing at 4000' above sea level just to make sure there is enough overhead in the boost control system for it make the necessary adjustments.

Those beta folks who currently run our Stg 0 kit will see benefits from the new changes. And we will be offering free updates for those kind folks. This will require a hardware change to the Xede itself. That means that we will be swapping it out for another unit altogether. More on that later. Gotta get back to work

Cheers,
shiv

PS. To put this in perspective, by 3700rpm the car now is already making the peak power of a stock car (265-275whp). So basically, to drive keep up with a stock car, I'd have to short shift this car at 4000rpm
Can we get an update on how the car performed at 4,000 feet? Was it able to maintain full boost etc? Thanks!
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      01-17-2007, 11:10 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06
im dying to see a video of the acceleration of this car with the chip, could some1 post one up



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      01-17-2007, 11:27 PM   #105
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God this car is going to be so ridiculous in the next 6 months

by far goign to be the biggest tuner car of 07!

glad i got one!!!

shiv i cant wait till so cal dyno day!
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      01-17-2007, 11:31 PM   #106
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With this much torque down low, getting a 335xi would really take advantage of this mod despite the extra weight and drivetrain loss.
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      01-17-2007, 11:36 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwzimmer
With this much torque down low, getting a 335xi would really take advantage of this mod despite the extra weight and drivetrain loss.
so would the better tuning car be the 335Xi or the 335i, will the Xi be able to handle all the increased hp and tq
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      01-18-2007, 12:53 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hegemony
Shiv,

Overall, looks great. A couple of minor points, which in the end probably make no difference:

1) It looks like you're running a little leaner, up to a full point at 3000rpms, on the front end of the curve now than the previous setup. Still well below your original stock run, so I don't see any problems with it. My question is: Do you now feel that balancing A/F is factoring heavier into the equasion? aka Do you think you're getting closer to the limits of the stock system with upgraded exhaust?

2) The graph appears to imply that you're now making the same or possibly less power in the 1400-2000rpm range than stock. This very well could be a product of where your rpms were at the start of your runs and I'm not arguing that it's slower or less powerful. I'm curious to know if there is now a noticable power jump when accelerating through the range from low rpms into the mid range where you're now making the most power? Specifically, is the increase in power more of a dramatic jump now instead of a gradual increase?

-Hegemony
1) At no point in the rpm range are we running leaner than stock. In fact, in some places (above 4000rpm, for instance) we're running considerably richer.

2) At no point in the rpm range are we making as little or less torque as a stock car. The sudden rise in torque at 2500 has to do with my simply putting my foot in the throttle at 2500rpm. I suppose I could have got WOT just above idle but I think that's a pretty unrealistc condition. There is no more lag than stock either. The turbos spool up as quick or even quicker than stock, in fact. The only difference is that, when they spool up, the car makes a whole heap more power which will make the car feel more like an overacheiving turbo car than a NA motor'd car. IMHO, its far more enjoyable and obviously a whole lot quicker. If you want a NA car that makes 400lb feet of torque at the wheels at 3000rpm, get... umm.... i dunno.

cheers,
shiv
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      01-18-2007, 01:23 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06
so would the better tuning car be the 335Xi or the 335i, will the Xi be able to handle all the increased hp and tq
No doubt the 335Xi will be a good platform to tune. But unless you drive in inclimate weather often, I don't see the reason to add all the extra weight to the car. In the case of the Evo and Suby, AWD is used to improve the handling and balance of an inherenly imbalanced layout. In the case of the well-balanced 3 series, AWD just makes things work. Unless you live in the snow belt, of course, where the need for max traction takes precidence over handling balance.

cheers,
shiv
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      01-18-2007, 01:30 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insider
Can we get an update on how the car performed at 4,000 feet? Was it able to maintain full boost etc? Thanks!
I don't know if it was 4000' (the Grapevine in socal), but it turns out the factory ECU doesn't fully compensate for a decrease in atmospheric pressure. In other words, the car ran lower absolute manifold pressure at high altitude. This may be something that we can fix. However, we do need to be realistic with turbo limitations before asking it to run full manifold pressure at 5000' above sea level. Especially at the upper reaches of the RPM band where the turbos begin to run out of breathe. I'll try to take some more datalogs tomorrow when I drive through the Grapevine again. It was closed today due to road ice hazards. Hopefully it'll be negotiable tomorrow... fingers crossed.
-shiv
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