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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > PROCede v4 VS GIAC Stage 1 (N54)



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      09-28-2010, 07:49 AM   #1
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PROCede v4 VS GIAC Stage 1 (N54)

Disclaimer: I am not trying to start a flame war.

I am ready to get a tune for my 135i and I am stuck between the PROCede and the GIAC.

My initial feeling is that a flash is preferable to a piggyback solution. I like the idea of not having to mess with the ECU harnesses and if I were to break down and need a tow I'd only have to switch tunes not pull a piggyback module out.

However, the PROCede does seem to offer a lot of features. The Autotune is an attractive feature as is the ability to clear codes without a separate device.

Power-wise they seem pretty close, but there seems to be more dyno sheets available for the PROCede compared with the GIAC.

Both are respected companies and both are just about the same price. So no help there.

I am pretty stuck and would welcome evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that might help in forming a good decision.

In case it might sway comments on way or the other, I don't foresee myself doing any serious mods. I might one way go for a BMW Performance exhaust and/or a DP, but certainly not any time soon.

Thanks.
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      09-28-2010, 08:53 AM   #2
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FWIW, it really isn't difficult at all to (un)install the Procede after your first time. I can do it in under 20 minutes now without any issue or instructions.

If you do get any mods in the future, the Procede will autotune to those new mods and automatically increase power. With GIAC you would have to order (and pay for) a new flash.
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      09-28-2010, 09:24 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisherbln View Post
FWIW, it really isn't difficult at all to (un)install the Procede after your first time. I can do it in under 20 minutes now without any issue or instructions.

If you do get any mods in the future, the Procede will autotune to those new mods and automatically increase power. With GIAC you would have to order (and pay for) a new flash.





Here we go again.....


TS, do what is best for YOU and your situation. Consider what you are willing to put up with, the pro/cons of each.
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      09-28-2010, 09:30 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisherbln View Post
FWIW, it really isn't difficult at all to (un)install the Procede after your first time. I can do it in under 20 minutes now without any issue or instructions.

If you do get any mods in the future, the Procede will autotune to those new mods and automatically increase power. With GIAC you would have to order (and pay for) a new flash.
I've heard that it is easy to pull the procede(and other piggies for that matter). I don't see it as a problem for me either until you throw in the fact that some people have adverse conditions that could cause that 20 minutes to become 1 hour of hell and torture. IE if I break down on the side of the road in the middle of winter during a snow storm. I could get towed back to my house where there is no garage and I'm still stuck freezing my ass off trying to undo tiny pins.

If I lived in somewhere warm I would already have a piggyback.
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      09-28-2010, 09:34 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techlogik View Post



Here we go again.....


TS, do what is best for YOU and your situation. Consider what you are willing to put up with, the pro/cons of each.
I agree. I don't want to start another one of the tuner wars threads. GIAC does have the great advantage of not having to open the ECU at all and the Procede is a bit more adjustable.
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      09-28-2010, 09:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techlogik View Post



Here we go again.....


TS, do what is best for YOU and your situation. Consider what you are willing to put up with, the pro/cons of each.
I am not trying to start (I'm sure what would be the 10 millionth) debate. I was just hoping to get some prospective on what some pros and cons are.
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      09-28-2010, 09:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
I am not trying to start (I'm sure what would be the 10 millionth) debate. I was just hoping to get some prospective on what some pros and cons are.
I can give example of why I went with one over the other.. It may not be what makes one stand out over the other for you but here goes.

- like being able to monitor the quality of my gas (autotune). I have found some local stations serve up garbage - or what my car thinks is garbage.

- like the built in boost gauge. 335's are fragile and the more I can see into it, the better.
(lower boost, higher boost, etc) without adding one in the car.

- being able to see if I have a boost leak (mapping boost to target)

- Knowing that I'm on stock DME low boost settings until the car warms up.

- viewing intercooler efficiency

I also have the BT tool - which would mean I could swing to the other side at any time.

Both are fantastic bang for the buck - but it's really what matters to each user.
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      09-28-2010, 09:46 AM   #8
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The extra features of the PROcede make it worth it in my opinion. The chances that you would ever have to uninstall the tune on the side of the road are pretty small - but you will get very fast at it anyway.

It is so smooth - and you can adjust the smoothness of the power delivery now. Built in boost gauge, shift light, possible naturally aspirated mode in the future to boost gas mileage. All that stuff is awesome, and it's in addition to a great tune that makes lots of consistent smooth power.

Plus, when you consider the fact that you can resell the PROcede, it is much cheaper in the long run. (Assuming you sell it at some point, of course.)
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      09-28-2010, 09:50 AM   #9
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crap i thought was some nice race video... you have to decide yourself whats best for you... there is a ton of info on both.
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      09-28-2010, 10:04 AM   #10
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Thanks for all the input guys. And for not turning it into a flame war and making me look like a jacka$$.

Do you guys remove it when you go to the dealer? I was thinking I'd just put it in stock mode.
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      09-28-2010, 10:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
Thanks for all the input guys. And for not turning it into a flame war and making me look like a jacka$$.

Do you guys remove it when you go to the dealer? I was thinking I'd just put it in stock mode.
Yes, to be safe remove it. That is the only real PITA, but that is also why you get fast at doing it.
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      09-28-2010, 10:32 AM   #12
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For the money and performance, the Procede is best IMO. You can always turn around and sell it. The GIAC you can't. It is either there, or gets overwritten back to stock. Nothing can be transferred/gained back out of it. I just don't want a worse case scenario of being on the side of the road (even in FL hot/humid/raining) and the car drops over dead. Yes, even with a flash to be safe, it would need to be towed to your house/GIAC dealer and reverse the piggyback/Flash to stock.

But, if it is a HPFP...I would just switch to the stock GIAC map and let it be towed to the dealer with the flash installed. I doubt BMW is putting any effort into extra work with uploading DME data when it comes to some things, like a HPFP failure which happens so frequently, or certain things like electronics for warranty etc...the piggyback, anytime it goes in, even for an oil change, you need to remove the thing. It can be seen and found out easily. The GIAC flash, the local dealer has zero ability to detect a flash. BMW would have no reason to want a DME upload for routine fixes and maintenance IMO. I'll take my chances for now.

They each have their pros/cons. You just need to decide for yourself what you are willing to deal with to revert things back, or what features you want, or mods you are going to have etc...that fit your situation.

Good luck.
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      09-28-2010, 10:42 AM   #13
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Piggybacks are just fundamentally flawed. They mimic, guess and trick the ECU. They did not develop naturally, but to overcome the fact that the ECU software is inaccessible for most. Doesn't matter what features a tune has if you build it on a fundamentally flawed concept.
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      09-28-2010, 10:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita View Post
crap i thought was some nice race video... you have to decide yourself whats best for you... there is a ton of info on both.

thats what i thought as well!
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      09-28-2010, 10:46 AM   #15
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Personally, it's your call.
People are going to fight with their endless reasons for this...

I just made up my mind and went with Procede a week ago and the main reasons are:
-Procede has a lot of features (N/A mode with lower MPG along with TPM clear which I'm really interested)
-Continuous development and improvement by Vishnu team
-Procede is resale-able
-And the last thing is its self-tuning...

So, clearly Procede is what I'm looking for...
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      09-28-2010, 10:47 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
Piggybacks are just fundamentally flawed. They mimic, guess and trick the ECU. They did not develop naturally, but to overcome the fact that the ECU software is inaccessible for most. Doesn't matter what features a tune has if you build it on a fundamentally flawed concept.
Quite possibly true.

The dealer recently did some warranty work to replace a pump in my motor and had to reflash the ECU.
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      09-28-2010, 10:48 AM   #17
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Removal of a piggyback is all of 20 minutes if that . And no evidence will be left if done right.

I'm curious how a reflash is uninstalled on the spot if your car has to be towed? (serious question)

Last edited by Jeff@TopGearSolutions; 09-28-2010 at 11:38 AM.
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      09-28-2010, 11:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
Piggybacks are just fundamentally flawed. They mimic, guess and trick the ECU. They did not develop naturally, but to overcome the fact that the ECU software is inaccessible for most. Doesn't matter what features a tune has if you build it on a fundamentally flawed concept.
I use to think as well but never have seen any data or statistical proof showing so. If you have some please post it up.

Here is my reason for going Procede over the others.

1. Got a great deal from Vishnu, I could probably sell it for what I paid.

2. Controls timing over JB3. Looking over past threads it seems Burger Tuning ends up copying what Vishnu is doing, so why not go with the original.

3. Shiv is always coming out with cool features on board boost gauge, AFR gauge, Adjustable Shift lights, and now adjustable throttle mapping, data logging user adjustable settings, on the fly map switching.

4. Seemed like it took forever for GIAC to get their flash loader available so switching back to stock for dealer visits was not feasible at the time. And I hear the stock setting is not really stock, just stock like so could potentially be spotted by dealer.

5. I turn over cars a lot usually once a year. I can sell the Procede and recoup some money where as the tune you get $0.
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      09-28-2010, 11:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caradd View Post
1. Got a great deal from Vishnu, I could probably sell it for what I paid.
+1 Great resale. I bought new because of the upgrade special and the absolute lack of supply used.


Quote:
Originally Posted by caradd View Post
2. Controls timing over JB3. Looking over past threads it seems Burger Tuning ends up copying what Vishnu is doing, so why not go with the original.
+1 This is why I upgraded from JB3 to Vishnu. That and the wonderful methanol integration. Second to none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caradd View Post
3. Shiv is always coming out with cool features on board boost gauge, AFR gauge, Adjustable Shift lights, and now adjustable throttle mapping, data logging user adjustable settings, on the fly map switching.
+1 The hits and future copied features keep coming. Follow the leader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caradd View Post
4. Seemed like it took forever for GIAC to get their flash loader available so switching back to stock for dealer visits was not feasible at the time. And I hear the stock setting is not really stock, just stock like so could potentially be spotted by dealer.
Not potentially. I can say it is absolutely discoverable. I've seen it happen.

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Originally Posted by caradd View Post
5. I turn over cars a lot usually once a year. I can sell the Procede and recoup some money where as the tune you get $0.
+10,000! If Giac were say $250, it would be lots more compelling...assuming it was not dealer discoverable.
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      09-28-2010, 11:31 AM   #20
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Well, I thought people's first and foremost reason to buy a tune was the highest level of power, driveability and safety. But I see most of the reasons are related to keeping warranty. Keeing warranty while not doing your best to save your engine is a side effect of the leasing mentality. It's not ok, if you ask me.
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      09-28-2010, 11:32 AM   #21
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+1 on it being easier to remove a Procede than a GIAC flash... and even with the flash tune switcheroo thingie, which you pay extra for btw... as well as for any additional tunes... you can never go into stock mode. There is a near-stock mode, but it definitely isn't stock and it definitely is noticeable if the dealerships wants to find it
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      09-28-2010, 11:36 AM   #22
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one thing is clear...

no one will give you an unbiased opinion. -->>

every arguement is founded on the failing of the other... this is a train wreck waiting to happen.

candid observation:

it looks like the people who buy the GIAC are potentially going to keep their cars past the warranty period -- so its a investment into the car. its not looked at as a removable accessory, but integrated into the car. if this is true, then workability, not flexibility is the prime concern. does it work, is it proven, is it stable, do i need to interact with it?

some people who buy the piggyback style tune tend to look at the value of the tune after they are finished with the car, and move on to the next car, whether BMW or not. not really an investment but a power adder that can be removed to be sold at a later date. plus all the bells and whistle that some of the current tunes offer, that makes the drive a little more entertaining. plus you feel like you "know" more about your cars operating condition.

in a high risk mission critical situation, software which is used in the production environment, is stable -- load tested pounded with numerous concurrent transactions/connections -- and then there a cutting edge groups that work with a unstable platform, for the sake of pressing forward in technology, this may work, there may be a lot of patches and bugfixes applied hourly, daily, weekly.

it just depends on what you want for your money .. production or cutting edge --
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